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RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 1:56:22 PM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

Look I'm not claiming that I thought she was going to love the statement. I'm claiming that it was not in any way abuse just a real honest conversation.

Ed: Just assuming that I am an aware person and my version is reasonably accurate. My question was not about my behavior though I'm happy to review it. I'm just concerned that if I disconnect from this person while they hold their irrational 'abusive' idea that it may result in damaging and tiresome attempts at character assassination.

If you are the aware person you claim to be, and you knew that she was not going to like the statement, how could you not think ahead and know she was going to freak out about it?

I am the master of knowing people's achilles heels and saying 'innocent' comments to purposely get to them. It's not my most flattering character trait but it's there none the less. I also acknowledge that when I do it, I have to own it and accept whatever flack I get for doing it.

You've said you are aware, you knew she wasn't going to like it. Now you have to 'man up' and own your shit and take the flack.

As an aside, if one wacko can assassinate your character, you've got bigger problems.

I hear you, and believe me I got more than an earful that I patiently sat through and made peace with... that wasn't the problem. The problem is her now, later, unilaterally renegotiating that to "abuse" as a very transparent ploy.

I don't think that one whacko can do that, but that's why I'm asking. I don't have a strong established reputation, I don't mind if people think I'm an ass, but abusive I take exception to. Thanks for the input.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 21

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 3:16:32 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

I believe my Tag Line on my Siggy says it all from my point of view.

quote:

"Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur."

It is virtually impossible to keep everyone happy and ruffled no feathers. If you could however, the question remains: "Are you being true to yourself and have you kept your honour?"

There are people, who, it matters not what you say, you will ever be wrong and they will ever find something in what you say, how you say it or even your body language will offend them. I was married for 17 years to such a harridan.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 22

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 3:30:42 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml
I am also assuming that you wouldn't be so unwise as to believe that no-one ever gets the wrong impression from things that you say... There have been a couple times when I've had to provide some aftercare - where something said in the heat of the moment for one purpose was misconstrued.

Absolutely. I am always monitoring very closely the internal responses I am getting and I attempt to squelch any controversy the moment it arises; However, there is no aftercare for denial except to back down from your position.

I think you have to be very careful to not get in that situation to begin with. Humiliation and head games can be very volatile even with someone you know very well. Someone you don't know well, it's russian roulette. Given your desire to engage in this paticular game, I think you are really going to have to find someone that you both know rather well and isn't hypersensitive or likely to call "abuse" at the drop of a hat. I've done many things that weren't pleasant, I've been hurt (not in a good way) unintentionally, I've NEVER assumed those instances were anything other than us both taking the risks and them occasionally surfacing.

If you are playing these games with women you've met on the net that you talk to on the phone without really knowing them (and I don't know if that's true, I just get that impression), I think you're going to keep having the same issue. Getting inside someone's head and knowing where the areas are you can push isn't a one day deal. Humiliation isn't for the easily offended and it really is a subjective thing, you have to know where you are going and how she feels about it.

It's easy to say she's nuts, honestly I think screaming abuse is over the top given the scenario that you described, but it is YOUR job to know if she is and where you can safely go and do no harm other than that which is consentual. It's generally not considered inappropriate for a physical masochist to scream, cuss, cry and respond to the pain they are receiving (yes generally, I know some would disagree). I don't think it's necessarily someone being nuts to respond emotionally to emotional sadism. Distinguishing whether she is a drama queen or you just hit the wrong buttons is something you're going to have to figure out.

I wouldn't worry about your reputation. There's a reason why we talk about risks and consent so often here. Unless she told you to stop and you continued, it's nothing more than a risk realized, which is unfortunate, but definitely not abusive, but imo engaging in emotional sadism does mean that you have to take the fallback and do aftercare just like a physical sadist would. That aftercare includes telling her she is ok and yes even listening to her be upset. You pushed the buttons, now you have to bring it back to stability. It is part of your responsibility if you want to play this game.

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/24/2010 3:49:54 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 23

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 3:41:02 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

How do you do damage control when someone is a drama queen (who baited you, and you fell for it)?

(Question doctored by me- back half added)

How you do damage control with a drama queen: disengage.

If you want drama, you can watch a movie. Or, you can continue to interact with this person. Or both.

One definition of stupidity is to keep repeating the same action, while expecting a different result. Engaging a drama queen repeatedly, will repeatedly result in drama. Drama is what they do, for whatever reason. If you want that in your life, keep on inviting it by interacting with this kind of person. If not, then don't.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 6/24/2010 3:43:24 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 24

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 4:22:21 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

The best example of Drama Queens of all genders I know is the uncut versions of Jerry Springer.

Mayhap we need CM to open a Springing Jerry v Dreama Queens Forum

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 25

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 6:05:11 PM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

I agree with your logic laurell3. However, there is another layer of denial beneath the surface. By definition a Drama Queen is an emotional masochist who can't admit it to themselves, thus all the drama. I can't get into someone's head to do anything unless they are open to it... I wasn't expecting to run into that level of self-deception in someone who theoretically knows they like pain. Lesson learned.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 26

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 7:28:31 PM

CynthiaWVirginia

Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline

Plasticine...

If this were my problem, a sub I didn't own making that accusation so freely to me, I'd tell them don't let the door hit their arse on the way out.

Some people are black holes and need to go to a shrink...others can be helped, but only if they are willing to see issues and be led through dealing with them. If someone had an issue with me, I'd expect them to come to me and say that I hurt their feelings, or that they thought I wasn't being fair.

The word "abuse" should never be tossed about so lightly.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 27

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:14:24 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

I agree with your logic laurell3. However, there is another layer of denial beneath the surface. By definition a Drama Queen is an emotional masochist who can't admit it to themselves, thus all the drama. I can't get into someone's head to do anything unless they are open to it... I wasn't expecting to run into that level of self-deception in someone who theoretically knows they like pain. Lesson learned.

You're not alone, this isn't any different than any other dating, people may appear to be something they very much are not. Some of the nicest guys I've met have ended up being some of the biggest psychos. I'm not sure I'd agree with that definition, but I'm also not sure it's relevant to the discussion at hand. Some people create drama because they thrive in conflicting situations, they aren't necessarily emotional masochists, they're just making chaos because it's comfortable for them.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 28

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:18:37 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Out of interest, what was it you'd said?

I think it was when I suggested to her that she uses temper tantrums to get her way and that it was not constructive behavior.

Yeah, that'll piss 'er off. lmao Seriously though, if she throws temper tantrums, she should be told that.

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 29

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:20:13 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

I am a nutjob. I attract other nutjobs. Its a matter of which types of nutjobs I am most compatible with. I don't expect myself to stop being a nutjob any time soon. Some nutjobs are such nutjobs that they can't even admit it. It comes with the territory. I'm looking for other self-aware nutjobs.

i love it!

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 30

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/24/2010 8:26:48 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

It sounds like it wasn't scene related at all, but rather an attempt at behaviour modification. Since you knew she was touchy, I think that you probably could have handled it better. Personally, I actively try to avoid high-drama people and nut-jobs, and people who are attracted to them. It's just not worth it. Unless she outright lies, it doesn't sound like anyone else would agree with her that you were being abusive, so I doubt you have to worry about your reputation. If someone was normally a reasonable, calm, easy-going person, but was being manipulative to get something they wanted or get out of something they didn't want, I would try to specifically address how I wanted them to communicate their needs.

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 31

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 4:55:21 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

You don't get to decide what someone else finds abusive. If she finds your comments or actions abusive, then it is so. The fact that it wouldn't be that to someone else is not germane. The fact that you did not intend it to be so is not germane. Own the results of what you've done, don't blame the victim.

This kind of thing is especially true with certain edgeplay; humiliation, faceslapping and so on. If it brings up emotions that make the other person feel abused, then it is abusive with them.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 32

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 5:54:59 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plasticine

As a spin-off from the Prostitution thread... LadyPact brings up a valid point:

This is a very real and upsetting scenario. I've already had a woman call me abusive for simply telling her a truth that she didn't want to hear. (i.e. an observation I made in conversation that offended a fragile ego, telling someone they are being childish for example) I know what I am doing, whether I am abusing or not, etc... How do you do damage control when someone is in denial?

I didn't want to respond to this yesterday because I wanted to be sure that I was being fair. I wasn't particularly sure if bringing the situation over from the other thread would influence what I would have to say here. Having had time to think about it, I've decided that it is fair and helps to explain My position.

No matter who you are, if you're going to top (play) anyone, you run the risk of that person labeling you as abusive. In My opinion, this is something that you should consider when selecting the people that you play with. It's true whether you have played with them once or they've been with you for years. All it takes is an allegation.

The thread the comment was pulled from is a good example of this. Not everybody out there is going to read the whole thread where the information changed later. It's a case of someone who plastered the topic out there, with screen name and face included, who basically set the stage for her Master to be viewed as 'that guy who wants her to prostitute herself for money against her will'. As the details unfolded, it was pretty clear that this wasn't fair to that man by a long shot, but the potential is there for him to be stuck with it.

If he would have made an appearance on that thread, I'd be giving him the same advice that I am giving to you now. This is not a person that you need in your life. Anybody who in the beginning stages of being with you that is so willing to throw about misleading or slanderous insinuations about you has a risk of doing it later. If I were in your shoes, I would approach this person and tell them that we are obviously not suited if they feel that they were abused in their treatment. I'd wash My hands of it and be done, even knowing that the person still had the ability to damage My reputation. Better to take a little heat now than what I could potentially be in for later.

I'm going to say one more thing about this, and then I'm going to shut up.

I happen to think I have a pretty good reputation. That is true of both the online and real community that involves BDSM. It only takes one person to damage that. The fact that twenty people that I've played with would come to My defense to say that I wasn't an abusive person, that one person would have an impact, even if I didn't deserve it.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 33

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 1:30:58 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Considering how the op has frequently been condescending to people here, an alternative view of the situation he describes could have been her getting fed up with his asshat behavior and blowing her top. Since he could not see how his behavior was less than stellar, he could well have the view that he describes as anything else would be accepting his own responsibility in the failure of the relationship.

As far as character assassination goes, that's hard to prove. She could well tell anyone who asks about him that he was not someone she ever wanted to share a meal with. Is that slander? Not in my book. It's her opinion, not character assassination.

Not everybody will like you, op. Deal with it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 34

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 4:39:40 PM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 35

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 5:10:31 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

I'm undecided if Plasticine is trying to practice high level protocol diplomacy and not offending or naming anyone but yet seeking affirmations on his methods of dealing with rather difficult situations. Or it could be that he being condescending whilst taking the line of least resistance and seeking affirmations and nailing (in his mind), the tail feathers of some one who has had the audacity to disagree with him and do so in a raucous manner. I find the condescending attitude interesting and am unsure if this is a pose he adopts on CM where no one can physically snot him or if it is his natural mode, I'd suggest walking very carefully because there are those humourless folk who would not think twice about laying someone who was condescending to them flat on their back. Still this is all just idle speculation whilst I eat my porridge and drink breakfast coffee.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 36

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 5:12:59 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

What has he said that's condescending in this thread? Granted his opening thread to the board was a bit of a nightmare, but I see nothing other than him attempting to communicate positively here.

I don't know if you missed this, but he's the first one to admit he has issues. So do we all.

Actually I find the topic of emotional masochism/sadism and it's risks fascinating. Can we talk about that maybe?

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 6/25/2010 5:13:55 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 37

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 5:32:36 PM

Plasticine

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/9/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I'm undecided if Plasticine is trying to practice high level protocol diplomacy and not offending or naming anyone but yet seeking affirmations on his methods of dealing with rather difficult situations. Or it could be that he being condescending whilst taking the line of least resistance and seeking affirmations and nailing (in his mind), the tail feathers of some one who has had the audacity to disagree with him and do so in a raucous manner. I find the condescending attitude interesting and am unsure if this is a pose he adopts on CM where no one can physically snot him or if it is his natural mode, I'd suggest walking very carefully because there are those humourless folk who would not think twice about laying someone who was condescending to them flat on their back. Still this is all just idle speculation whilst I eat my porridge and drink breakfast coffee.

You have me at a loss. I'm not sure that I follow you as the wording is a bit opaque to me. I have no conscious thoughts of seeking affirmation, I was seeking guidance about what others might do given the situation and how to avoid it in the future. Good advice was given by many people, yourself included. Some unpleasantry is par for the course on a public forum. The feedback given here has helped me make up my own mind about these scenarios, and I'm grateful. Successful thread in that sense.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 38

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 5:33:58 PM

SirsJewel

Posts: 696
Joined: 3/23/2010
Status: offline

i have to say reading this and the threads that You are the Dominant,and should have controlled the situation, not her having a tantrum which was indeed childish. Character of a person is how they deal with a bad outcome in life, a struggle. She is topping you IMHO by getting pissy when You have a right to point out her weaknesses and she has the need to be rewired on how to accept critism. i have often times been "put off" by remarks Master says to me,but i try to think clearly,breath and not overly think or react as a shotgun anymore. The longer i calm my interior self the better the exterior responds. If You have a wish to deal with this person again,do not back down if You felt You were right. If not give up and recognise the failure on both ends, Good luck ~ jewels

< Message edited by SirsJewel -- 6/25/2010 6:00:28 PM >

_____________________________

God grant me the serenity to accept people for who they are and not whom i wish they could be ~ jewels

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 39

RE: Unintended and Undeserved Consequences - 6/25/2010 5:42:33 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Fair enough, that cleared up the grey areas for me. I'm sorry that some of my wording was opaque for you 'tis just the way I tend to prefer to write and many who know me understand what I say perfectly well. Still none of us can please everyone can we? The crux of this thread is interesting and well worthy of discussion from a variety of view points. I'm the first to admit that I have a natural aversion with drama queens, as the female you wrote about appears to be, of any age or gender. For me personally, they are a waste of time and space and pollute the air we breath but like so many disasters in nature we just have to learn coping techniques to deal with them (like walking away or on line blocking them).

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Plasticine)

Post #: 40

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