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RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 11:42:36 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I tend not to have an issue with that, either.

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 11:46:48 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		References is sort of an old fashioned thing. When BDSM was secret and we used to meet via referrals, both parties came with references. Now, its no secret. As far as safety goes, there is a really good rule:

A listed phone number for address verification. Photo ID at the meet.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 12:12:15 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		OP: Not everyone is publicly open about their kink. Not everyone is going to be willing or even able to give references. I don't and won't and find the concept ridiculous. It's not a job interview, it's sex. Giving someone my prior sex partners info or allowing them to be contacted is just classless imo. Additionally, it's a measure that would give a false sense of security. I could have 10 people call you right now that have NEVER met me.

Slow down. Your own instincts and taking the time to actually get to know the person are your best bet. Do look him up on the net, although even then, there are going to be other people with his same name and the information on the net isn't exactly set up to distinguish between them. Meet him in public, always. Don't play on the first date. When you do play for the first time, be careful about restraints, gags, blindfolds, etc.

Yes there are nasty people out there, but avoiding them isn't all that difficult in my opinion. Think about what you are doing, think about what is best for you. Do not be bullied by roles in the negotiation phase. If they try that, ditch them and find someone that isn't an idiot.

The overraction of "danger" will have you hiding in your house with your hitachi 24/7 and that's no way to live. Use your common sense, you will be fine.

With regard to this guy, I am with LP, why would he be saying he will give them and then say no? The whole that doesn't matter unless we are doing something line doesn't fit...are you going to call these people from the bedroom? If he's acting sketchy, don't meet him and move on.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to CaramellDansen)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 12:15:24 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

The overraction of "danger" will have you hiding in your house with your hitachi 24/7 and that's no way to live. Use your common sense, you will be fine.



I agree, I have great references and I think they are stupid. However, the problem with relying on common sense is most people don't have any. If you don't tend to make good decisions, don't rely on your common sense till you do.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 12:17:40 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I always give out the phone numbers of women I have not put in the hospital.

I don't trust the others to say nice things about me.

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"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 12:30:23 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Hey I hear they have free sex toys there if you look hard enough!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 12:33:33 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		But I hear they make you wait till the stitches are out

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 1:02:10 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If you jusy say no, how do you ever meet anyone?


Okay, here's my problem.

This isn't a meet at a local munch, or even a hop skip and jump for coffee. She's making a 300 mile drive to meet someone she already has worries about.

Who here really thinks that "nothing" is going to happen after she's spent the last 5 hours driving, thinking about this Dom??? Either he is going to push for something more--or she is.

We still don't know how well she knows this guy; if she's insisting on refs, she probably doesn't know him all that well. Which is why I say, "don't do it".

January





_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 1:05:10 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ok.. in this case I agree.

Kinda rude to suggest she drive to begin with.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 1:06:13 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah...But I figure she is kind of desperate and really wants this shit to get going.

She is dumb to drive the 5 hours. It's a long way to go to have the guy change his mind and decide he would rather go fishing at the last minute.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 3:54:52 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaramellDansen

I have met a Dm who wants to meet me. he lives about 300 miles away, so it'll be a bit of a drive to meet him. i asked if he had any references and he's said yes. but now, when i asked for them, he keeps saying no and giving excuses. i even told him he could give them my personal # and they could call from a blocked/private number. still he says no; i don't need them unless we are "doing something" besides meeting and my asking for references just to meet is a red flag.

now here is my question: is my behavior a red flag or is his?


Caramell,

You are in Baker, about two hours south of Bakersfield which has a decent size BDSM group and about two hours north of Los Angeles and a HUGE bdsm community. My advice would be to contact those groups and get involved with the social and educational aspects before starting on the physical ones. Even if that isn't appealing, you are likely to find vastly better and more skilled partners than some guy hittin on anonymous girls on the internet.

(in reply to CaramellDansen)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 4:24:48 PM   
scottishjason


Posts: 23
Joined: 6/25/2008
Status: offline 		Yes in my opinion, it is a huge red flag.  I think I am very fortunate that I live where I live because I don’t run into this issue.  The SF bay area has a lot of BDSM clubs that you can go to and meet people.  We even have kink friendly coffee shops.   What I would recommend is that you explain to this dom that any and all D/s relationships start off with trust.  You currently don’t feel that he is giving you enough to trust him so until that happens you should not meet.   This is just my opinion.

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 4:52:12 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaramellDansen

I have met a Dm who wants to meet me. he lives about 300 miles away, so it'll be a bit of a drive to meet him. i asked if he had any references and he's said yes. but now, when i asked for them, he keeps saying no and giving excuses. i even told him he could give them my personal # and they could call from a blocked/private number. still he says no; i don't need them unless we are "doing something" besides meeting and my asking for references just to meet is a red flag.

now here is my question: is my behavior a red flag or is his?


Caramell,

You are in Baker, about two hours south of Bakersfield which has a decent size BDSM group and about two hours north of Los Angeles and a HUGE bdsm community. My advice would be to contact those groups and get involved with the social and educational aspects before starting on the physical ones. Even if that isn't appealing, you are likely to find vastly better and more skilled partners than some guy hittin on anonymous girls on the internet.

Well, well, well.  What do you know about that?

OP, I happen to attend the Bakersfield munch.  It's held the third Saturday of every month.  The meet is held at a public restaurant with a play party that follows at a separate location.  There is usually a demo held that night.  They also have a discussion munch once a month, as well other occasions to get together.

Should you ever be interested in taking Michael's suggestion, drop Me a note on the other side.  I'll be more than happy to meet you there.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 4:59:23 PM   
InControl754


Posts: 38
Joined: 12/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CaramellDansen

I have met a Dm who wants to meet me. he lives about 300 miles away, so it'll be a bit of a drive to meet him. i asked if he had any references and he's said yes. but now, when i asked for them, he keeps saying no and giving excuses. i even told him he could give them my personal # and they could call from a blocked/private number. still he says no; i don't need them unless we are "doing something" besides meeting and my asking for references just to meet is a red flag.

now here is my question: is my behavior a red flag or is his?


Maybe he had a falling out with his only reference, and would rather not start off trying to explain how the relationship soured. 

Jesus Christ, all the people saying you are unsafe meeting in public "on his turf" are the crazy ones.  You'd be just as unsafe meeting someone in public "on your turf" if he was going to do something like pull an Uzi.  If you don't feel safe meeting someone in public who can't give references, lock your door and stay on the internet where you are safe and only internet viruses can infect you.  Why take a chance that you might actually develop a REAL life outside a computer chat room? 

(in reply to CaramellDansen)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 6:48:18 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Why take a chance that you might actually develop a REAL life outside a computer chat room?


Your ridicule is a big red flag to me... This comment smacks of, "if the OP is scared, she's not a true submissive." That doesn't make sense to me at all. Subs are not always aggressive, risking-taking sort of folk. The OP is preparing to travel 300 miles for a supposed non-physical, non-sexual meet-up with a stranger. Her worries are her worries. Generally having faith in womankind, I suspect her intuition and/or common sense is telling her plenty of unsavory stuff about this Dom, and she is using his reference denial as an excuse not to meet.

The OP might not feel the same way about the next Dom who wants to meet up. So the fact that she may be rejecting one person hardly means she's going to miss out on that "REAL" life.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to InControl754)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 6:57:44 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with SimplyMichael, that "references" from people you don't know are useless; Some of the biggest most dangerous freaks I have met were at dungeons;

Also, as Laurell pointed out not everyone is a public kinkster; many people practice BDSM privately, and no matter how noble a person they are, they just don't have anyone who can say, "yeah, Bob is a real freaky top and wields a mean butt plug, but he is trustworthy"

OP, I think the best advice here is that there is something about him that makes you uneasy, and I would go with that. What would be the harm in chatting by phone a while, and seeing how things go? My experience is that wierd and dangerous people "out" themselves after a while. No guarantees, but its one way of screening. And after all that, a meet over coffee at a public place isn't so bad an idea, references or no.

(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 10:50:23 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		A warning sign to me would be the reference of the ex Detroit mayor <soon to be back in jail>and the soon to be ex Detroit cop who is accused of this past weekend of shooting a 7 year old.... and a last year of pointing his gun at a infant among others. Ya just have to be careful who you list as references.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 10:50:44 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		Greetings Pact....

If you get to the Chicago area let me know and maybe you, Jefff and I can make it an insane, 3-way nutso, references included meeting. <grins> Besides, that way we can use each other as references that we actually exist and are at least harmless in some ways. I am certain that we can come up with some if we work hard enough. <grins evilly>

Be well....

Malkinius

_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com    The goal is community.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Asking for references... - 5/18/2010 11:21:51 PM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline 		{fast reply}

Greetings all....

Look....some of you are getting to the point of being simply ridiculous. First off....assuming that any dominant any submissive meets (without going through elaborate security measures) is going to do something illegal, dangerous or have her end up in a barrel is insulting to everyone of us whether or not we would actually do this. It is also wrong in most cases. Yes, there are bad people out there. Some of them are obvious and some are not. The stupid ones are easy to spot unless they get someone so enamored of them they can not see the problems. Simply having someone outside take a look at what is going on for an objective view will spot most of the fakes and dangerous ones. The chances someone will push too hard or just do something stupid out of ignorance or carelessness are much greater. The really good fakes and predators will not be easily spotted because they will know all the right things to say and do....and do them. That's right...they will play it straight until they get someone where they can no longer get away and then do whatever.

I do not claim to be a Dom or part of the BDSM scene because except for posting on some BDSM forums like this, I am not. However, I could walk into any munch or event and sound like an old hand because I know all the right words, things to say and do, general protocols and can discourse at great length on subjects kinky. In other words, I can probably fake it and sound better and more experienced than people who have been doing this for a few years. Need fifteen minutes on the differences between SSC and RACK, I can do it. I can give someone all the safety precaution lectures, safe call instructions (and have them followed), etc. I have done that a number of times. I then point out that being able to do that makes me much more dangerous than those who can't. Why? Because, as I said, I know all the right things to say and do. If I was a predator, they couldn't tell it. I sound and act just the opposite. (Well....to the extent that most dominants are predators, I am one. <grins>)

My point here is that the only way to be certain about someone is to check them out. References are one way to do that. They are not perfect. As Pact pointed out, having other people direct someone to someone who can give a reference is a good thing. It works. It is an independent check against what someone says about themselves. I had one girl who was planning on spending two weeks with me for training contact long time and frequent posters on another forum here to ask about me and whether or not she should do what was planned. She also checked with other people in other places for the same question. I have met some of those people in person, a few several times. Some I have known online for years. The end result was that she trusted them enough to come and train with me. She had been on the board for a couple of years as well so we were all known to each other. That did help. I do keep pointing out to people that the more track record someone has the more likely they are to be something similar to what they say they are. The more personal information they volunteer the same thing. The less someone says about themselves or lets be known about themselves the less trustworthy they are whichever side of the collar or flogger they are on.

Be well all....

Malkinius


_____________________________

A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com    The goal is community.

(in reply to Malkinius)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Asking for references... - 5/19/2010 12:42:31 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		~fast reply~

OK, I readily admit that none of this is my gig but... wow... just wow. I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Have we gotten to some sort of mad max post apocalyptic future where people are animals? This whole mindset, of course, is not limited to the BDSM world. Just yesterday I was watching TV and saw a commercial for a service you can subscribe to so that you can run background checks on people. The specific use case was dating. Now that I think on it, that little checkout girl at the grocery store today sure did look cute and harmless, but she had a certain glint in her eye. Maybe I should call her employer and get a full background check before I feel safe shopping in the Albertsons again? Where exactly does this mindset end?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Malkinius)
Profile   Post #: 60
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