RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best interest

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/11/2010 3:18:05 PM

littlewonder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

(Bet at least one broad out there just got wet reading that too.)

I'm betting you'd be right. <S>

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/11/2010 5:51:41 PM

AnimusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

There are two types of treatment of slaves and both of these types are in slave's best interest:

[snip snip snip]

Masters, which type of approach you prefer?

I like to come home and find dinner cooking, and a sweet cheerful girl waiting to take my hat and coat;
I like to have the house clean and tidy, and enjoy pleasant conversation during dinner.
I like to have a cigar and glass of wine, and be left alone for a bit, then when it suits me, to have access to her body in any way, fashion or time; roughly or gently, with caresses or slaps, until my appetite is satisfied.

What I don't feel the need to do is to turn this into a cult of exotic theory and prescribed norms, with the end result of turning WIITWD into something strange and odd, innaccessible to ordinary people.

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/12/2010 8:57:11 PM

alhamdullilah

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I suspect I may be misunderstanding you. I'm wanting to ask, though, whether you really think there is no value in deeming these preferences to be a lifestyle choice? Not all "ordinary people" would find your inclinations even appropriate, I believe. Moreover, I'm inclined to think that establishing a preference, sexual or otherwise that is all encompassing of one's manner of living and relating (if only to their partner or partners) is a means toward legitimizing it, discouraging ideally the impression not uncommon among "ordinary people" that it is merely perversion. What is perversion, afterall, if not an aberrancy in attitude or action in relation to the social norms?

I can see another side to that but will resort simply to saying that I personally like calling it a lifestyle, though not to include assertions that there is but one approach to the lifestyle that is right, genuine or ethical, nor the endless tediousness of nibbling away at the details in a feeble attempt to define every aspect and application. I just think it's great that what works for religion works well here, too, in that there are various denominations, so to speak. Let the Goreans be Gorean. Let the submissives identify as slave rather than sub or vice versa. Let some live the "D/s lifestyle", others the "M/s lifestyle", associate as "BDSM", "Leather" or "Old Guard" and let them distinguish themselves from "ordinary people", particular to their own congregation online, offline or in their minds... because by and large people are drawn to group affiliation. Not wholly parted from our tendency to exalt the individual, in the U.S. at least, we compartmentalize every element of our existence - from politics to religion to sexual preference right to the consumption of food. It's just what we do and we like doing it.

Honestly, I think that the more extreme or removed from socially acceptable relationship patterns, the more encompassing one's fetishes or preferences, the more inclined is that individual to seek to lable or differentiate their lifestyle choices. If all one is really into is a little sexually motivated spanking and gender based division of labor, he/she really doesn't stray very far from "ordinary", in my opinion. Even as relates to the splitting hair debates that seem to inundate the forums, isn't that just a whole lot of philosophizing, a pass-time that rarely if ever resolves anything but, above all, differentiates us best from all other creatures?! And obviously, I for one enjoy it immensely because that's the sum total of what I've posted here, resolving nothing, but distinguishing myself among others who may either disagree or lack the capacity or inclination to consider what I've attempted to express... long-windedly, no less!

Just my humble M/s more than D/s, slave more than sub, carnivore rather than vegetarian, liberal, bisexual thoughts on a matter that may not matter a bit but thoroughly interests me. :)

Gratefully,
llilah

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/12/2010 10:27:24 PM

AnimusRex

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Alhamdullilah-

I might sum up your points in that for many people not named Animusrex, BDSM encompasses much more of their life than "sexually motivated spanking and gender based division of labor". And further, that as an alternate lifestyle removed from the norm, people feel the need to assign labels and terms and definitions.

I would agree that this is correct.

One point repeatedly made on these boards is that WIITWD encompasses so wide a variation, that no one description or set of rules can apply to everyone. So I am sure that my practice is a far field different than many others.

Which is kind of my point- when people come in and start laying out rules and definitions of 12 Pillars of Honourable Domination (search that one- I swear I saw it here a few months ago) it seems like an artifice, a way to make this lifestyle into something more noble, our relationships more fulfilling and meaningful than "mere vanilla".

But in light of your comments, maybe it isn't that; maybe its the need to define an existance that doesn't follow the same template as others. My skepticism is that for the 3 people in the world who comply with that definition, there are 2,693 who don't.

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/15/2010 12:04:28 PM

cassandria

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I was told a while ago that I think too much.

But you know what, Socrates? I think you think more than I do. And I don't necessarily mean that in a good way. I mean that from everything I've read (and you post a fair bit, so there's a fair bit to read) that you try to compartmentalize how this all fits together. What you will never understand, until you're with someone and actually putting your ideas and theories into action, is that people's emotions don't always fit into your concepts. And you have to adjust, play around with it...and there's no set design on how that works.

I can't wait till you meet up with a woman and it's her time of the month or something along those lines, and you realize that your style of domming just isn't working - and that every box of info that you've compartmentalized in that insanely organized head of yours (I sooo wanna go in there and mess it up, you have no idea how much the thought makes me giggle) just isn't giving you what you need to 'handle' her properly. Because all that you have is rational, and women aren't always. And to draw them closer to you requires an understanding of emotion, not in a text-based sense, but in a "ahh...I've been here before, let's try this.." way. Experience *does* teach, and it's insanely valuable in my opinon.

That's when your understanding of human nature will reach a new and more mature level, I believe - when it's real, not merely in words.

~~~

Kana said..

quote:

You miss the basic fact that she WANTS to be a slave, that she gets pleasure and joy out of it. She has zero desire to be in an even relationship. Does she like all that I do to her? No. But she absolutely adores the total surrender, the ceding of control, the fact that I reach inside and pull from her things she wouldn't dream of on her own volition. She is a slave because that is where she finds her comfort, her security, her purpose.

He (Kana)needs to hold classes or something, to teach what he knows and how to become what he is. I'm that impressed with him.

But in truth, few people would be allowed to be accepted into his class, because frankly, few belong there. Granted, that's my opinion, but I bet his slave would agree with me :P

I don't concern myself so much with a Master's style of how to control me, whether I'm constantly happy or whatnot. I think that I more think of the stability, the belonging, the knowlege of my own place, and just him in general. I live...respond...react...rather than stress and concern.

If I'm calling him "Master" then I assume he's some twenty steps ahead of me much of the time, that he's got talents that are in very different areas than mine, and that he has the ability (and creativity) to use them in ways and means that will probably delight and mortify me on a regular basis. Which, gets me wet. Incidently.

*edited to add Kana's name...didn't want anyone to think I was referring to the OP in this case, cuz, um, I wasn't.

< Message edited by cassandria -- 6/15/2010 12:10:09 PM >

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/15/2010 1:22:55 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
What I don't feel the need to do is to turn this into a cult of exotic theory and prescribed norms, with the end result of turning WIITWD into something strange and odd, innaccessible to ordinary people.

But... but.... if you don't turn it into something strange and odd and inaccessible to ordinary people, then how can you justify declaring yourself as separate from those ordinary people and therefor special?

More seriously, I agree with you AR. Much of what goes on in BDSM land is not all that odd, or unusual... the roots of it are clearly visible everywhere in normal human behavior. At best you can say that we put more of a focus on some things than most folks do. Some people put more of a focus on golf than I do. That doesn't make them inexplicably weird as human beings... it just makes them better golfers.

Insofar as laying down things like "two types of treatment" or "12 pillars of domination" or whatnot... such exercises are not pointless despite the derision they typically receive in BDSM-land. It is perfectly valid, for instance, for me to consider the important of the distinction "submissive by personality" and "submissive by relationship orientation". That only becomes foolish when I start thinking that there aren't 2 zillion other ways to slice the pie. Such slicing and dicing is useful to understand AN aspect of the whole. So long as I don't start thinking that aspect is the only aspect, all is well. And for all of your "I just want to come home and get a cigar and a fuck", you're writing is too logical and articulate for me to believe you don't ponder these matters also. *grins*

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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