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What's a "living wage"?

Firm

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The reality is that, many of those wealthy people, if you removed their wealth, they would be able to regain it. Most of the people that are not wealthy, if you gave them wealth, they would lose it.

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Brain is obsessed with the rich and has started several posts reminding us how awfull they are. Being jealous like that will eat him from the inside out. Someday he might figure it out.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

'Only the rich pay taxes', from blueeyedtex.com....top 5% pay 53.25 % of income tax. top 10% pay 64.89% of income tax. top 25% pay 82.9% of income tax. top 50% pay 96.3% of income tax. the other 50% pay 3.97% of income taxes in the United States.

the highest-earning 1% of taxpayers in America make 22.06% of all income reported to the government. That's almost twice the 12.51% of total income earned collectively by the lowest-earning 50% of workers. Yes, 1.4 million taxpayers claim 22% of income earned while 68 million share just 12.5%.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/CutYourTaxes/make-32k-youre-in-the-richer-50percent.aspx?GT1=33009

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ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

While your facts may be credible, most bring it upon themselves. Unless youare in the medical or legal field, why are you dragging so much debt before finishing college? Eventually loans have to be repaid. These are educated people. Banking upon a salary you dont have is insane. Its almost like the housing bubble. People were assured they could afford the house they were buying when they couldnt. Now we are assuring people they can afford the education they are getting. They cant.

Tazzy is quite right.  What happened to working your way through college, and only attending one that you can afford?

Not to mention, quite a few of these unemployed and underemployed persons with college degrees made a huge mistake in deciding what degree to pursue.  I'm sorry, but there isn't a huge job market out there for Art Historians.   There aren't many really good jobs for persons with degrees in Psychology, either... unless you have further certifications in a specialty field.  The list goes on.

Honestly, I think a part of the blame goes to the parents (and society in general) for an entire generation who has been raised to believe they can be absolutely anything they want.  I'm not saying that you shouldn't be encouraging your child to seek a career in something they might have an aptitude for and enjoy.  But there's should be reasonable research into the job market forecast and a little bit of common sense. 

Personally, I feel the entire degree thing has been greatly devalued.  What once used to be required only for the highest level of positions, is fast becoming as meaningless as a High School diploma for even entry level minimum wage jobs.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Most of our bigger farmers qualify as millionaires.

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ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Coming in late to an already derailed thread...
I don't begrudge successful people from keeping their wealth;

There is a strong policy to allowing people to benefit from what they have earned, whether it was from hard work or even just luck; this encourages people to risk and invest.

But there is also a strong public policy in making sure society doesn't get too far out of balance; a society comprised entirely of a tiny wealthy minority and a vast impoverished underclass is a time bomb of instabilty;

This is how it is in most 3rd World countries- they have societies that don't fairly reward hard work; instead, the wealthy simply lock arms with the government to game the system to gain a monopoly on power and wealth, often using the Treasury as their piggy bank, to cover their bad bets with taxpayer money, while keeping the spoils of the casino for themselves. (Sound familiar?)

The most successful nation the world has ever seen was the America of the 1950's, when we built a prosperous middle class, where the gap between rich and poor was much narrower than it is today.


It is not as simple as all that...much of europe had been bombed extensively so the consequent rebuilding was part of the american boom.
The cold war has held common knowledge of russias economy in a closed book. Any close reading of the russian economy of the same period will show that it too prospered and in some areas exceeded our own.

NOT COINCIDENTLY....that was also the time when marginal tax rates were higher, when investment income and inheritance were taxed much more, and 1 out of 3 workers was a union member.

Those things did in fact act to dampen the natural swings of the marketplace, and held the top earners back; but they also ensured that the middle class was kept prosperous.

At some point, if things continue to slide towards a greater rich/ poor imbalance, the people at the bottom 3/4 will eventually decide that the game is rigged, and withdraw from participating in any constructive way.

The problem is that the middle economic class see themselves as the victims of the not wealthy.
Of course the wealthy do nothing to dispell this idea of victimhood.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

'Only the rich pay taxes', from blueeyedtex.com....top 5% pay 53.25 % of income tax. top 10% pay 64.89% of income tax. top 25% pay 82.9% of income tax. top 50% pay 96.3% of income tax. the other 50% pay 3.97% of income taxes in the United States.

the highest-earning 1% of taxpayers in America make 22.06% of all income reported to the government. That's almost twice the 12.51% of total income earned collectively by the lowest-earning 50% of workers. Yes, 1.4 million taxpayers claim 22% of income earned while 68 million share just 12.5%.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/CutYourTaxes/make-32k-youre-in-the-richer-50percent.aspx?GT1=33009

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And, if it is important enough to you, go "off the grid". Then the law requires that they buy electricity from you, instead of selling it to you.

No it does not. The law ,which the utilities wrote, says that they can deduct from your bill what you produce yourself, anything left over is applied as a credit to any future endebtedness you might encounter to them.

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I wouldn't hire them to rebuild my engine. Or even my carburetor.

I do not believe that cars have come with carburetors in more than ten years.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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Yet hope is worthless if is only backed up with bitterness and envy. I disagree that it takes resentment to fuel change. Resentment is a waste of energy. Energy better spent on doing the work and CREATING the change.

If poor people really wanted to BE wealthy they would be far better off learning from those that are wealthy rather than sitting around moaning, bitching and whining about being poor and how evil the wealthy are. But no, the moaning, bitching and whining are far easier than actually getting off their ass and doing the work.

Amen.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

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ORIGINAL: servantforuse

'Only the rich pay taxes', from blueeyedtex.com....top 5% pay 53.25 % of income tax. top 10% pay 64.89% of income tax. top 25% pay 82.9% of income tax. top 50% pay 96.3% of income tax. the other 50% pay 3.97% of income taxes in the United States.

the highest-earning 1% of taxpayers in America make 22.06% of all income reported to the government. That's almost twice the 12.51% of total income earned collectively by the lowest-earning 50% of workers. Yes, 1.4 million taxpayers claim 22% of income earned while 68 million share just 12.5%.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/CutYourTaxes/make-32k-youre-in-the-richer-50percent.aspx?GT1=33009

Good lord woman are you "deranged"?[;)]
sfu is not interested in how those numbers actually crunch he is only interested in the numbers that show that the not rich are sucking the system dry. You posting a reality check is just dirty pool...explane the truth again and you could get some corner time.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

In the end, however, I'm more worried about the growing imbalance between people who receive government largess compared to those who pay into the government in taxes.  When that balance favors the "receivers" over the "payers" then I don't think there will be anything that will save our nation in the long run.


Which people are the ones whom you fear will drain the tank dry?
Is it the welfare momma with the ubiquitous twenty kids that we hear about from the right all the time or is it the corporate welfare to adm, ted turnover, monsanto,cargill,bill gates and so forth?


I think the government needs to be more in the arena of making laws which favor the ability of people to be "mobile" in their careers, and in favoring the establishing and running of small businesses, and focusing on monopoly practices at the big corporate level.

When the government allows a corporation to patent a seed or give the corporation (a ficticious person) the rights of a real person are these the monopolistic practices you would like to stop? 

The reason that large corporations get away with so much that appears immoral, is because of their inherent power of size.  Sometimes size is a good thing, as it allows economies of scale.  But more often it leads to other abuses.

Since small businesses have always been the engine of job growth, and economic success for the middle class, anything which hampers them, or distracts the owners from concentrating on growing their business leads to favoring large, impersonal businesses (i.e. large corporations).

But the same people who scream for "more government involvement" are cutting their throats in the long run, as large corporations are able to lobby and buy influence that no small business alone can do.

With the court giving personhood to the corporation the next logical step would be to do away with lobbies, then there would be no restraint on the corporation and they would not have to pay lobbiest any longer.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

These income and tax-burden breakdowns come from information reported on 2006 individual income-tax returns, the latest of which have been analyzed by the government. Income categories are based on adjusted gross income (AGI), which is basically salary plus investment, rental and business income minus investment losses and expenses such as alimony paid, contributions to retirement plans, moving expenses and a few other costs.

same souce. Does this answer your question?

My point was that 50% of this country makes less than 12.5% of the AGI.

The top 1% starts at 388 k.

The bottom 50% start at less than 32K.

The top 1% makes over 10% more than the bottom 50%... and thats only the people who barely make it into the top 1%.

Why should anyone cry a river over someone who makes at least 10% more (at their bottom base) than 1/2 of the country?

I do not begrudge them their wealth. What i am tired of seeing is the whining that the rich are being so heavily taxed. So what? its the cost of doing business in america..

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

ahem. depends on your definition of good. [:D]

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Which college catalog states that the purpose of a college education it so you can make money.
If I remember correctly the one from harvard says that the purpose of a college education is to give the student the necessary bredth and depth of knowledge to make them a productive citizen. Of course that was some 40 years ago I read that perhaps it has changed since then.