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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/27/2010 8:43:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

C'est très dommage, oui!

Actually Aynne88, you have Hollywood to thank for the rest of the world wanting to be American, but how accurate is Hollywood's representation of America? ;-)

- LA

Sucky. Just that. Like I said, I don't get it, I just see it, and I am probably the last person to be a poster child for the US of A. Don't tell the others.

.

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/27/2010 8:46:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
I am interested after reading various articles how the different people in the world view the rest of the world, what is their perception of the others ?

Need I say more?

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/27/2010 8:57:49 PM

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Seems like ya'll furrenners are a lot more interested in us than we are in you. Hell, the tone of the OP almost makes it sound like there is a value judgement being made about NOT being a busybody.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 5/27/2010 8:59:09 PM >

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 1:26:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
We don't care as long as it doesn't affect us. …
But is that view a fair view, is it correct of the majority of Americans in America today?

As an American, I honestly don't think so. Admittedly, I'm biased. I grew up in Silicon Valley and then went to a liberal school on the other coast where they liked to import people from around the world. My mother lived in a small African village for a couple of years. I loved "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?" as a kid, and my interest didn't stop there. But, from my experiences, the idea that most of us are "ugly Americans" utterly ignorant of, and apathetic toward, the larger world just really does not mesh with my perceptions.

I think it's human nature to spend more time on things that affect you, and the size, geography, and power of this country do sort of insulate us some from perceived outside effects. Perhaps as a result, the education system through secondary school does a lousy job teaching world history and foreign languages. News coverage of international events without significant impact on the US is somewhat muted. Most are probably ignorant of the intricacies of politics in foreign countries, but I suspect that's hardly unique to the US. Despite all that, I actually feel we have somehow managed a decent cultural awareness and sensitivity and, in some ways, I think that's more important. Again, this is probably biased some by where I grew up, but the area has considerable diversity and virtually everyone seems to welcome it. Appreciation for the larger world sort of filters in naturally from that. Vehement anti-immigration and isolationist stuff get press, but it doesn't reflect what I've seen in practice at all.

I know many people with very broad perspectives and impressive knowledge of the world beyond the borders of the US. I've also run into a number I felt had a rather provincial knowledge beyond those same borders. I haven't met many who I felt didn't care though. Given an opportunity to learn something about another country or culture, most are more than just open to it – they are genuinely curious. It may not be something they actively seek out very often, but they do become interested and concerned. Somewhat oblivious would describe them better than the callous, complacent indifference the statement seems to imply.

Perhaps my perspective would be different if I grew up someplace in, say, the Midwest. The college I attended drew fairly evenly from around the country, though, and the attitudes of others were all pretty similar. It was admittedly a bit self-selecting. Still, I think my experiences aren't too far from the norm for the Bay Area at least – and that's something like 7 million people.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 1:28:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
But in all sincerity, the Americans that I've gotten to know have a much broader perspective of the world. Unfortunately, they are becoming the minority.

Really? May I ask why you feel that way? I actually think the country is becoming more cognizant of the rest of the world. When I have encountered negative or parochial attitudes, it's almost exclusively been in members of older generations. I held off on replying to this until I could ask some people who have had more time to make personal observations but, when I asked, they also felt awareness of the rest of the world had increased markedly in their lifetimes.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 6:24:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
But in all sincerity, the Americans that I've gotten to know have a much broader perspective of the world. Unfortunately, they are becoming the minority.

Really? May I ask why you feel that way? I actually think the country is becoming more cognizant of the rest of the world. When I have encountered negative or parochial attitudes, it's almost exclusively been in members of older generations. I held off on replying to this until I could ask some people who have had more time to make personal observations but, when I asked, they also felt awareness of the rest of the world had increased markedly in their lifetimes.

I don't have any data, but rather just impressions. I get these impressions from perusing American media, talking with Americans, including the family I have there. Perhaps there is no trend about *becoming more of a minority*, perhaps there just always was a minority.

- LA

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 6:27:45 AM

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quote:

We don't care as long as it doesn't affect us

Isn't one opposite of that: "We feel free to meddle in things that don't concern us"?

Add to the quoted sentence a second principle- Good fences make good neighbors- and I think we have the basics of an excellent foreign policy.

And not just for the U.S.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 6:37:47 AM

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Shallow- I don't see it quite that way.

Here is PA- people who live from across the river are- "foreign". as are new comers. Unless your great great grand pappy founded the town- you are more of a guest then a local.

the further out one goes the less interest in it- as it is "over there".

So provincialism is rampant in rural PA.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 6:48:22 AM

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Through jaded glasses

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 11:33:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

C'est très dommage, oui!

Actually Aynne88, you have Hollywood to thank for the rest of the world wanting to be American, but how accurate is Hollywood's representation of America? ;-)

- LA

This is all bollocks really.

If you go somewhere like Tokyo....you'll find a roughly equal presence of French....English.....Italian...and US culture.

I think Germany and France have a weird love hate relationship with the US. Their newspapers are full of stories of the great satan yet when an American president shows up they're out worshipping him. All a bit strange to an Englishman as we think you're all right...nothing special.....not good....nor bad.......never in a million years would we turn out in numbers to welcome a president. I think when Obama came there was an old bloke and his dog who went to say hello. And I know for a fact that when Bush came....because he came to a place near where I'm from......people were mightily pissed off that the polis had blocked the road so they couldn't get to the shop for a pint of milk.

People I know like US films....well the decent ones because a lot of them are shite......but that's about it...you're never mentioned really...which is partly due to geography. To the Northern English....even London is on a different planet let alone some country thousands of miles away.

Gotta tell you....you seem a decent enough lot but you ain't that special....and as a famous Englishman once said: "they've got the moneybags; we've got the brains".....and that should tell you something about the fact that in no way shape or form are you seen as anything special in this small corner of the world.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 11:42:24 AM

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I think Germany and France have a weird love hate relationship with the US./snip

Same thing with factions of America itself over the direction of the country./

We exist- in an effort to save extended western civilization from itself. - So-- we ARE special.

(says Larouch)

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 11:47:40 AM

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http://larouchepac.com/search/google?cx=003993789013424804052%3Axe-pmsvn7bw&cof=FORID%3A11&query=to+save+extended+european+civilization&op=Search&form_build_id=form-890f5c372cc66393d524cae5a677a45f&form_id=google_cse_results_searchbox_form#1394

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 1:30:38 PM

kdsub

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We, meaning Americans, are you...a mirror of yourself except the people behind the mirror in the US are stronger of character on average. Their genes are passed to us containing the strength and bravery that enabled them to take their families thousands of miles into a wilderness and build a great nation.

Think of what that took...would you do it today?

We were then as today warriors molded from adversity that make their future rather then following others. This of course means we often come off as arrogant and aggressive but these traits are built into our minds by evolution.

Our melting pot really works if not with some friction. We get the best…the bravest…the smartest of other civilizations who have flocked here for freedom and opportunity.

Yes we bitch and moan about immigrants of all nationalities but these very immigrants inject new vitality into the American dream.

We are you…the better part

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/28/2010 1:39:33 PM >

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 1:52:07 PM

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Methinks Elisabella's map is pretty much spot-on. And I find myself in agreement with LadyEllen's first post.

I have no tolerance for flag-waving jingoistic American Exceptionalists. They tend to be uneducated, untravelled, uncultured morons of the first order, barely suitable for menial labor.

I have been to 37 states, including Alaska and Hawaii, Puerto Rico (2x), Mexico (about 30x), Canada (about 10x) Costa Rica, Morocco, Gibraltar, Spain, Hungary, Belgium (2x), Luxembourg, Austria, Liechtenstein,, Netherlands (3x), Germany (3x), England (2x), France (3x), and Switzerland. People pretty much want the same things everywhere: meaningful work, a good education and environment for their kids, good healthcare, freedom from fear (of getting shot or mugged, growing old in poverty, etc.) By and large, people in most of Europe have these things. We in the US have many of those things, too, except that our social safety net is seen as a burden by those who would rather spend money on wars and new military toys rather than Grandma's old age. For that, I piss in their mothers' milk.

If I could afford it, I'd live in Europe in a heartbeat. I already speak some German, and have rented a flat and lived in Munich for 5 weeks, so I know I can get by quite easily.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 7:41:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

C'est très dommage, oui!

Actually Aynne88, you have Hollywood to thank for the rest of the world wanting to be American, but how accurate is Hollywood's representation of America? ;-)

- LA

This is all bollocks really.

Let me rephrase this. Not everyone wants to be American, but from my experience, foreigners that have wanted to be American have based their impression of what America is on the images portrayed by Hollywood.

Better?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/28/2010 7:53:08 PM

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I view the rest of the world with interest. I hope to visit much of it before I die, and I wish other nations well, as long as they pursue peace.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/29/2010 12:03:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Let me rephrase this. Not everyone wants to be American, but from my experience, foreigners that have wanted to be American have based their impression of what America is on the images portrayed by Hollywood.

Better?

- LA

Better in the sense that only you can account for your experience.

I've never met anyone who wants to be American....and I've travelled to a fair few countries.....I'm not exactly Michael Palin....but I've done ok.

I think you're seriously misunderstanding the indoctrination that happens in every country around the world.....the objective being 'love of country'. It can't be any other way considering defence is somewhere approaching the top of most agendas. Americans aren't the only ones who consider their country to be the best and they're not the only ones with half-baked soundbites such as "the American Dream"....we have "land of hope and glory....mother of the free".....just as ridiculous all the same.

If you mean because people go to live in the US it means they want to be American? Well that would mean that there are far more British who want to be Canadian or Aussie as far more choose to emigrate to those two countries than the US....but they retain their British identity. And we have so many people coming into this country that this island is swamped......that doesn't mean all of these people want to be British....it means they're searching for an improved standard of living.

In my view.....reading these boards.....the British and the Americans are similar in one respect and dissimilar in another....

1) There seems to be a comparatively high number of people in both countries who think their country is a cut above the rest.

2) Where the British and Americans seem to depart is in that Americans want to be liked by other people.......they want to be seen as a special country........whereas the British really couldn't care less about what other people think....and I suppose that comes with a quiet confidence in being British.

But to answer the OP......in my experience....I've never met an American in person who has a limited world view......but then the Americans I've met have been over here.....in Tokyo...or in Dubai....so I suppose those are the ones who travel. But then does it matter anyway.....there are plenty of British people who would struggle to find France on a map and it's only a few miles away.....that's if they realise that such a country actually exists.....so Americans would hardly be the first people to be insular.

Oh and edited to add: being from French heritage you should understand notions of cultural superiority that extend beyond the United States....the English and French battled for centuries to export their cultures....and although France lost that battle...even today they believe they're the rightful heirs to the cultural throne......when London was granted the 2012 olympics at the expense of Paris.....the French president's response? "how can the world choose a nation with the worst food in the world over France?"

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 5/29/2010 12:10:26 AM >

_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/29/2010 12:36:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dubbelganger

Methinks Elisabella's map is pretty much spot-on. And I find myself in agreement with LadyEllen's first post.

I have no tolerance for flag-waving jingoistic American Exceptionalists. They tend to be uneducated, untravelled, uncultured morons of the first order, barely suitable for menial labor.

I have been to 37 states, including Alaska and Hawaii, Puerto Rico (2x), Mexico (about 30x), Canada (about 10x) Costa Rica, Morocco, Gibraltar, Spain, Hungary, Belgium (2x), Luxembourg, Austria, Liechtenstein,, Netherlands (3x), Germany (3x), England (2x), France (3x), and Switzerland. People pretty much want the same things everywhere: meaningful work, a good education and environment for their kids, good healthcare, freedom from fear (of getting shot or mugged, growing old in poverty, etc.) By and large, people in most of Europe have these things. We in the US have many of those things, too, except that our social safety net is seen as a burden by those who would rather spend money on wars and new military toys rather than Grandma's old age. For that, I piss in their mothers' milk.

If I could afford it, I'd live in Europe in a heartbeat. I already speak some German, and have rented a flat and lived in Munich for 5 weeks, so I know I can get by quite easily.

Dubbel, "if I could afford it."
Yeah, I can live in Europe if I wanted to as I have dual U.S. / Irish citizenship but, a gallon of gas is what $5, $6 ?
And a pack o fags $7 or $8 ? Three Euros for a pint? Car insurance $2,000 per year *with* a good driving record in Ireland!
That's the problem, all those cradle to grave benefits *cost a lot of money* and Ireland's not even the most expensive country in Europe, I think Norway is and most European countries tax the hell out of their citizens.
And noone's bitching about grandma's old age, it's the generation after generation of illigitimate children and their layabout parents who've never had gainfull employment and thought it might be "cool" to quit school at 14, 15 or 16 smoke dope and "have a kid", that's the problem.
I've been to probably about 40 differant countries and most of them were shit pits.
Unlike the pols in D.C. I don't want to "give" them anything. Anyone who thinks the world is a bed of roses should do some travelling in the military.
Outside of Europe, Canada, Australia and Brazil and Argentina I have no interest in seeing anyplace else. (Most) other countries are failures.
You've been to some very nice countries, you should go to Haiti sometime, you can smell it 50 miles out to sea and it smells bad!
Sure, everyone "loves you" when you're giving them the U.S. Taxpayer's dollars!

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/29/2010 2:39:02 AM

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...except for that America is superior.

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RE: How do you view the rest of the world ? - 5/29/2010 2:58:36 AM

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quote:

every country has their version of the rednecks with blinders on.

- LA

True that.

quote:

LadyA,
... Americans think they only think they need to speak english, and that is why we are rapidly losing globally in commerce and education. If I were young again * I wish ;)* I would learn Mandarin and probably at least one other language. Besides French, which is usually the only other language that most bi-lingual Americans speak, at least in Maine, because of our close proximity to your country and the large amounts of Franco-Americans that live here.

Malheureusement l'habitude la plupart des Américains de prendre le temps de le faire, n'est-ce pas triste?

.

Ahem.
I think most bilinguals in the USA speak a the Spanish, chica. Only you dang New Englanders care about parlaying in Fransay.

The one time I got in trouble abroad, I was very glad to be a US citizen. I knew that I had a lot of resources available to me. However, I'm also very careful about letting people know I'm from the USA when I'm in certain places. I won't lie, but hey, a red herring never hurt anyone! What I hear from people abroad is how disgusted they are with US politics and how arrogant our views are. (Rightly so.) The USA is what Britain used to be - as I understand it.

I have learned from living in a small town to big city to bigger city to living abroad that once one sees the rest of the world or at least parts of the world, we learn an awful lot about who we are and *hopefully* our interdependence on the world around us. I have never been treated so well by strangers as I have been abroad. I return to the US and find people stuck up and rude to others who don't speak perfect English. Thank goodness people have not felt that about French, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, or Que'chua with me!

When I go to the grocery in the USA, I see food from all over the world ... except my own country - a few exceptions of course - Florida oranges, Jersey tomatoes, Idaho potatoes. But really, how dependent have we become and yet we still shake countries down.

I think the world will rise up (just as the people did against Britain). I applaud the leaders in South America who have said no to the US bullying about coca production. They say "we don't have a cocaine problem. You do." What I saw would agree with that. Without the US demand for drugs, there would be no supply, and people would start growing prickly pears or other things.

That reminds me... I need to get dinner.

Best,
sunshine

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