Past Intruding On the Present (Full Version)

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lovingpet -> Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 6:34:09 PM)

I was thinking today about submissive people for whom the past can't really be the past yet.  In some cases this is in the form of various personality defense mechanisms that were put in place due to any number of critical life events.  It might also include things of a pstd nature such as triggers, flooding, and flashbacks.  I don't know too many who wouldn't want very much for these things to be behind them, but these types of wounds go deep and take a long time to heal.  Provided the person has been working on these issues, I am sure most dominant folks could be patient with such areas and be of as much help and support as they possibly can.

Clearly, this will impact everything from day to day dealings to possible reactions to play.  Add in a few additional stressors and it can get even more difficult to keep a handle on.  This can be mitigated fairly easily (definitely a matter of perspective and dependent upon the extent and type of problem) when behind closed doors.  Privately, both can take the time and work through most anything at their pace, their own way, and with no pressures from outside observers critiquing their every move.

It gets a whole lot more hairy in a public setting.  In this case, I am only talking about a basic "vanilla" setting.  A panic attack at home is far different than dealing with a person in such a state in the middle of a department store.  The issues surrounding dynamic obviously aren't necessarily at play (though there is the possibility that someone that knows them in that context locally may see and judge).  Still there are ways that were available in private that won't go over so well in this setting.  Perhaps it is a sharp tug of hair or clothing or collar that pulls them back to the present or some other thing that would be frowned upon as abusive. If these are most effective privately, it could be a serious mess once in a "vanilla" public.

Then there is yet another senario.  Such things surfacing in a context of a "lifestyle" event around other likeminded people.  Needless to say, a couple with such a thing in play have probably discussed it more than a few times and have even dealt with in some fashion at some point.  They are aware of what is going on (whether or not there is a way to stop it).  Unfortunately, there is a room full of observers who are not privy to this information and are watching every move of each.  They see such things as skiddishness, hyperactivity, resistence, apparent disobedience, and more from the submissive.  They see a dominant who is either having to handle the "fragile creature" roughly or appears to be bowing to the submissive's every whim, apparently abandoning the submissive to bring in some kind of reinforcements, and attempts to stabilize the situation that actually wind up being disruptive.  In other words, it looks extremely bad on both people.

True, they need only worry about each other, but there is something else that concerns me.  Based on this outsiders' view, these people are at risk of being ostracized from the "community" available to them.  This should be a place of resources and support and clearly they may be desperately needed.  Instead, now there is a couple dealing with something quite complex and difficult who has been cut off from a major source of help.  Though other options are available, going through kink aware professionals would be best and more beneficial.  They have no access.  The cycle repeats at some point and the isolation deepens.

My question, and I guess this post could have fit on several different sections, is what methods have worked well for you, as a submissive, to deal with such issues?  Not all have these kinds of things at work, so I know this isn't necessarily a thread for everyone.  How do you do your part to shield yourself and your dominant partner from judgement from observers, be it in a "lifestyle" setting or a "vanilla" one?  Those on the dominant side, what have you been able to do to help your submissive as they worked through such things?  How have you been able to adapt your handling of situations based on the environment in which it occurred?  Thanks for the input.

lovingpet   



AnimusRex -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 6:50:16 PM)

Even though I am a D type, I will arrogantly chime in with my opinion.

If someone is so scarred, so traumatized by past events as to be unable to live a normal life; if their psychic wounds were so deep that it impedes fulfilling the obligations and responsibilities of being a functioning partner to someone...then I would ask why they are looking for a partner in the first place.

We all have emotional wounds, scars and bruises from past events- but relationships carry responsibility- especially if such a relationship involves producing children.

Why would a Dominant- hell, why would any person- want to go through life with an emotional cripple strapped to their back? I don't think it is possible to be both shrink/ lover, or parent/ spouse.

What does this limping ticking timebomb of a person, who might flip out at a moment's notice, bring to a relationship? What do they offer to the long-suffering and patient other?

The best, most loving advice I could give someone like you describe is fix yourself, heal, do whatever therapy or work is needed to come to terms with your past...and then, only then, go looking for a life partner.



littlewonder -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 6:55:26 PM)

When I was still in a "fragile" state due to trauma in my life I refused to get involved with anyone. I did not go out on dates, did not have casual sex, did not play with anyone, I even shyed away from making new friends because I did not want to be a burden on anyone else and felt I needed to take time for myself, to heal myself.

I worked on becoming stable, cleaning up my life and creating the type of life I wanted to lead.

My advice...seek therapy, take time for yourself and heal thyself.





lovingpet -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 6:59:38 PM)

In some cases, these folks are already established relationships that wind up presented with repressed memories surfacing.  That is one possible way this could happen, and the one most present in my mind.  Everyone has things they struggle with, but these issues just happen to be more visible to the rest of the world.  I am not talking about full blown, needs to be in a padded cell kind of issues.  I would think that kind of intensive work would be done inpatient where such things as I described wouldn't be an issue.  Usually there are a handful of very strong, but not always present triggers.  For example, if the person was sexually abused by being forced to give oral sex to a man, he/she may have an extremely overdeveloped gag reflex and, if the gagging is prolonged, bring back memories or body sensations.  I don't think one can say that people who have difficult pasts on which they are working are not capable or worthy of good relationships.  It just means that there will be more hurdles to cross on occasion.  I would think the overall person to be much more important and what I am willing to stay for in hard times.  Hard times don't last forever.  Good relationships stand the test of time and circumstances.

lovingpet



Andalusite -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 7:16:26 PM)

In the context of play, I've had difficulties with a few things due to bad experiences in the past. I was very up-front about them at the beginning of the relationship, and we were able to work through some of them, or at least make progress. Others weren't important to him, so they weren't an issue.

If someone has panic attacks or is otherwise making a scene in vanilla public places, uncontrollably, they need to see a therapist or possibly consider medication to help them until they can develop better coping mechanisms. It's possible that hypnotic suggestion or a vanilla-safe cue could be associated with the same feelings as tugging on the collar, but frankly, I think those issues are outside the scope of what a Dominant can be expected to fix.



lovingpet -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 7:22:57 PM)

I did say in the OP that all this was provided the person was working on the issue via counseling and any other necessary method.  I am not at all saying it is upon the dominant to "fix" the submissive.  I have more than a few times on the boards strongly advised AGAINST such things.  I do think any intimate partner is in a position to provide support and at least a first responder type care for their significant other.  In that support role they may find things that help quell or end such episodes.  There's not a chance that I'm condoning bdsm as therapy in and of itself or placing either partner in the position to be counselor or md. 

lovingpet



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 7:34:07 PM)

Wow I wouldn't want to be part of a public group that was so harsh and quick to judgement that they'd consider not allowing us to be there just because they saw reactions they were uncomfortable with.

It's the truth that a tops reputation is built on the bottoms they play with, but just because a scene goes wonky (and we've all had that happen at some point eventually) doesn't mean it's anyones fault or that they need to be kicked out because of it!

If you really feel the risk is that likely and the people are that stupid, then it might be best not to do public play at all. There are things I don't do in public because the energy doesn't work right for me.



Andalusite -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 7:38:21 PM)

Oh, I absolutely agree that in any relationship, people should be supportive of their partner. For that matter, if a Dominant suffers from PTSD (for example from serving in the military), I think it's perfectly reasonable for him and the submissive to come up with something that helps him refocus. I just wanted to emphasise that it wasn't a substitute for therapy/etc.

My Master and I recently split up, but when we were together, he'd sometimes sneak in a subtle tug on my hair while hugging me, or hold my wrist rather than my hand. Nothing that would freak out the nillas, but it wasn't in response to the kind of public freak-out that you describe, which would put all eyes on them in the first place. If at all possible, of course the submissive should warn the dominant if they are aware that an episode is beginning, so they can get somewhere more private. Since a big tug on hair or clothes works to help them refocus, I do think it might be worthwhile to explore and find other things that have a similar effect, but aren't as noticeable to other people. I'm just nervous that a hypnotic suggestion or some such to associate a different action with the same response might possibly be counterproductive, or even damaging.

In a public play scenario, hair pulling shouldn't raise any eyebrows.[:D]



DarkSteven -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 7:49:45 PM)

It happens.  I've had subs go into flashbacks in a scene.  I simply stop the scene and comfort the sub.  If anyone looks down on me for that, screw 'em.



lovingpet -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 7:51:39 PM)

I don't have a specific instance in mind, but I am thinking it could just be that the couple are made to feel very uncomfortable and eventually withdraw.  I agree that ousting somebody would be an excessive reaction.

I agree that one or so bad scenes does not a poor dominant make.  I just was wondering about ways to keep the issue as private as possible when in public.  I don't necessarily care about saving face with strangers, but it is important to keep those same situations from becoming more negative in the future and become a trigger in and of themselves.  That helps no one. 

lovingpet  



youascend -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/24/2010 9:06:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Even though I am a D type, I will arrogantly chime in with my opinion.

If someone is so scarred, so traumatized by past events as to be unable to live a normal life; if their psychic wounds were so deep that it impedes fulfilling the obligations and responsibilities of being a functioning partner to someone...then I would ask why they are looking for a partner in the first place.

We all have emotional wounds, scars and bruises from past events- but relationships carry responsibility- especially if such a relationship involves producing children.

Why would a Dominant- hell, why would any person- want to go through life with an emotional cripple strapped to their back? I don't think it is possible to be both shrink/ lover, or parent/ spouse.

What does this limping ticking timebomb of a person, who might flip out at a moment's notice, bring to a relationship? What do they offer to the long-suffering and patient other?

The best, most loving advice I could give someone like you describe is fix yourself, heal, do whatever therapy or work is needed to come to terms with your past...and then, only then, go looking for a life partner.


Very well said. This does not sound like a D/s, "session" / public play issue but a life issue. Bad things happen in life. There are dissapointments. Things don't always go your way. Things happen unexpectedly. There are accidents. People change.

For your health and your sanity you have to be able to take the good with the bad. This may require a conscious effort.



DesFIP -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/25/2010 5:05:27 AM)

AR, I have occasional panic attacks. It does not mean that I am so scarred and traumatized that I cannot live a normal life. It means that just like he has diabetes and we have to schedule healthy snacks every four hours into our day, we also have to schedule not doing things that will trigger my attacks.

You don't drag someone afraid of crowds out into a mosh pit. And if that is one of your favorite activities, then you aren't compatible. As far as lp's question goes, I presume that if something happened to cause a panic attack, you would remove them from the situation and go sit somewhere quietly, holding them, until they could talk about it. When they happen at the mall or I feel one pending, I go sit in the car until I can continue.

And that you would mention to your friends that unfortunately watching the needle scene triggered PTSD in her. And your friends would understand and would enlighten anyone making unwarranted judgments.

But really, if other people making unwarranted judgments about you is that important to the dominant, I'd wonder if he were over his past issues sufficiently to be in a relationship. Because I have a fragile child with a severe mood disorder and I've had people make deliberately loud and nasty comments about her. I either ignore them or turn to them and tell them they are very stupid to not be able to recognize a diagnosed illness when they see it and that I am very proud of her for handling it as well as she has. I see no reason that a dominant could slap others down in just that manner when they are being deliberately rude and hurtful.



domiguy -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/25/2010 5:21:18 AM)

"The communty"...."Like minded people"


What does this mean?

....A room full of people that have an interest in bdsm or kinky sex are not like minded and if that is the basis for developing a community then there should be no wars because we are all in the community of oxygen breathing, dna sharing critters. Apparently that is not enough of a draw to stop us from killing each other.

Your posts tire me. They border on fairly creepy kind of shit. They are really pathetic.

bdsm is not a cure or the road to salvation to cure your mental health issues.

What the fuck is wrong with people? You play in public and you are concerned about how others feel about your mental health deficiencies?

You are concerned that when in a 'nilla environment, like the dept. store, a pull to the hair or a slap across the face is not an acceptable remedy for a panic attack? Where on Earth did you ever get that silly little notion?


People out here are really fucked up....You are one of them. Get help. Stop posting. Seek professionally help.

While I think that a tug on the hair and a rousing round of anal is the cure to most every ailment. You need just a touch more attention and treatment.

Have you looked into leaches?



LadyPact -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/25/2010 3:47:35 PM)

The thing that occurs to Me is, if we were talking about private, rather than public play, and a post was created about a Dominant specifically introducing 'triggers' to bring on such a thing as panic attacks, this thread would be flooded with responses about how destructive the Dominant was in regard to the submissive's well being.  The Dominant in such a scenario would be called everything from untrustworthy, to reckless, to every other negative that you can think of in the amount of regard the person in charge had for the submissive.

Now, put this in perspective in regard to a public play space.  There are definitely some things that you will find in public play that can/will trigger some individuals.  That is just plain the way it is.  From there, you have two choices.  One, intentionally go to the location where you know a trigger is a potential outcome.  Two, avoid the triggers by not attending.

When it comes to option two, I'm going to be very frank here.  I don't honestly believe that it is the responsibility of the "community" to automatically be made the guardian of every person who walks in the door.  No group is responsible for whatever that adult brings with them.  We aren't there to sing songs about we are all one, jumping over each other so we can make the newcomer the most important person in the room, or any other thing that has to do with coddling or catering to anyone.  When I go to the club, I'm there for Me.  I'm there to have a good time, most likely to indulge in My sadism, see some friends, and play on equipment that I don't have at home.  It's not some kind of humanitarian mission that some folks want to make it out to be.

My boy has ADHD and PTSD from his military service.  One thing that can trigger him is the cracking of long whips.  This being the case, he is not required to acompany Me to whip demonstations.  If someone is scening with a whip in a public play space, he will ask Me for permission to go to another area.  If it were worse than what it is, I may, in My authority, decide that public play would not be good for him until he made more progress in this area.  That would be My responsibilty to make that decision for what is best for him as his Mistress.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/25/2010 3:53:26 PM)

Actually I'd support a ban for all whip cracking indoors, double fines if you aren't actually cracking it in a scene.



LadyPact -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/25/2010 3:55:02 PM)

Ohhhhh no you don't!  Do you have any idea of how long it took Me to learn how to NOT crack the damn thing?


ETA - I've been a bit remiss in welcoming you back, LA.  It's good to see you around here again.



catize -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/25/2010 4:28:05 PM)

quote:

What does this limping ticking timebomb of a person, who might flip out at a moment's notice, bring to a relationship? What do they offer to the long-suffering and patient other?


One does not have to be a Bundle O' Issues for something like that to happen. We may not even know something could be triggered—until it is! ! About 6 months ago, S inadvertently caused great emotional stress for me. Neither one of us were aware this was a danger zone, so to speak. He stopped everything for a few minutes, helped me get back on track, and he moved on to something else. I am fairly resilient emotionally, and I trust him. So I bounced back quickly and we waited until later in the day to try to figure out what had happened.
I love the intensity, but along with that, there is the potential for some not-so-fun fall out. It is not the end of the world if both can keep it in perspective. For me, I hate crying for emotional reasons in front of another person—it's a pride thing and I need to get over myself! His matter of fact and very calm response was helpful to that end. It also amazed me when he told me how good it made him feel to be the one present when that wall came down.



AquaticSub -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/27/2010 3:47:41 PM)

~Fast Reply~

I've found an easy way to avoid judgement is to be very open and honest about what is happening. Should something trigger an emotional reaction and someone question it, why shouldn't I be honest about it?

If I, for some reason, decide that it's too private to share and explain, than I probably shouldn't be in play parties where - not only can I not control the enviroment - but I know people are going to be doing all sorts of play. I have seen things at play parties that disturbed me greatly personally. My reaction is my issue and I could just attend munches and socials with no play.



NuevaVida -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/27/2010 6:38:07 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~

Well I don't play in public, but I'm also not one of those perfect people who has no hang ups and who doesn't occasionally have anxiety over something that triggers a past trauma. 

It's rare, but when it has happened, it hasn't been during play.  Hell, the last time it happened had to do with loading the dishwasher.  But when the anxiety came on, I knew what it was, and why it was happening, so I went to the bathroom to deal with it since his daughter was home. 

I'm pretty capable of being in a relationship.  He doesn't feel burdened by the issues that occasionally come up.  Hell, he's human too, and sometimes has his own issues come up.  We're in a relationship. We deal with issues together.   We're not too concerned about what others might have to say about how we conduct ourselves in this relationship. 

I actually liked the OP, because I think it brings to light, in general, that we really don't know what's going on within the confines of a relationship, and it's really none of our business, if it's not disrupting us ("us" in general).  That's what I got out of it, anyway.



Bobanna -> RE: Past Intruding On the Present (5/27/2010 8:28:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

When I was still in a "fragile" state due to trauma in my life I refused to get involved with anyone. I did not go out on dates, did not have casual sex, did not play with anyone, I even shyed away from making new friends because I did not want to be a burden on anyone else and felt I needed to take time for myself, to heal myself.

I worked on becoming stable, cleaning up my life and creating the type of life I wanted to lead.

My advice...seek therapy, take time for yourself and heal thyself.

I am with you.  I did the exact same thing ...took a BIG time out from being involved with anyone because I had enough sense to know that I could bring nothing productive or positive into a relationship at that time.  Though I did visit my friends and I'm thankful they were there for me and helped me get through it !  As a few have mentioned, we all go through difficulties in life, and I think even in a  D/s relationship or vanilla one for that matter ... if there are going to be more bad times than good times because of the constant actions/choices of the partner regardless of the reasons,(past trama in this instance) the glue may not be strong enough to hold the relationship together for a long period of time.  This kind of thing really has the potential of wearing the stronger partner down to the point where its not worth the stress.  Love usually is not enough when you are constantly walking around on needles waiting for the next time the dam is going to break.
Never mind bringing it out into public/public play ... I would think you would have to have to really question yourself  why you would even consider bringing someone who had the potential to have some kind of nervous breakdown in front of a group of people in the first place !  They most likely dont need to be there.



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