Male bashing

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marshalp -> Male bashing (6/24/2010 5:27:05 PM)
Hello, I have a bit of on issue. The thing is, i am a part of a local group which has a majority of women. Off late the conversation has been very much anti male, the submissive women complain about the male Doms being false Doms "tin-foil knights". That's all good, i understand people (i dare say women) need to vent out and rant at times (especially in a mono-sexual cohort), but this is an all inclusive local group. The problem is that due to this, the flavor of the entire group has become anti-men... there is a lot of general male bashing going on... the dominant women picking on the sub males & the dominant men just don't participate in the conversations. It's become a "hen club" where men can't enter. Now, there are individuals in the group which i really like... please advice what can i do short of moving away from the group... disclaimer: i understand that these are my perceptions, & they could be very wrong

mstrjx -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 5:38:41 PM)
I've generally taken an unpopular and surprising viewpoint on this, and let's see if I can make it coherent. People talk. Women talk about men, women talk about other women. Men talk about women. Men talk, check that, men don't really talk about men all that much. There's a lot of negative talk in all of that talking. The men are this, the women are that, and it goes on. But in my observations over the years, I think men are assholes, comparatively speaking. Not all, but a lot, and not surprising when you put a bunch of them together. Just saying. Jeff edited to add: Oh, advice, forgot. When the male bashing is going on, if you don't think you resemble their remarks, then what do you have to worry about? If they see you as different, or above, others, not just 'one of them', then why worry. You stick out like a good sore thumb. If you know you resemble what they say about the male gender or if you're just not sure, then you've already lost the battle and it just doesn't matter.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 5:43:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrjx I think men are assholes, comparatively speaking. Not all, but a lot, and not surprising when you put a bunch of them together. I feel the same way about a large group of girls in a Bar. The more you put together the more total bitch like they all become. I find that any social group in numbers lose attractive qualities the larger the group gets. QSM

Level -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 6:18:43 PM)
quote: marshalp: please advice what can i do short of moving away from the group... Tell them to shut the fuck up?

LadyCimarron -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 6:23:03 PM)
You need to speak with the host or hostess of the group. A good host will make sure that all of his or her guests are comfortable at the group meetings. I have never been involved with a group where something like this was tolerated. If it doesn't stop after that, you and the other men should all get together and advise that until things are a little more "gender friendly" you will not be attending. Some women see the worst in men when they are around, but as soon as the men are gone, they start missing them.

marshalp -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 6:38:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mstrjx But in my observations over the years, I think men are assholes quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan I feel the same way about a large group of girls in a Bar. The more you put together the more total bitch like they all become. Don't you think this is behaving like 7 year olds "boys are assholes & girls are bitches"... Are people that different with respect to their gender when it comes to behavior or meanness??? I would doubt so. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron You need to speak with the host or hostess of the group Actually this observation is in online discussions (on fetlife & collarme), but yes the effect is spilled over in real meetings too. BTW thanks for the advice, i think i shall soon speak to the hostess. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron Some women see the worst in men when they are around, but as soon as the men are gone, they start missing them. Soo true, & very true for both genders...

LadyPact -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 7:09:08 PM)
Here's what you do. Prove them wrong. Be exactly the shining example that shows people that you can't lump everybody into the same category. Be the exception! Show them that right under their collective nose that what they have to say isn't true in every case. In fact, go out of your way not to be the stereotype that they may be complaining about. Let you shine through. If you don't believe Me that it works, take a look right here at what happens on CM. We get our share of probably what the gals in your group are voicing their opinion about, but there isn't one Dominant female on these boards who can't tell you who is seen in a very good light because they've proven they aren't the status quo. Sure, it might be an investment and yes it might take some time for it to be seen. Still, if you choose to take the advice, being the exception to the rule definitely comes with it's perks.

Lockit -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 7:14:31 PM)
So there is a hen party and not one of the hen's finds this distasteful? Talking to one of them may not work. I would send a message loud and clear by all men boycotting just one meeting. Let them sit around and male bash. If they aren't on the phone wondering where all the men are and why they aren't there, find a new group of women that don't need to be hen's. I do believe in open conversation, but in this, I would say one male going to one female could be a start but it could also go no where or a real lashing for whoever might not fair so well in the conversation. Write a letter, have the men sign it and refuse to take part in being abused because people are upset with others. If you are the men they have reason to be upset with, then learn something, but if you aren't the men they are upset with, they need to learn something. Personally I wouldn't want to be a part of a group like that and even if I liked a couple of them real well, those couple you liked didn't see what was happening as degrading the whole group and worth saying something about. Expect more or don't supply fresh meat to be lashed out at.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 7:25:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marshalp quote: ORIGINAL: mstrjx But in my observations over the years, I think men are assholes quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan I feel the same way about a large group of girls in a Bar. The more you put together the more total bitch like they all become. Don't you think this is behaving like 7 year olds "boys are assholes & girls are bitches"... Are people that different with respect to their gender when it comes to behavior or meanness??? I would doubt so. No, I think it is being Honest. Calling a woman who is acting like a Bitch a Bitch isn't childish it's speaking your mind. Just as when a Man is an Asshole it should be pointed out by everyone that he is being an asshole. I have called many people to the floor for being ass or bitch like, the problem I see is that when you have a large number of them congregating together it seems to amplify the behavior and then because they are being backed up they tend to get more beligerent than normal. I don't think Bitch and Asshole are MEAN terms I think they are terms that describe a selfabsorbed person who treats other people poorly. QSM

marshalp -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 7:48:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan Calling a woman who is acting like a Bitch a Bitch isn't childish it's speaking your mind. Yes, but calling all women bitches because of one/few IS childish, & that was what i was saying... quote: ORIGINAL: marshalp "boys [not a boy] are assholes & girls [not a girl] are bitches"... quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Here's what you do. Prove them wrong. That's a good plan... thanks a ton (not tom, whoever he is[:)]) LadyP... quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Expect more or don't supply fresh meat to be lashed out at. That's another idea, but the place i am from is pretty small and apart from this group, there are not many other... unless we fragment out & form another group. But i'd like to keep the attrition to the very minimum.

PeonForHer -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 7:50:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Be exactly the shining example that shows people that you can't lump everybody into the same category. Be the exception! Show them that right under their collective nose that what they have to say isn't true in every case. In fact, go out of your way not to be the stereotype that they may be complaining about. Let you shine through. I don't know, LP - that's pretty much the advice some black parents used to give to their kids. [;)] No doubt it can work to an extent. It depends what you're dealing with, though. I think it's possible to sense an outright anti-male prejudice - the 'you're a male - what's true of the group must therefore be true of you' sort of thing. In those sorts of situations there doesn't seem to be anything for it but to walk away. I've done that, at times, with threads, here. I've thought 'Ah, OK. Something they really want to get off their chests, with this one' - and left them to it. I can handle it: people do need to let off some steam every now and then. If I see one or two smiles, and a little withdrawing of prickles, I know that they're making an effort. They've recognised that it's not fair on you. They'll be receptive, then, to your showing them that you're not one of the 'bad guys'. If they don't do that and blank you or, worse, start in on you - nah. That's just childish and rude. At that point a firmer statement needs to be made.

LadyPact -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 7:56:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marshalp That's a good plan... thanks a tom LadyP... Anytime. [:)]

marshalp -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:04:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: marshalp That's a good plan... thanks a tom LadyP... Anytime. [:)] Sorry it should "thanks a ton"... not tom... whoever he/she is [:)]

LadyPact -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:06:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I don't know, LP - that's pretty much the advice some black parents used to give to their kids. [;)] No doubt it can work to an extent. It depends what you're dealing with, though. I think it's possible to sense an outright anti-male prejudice - the 'you're a male - what's true of the group must therefore be true of you' sort of thing. In those sorts of situations there doesn't seem to be anything for it but to walk away. I've done that, at times, with threads, here. I've thought 'Ah, OK. Something they really want to get off their chests, with this one' - and left them to it. I can handle it: people do need to let off some steam every now and then. If I see one or two smiles, and a little withdrawing of prickles, I know that they're making an effort. They've recognised that it's not fair on you. They'll be receptive, then, to your showing them that you're not one of the 'bad guys'. If they don't do that and blank you or, worse, start in on you - nah. That's just childish and rude. At that point a firmer statement needs to be made. I understand where you're coming from, and I know this can be a problem. Heck, we don't have a demographic at all that doesn't take a few lashes now and again. I know people get frustrated. Both those venting and those being vented upon. I still think it's worth it to stand up and be counted. You can't change opinions by not showing up. Pfffftttt. If some kind of boycott happened at most munches/play parties, it would just be more ammunition and the women would engage in topping or bottoming to each other. They'd have a damn good time, plus another chorus about how males are just "do-me's" if they don't get their way.

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:11:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marshalp Hello, I have a bit of on issue. The thing is, i am a part of a local group which has a majority of women. Off late the conversation has been very much anti male, the submissive women complain about the male Doms being false Doms "tin-foil knights". That's all good, i understand people (i dare say women) need to vent out and rant at times (especially in a mono-sexual cohort), but this is an all inclusive local group. The problem is that due to this, the flavor of the entire group has become anti-men... there is a lot of general male bashing going on... the dominant women picking on the sub males & the dominant men just don't participate in the conversations. How are the males being "picked on"? More detail would be good to have.

Lockit -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:19:50 PM)
See I look at it like this... If it is so bad that the male dom's shut up and the submissives feel abused and someone comes here to say it's that bad, I am going to believe it is that bad because when women shouted they were being discriminated against and abused, people didn't believe them. I saw becoming and changing the whole atmosphere as a continual thing. If it is that bad, I am going to look at it differently. I am not going to encourage anyone to continue to go to a place they feel men are being abused at. Why should submissive men who feel slighted in a bad way or not, correct dominant women? Why aren't the dominant women noticing the way things are going and some of them say wait a minute... look at so and so... they aren't bad... look how they talk, show up, act... etc. How about... look how bad we are looking, sounding and acting? Now if someone is complaining about it, feels slighted and presents it as a bunch of hen's cackling and isn't willing to walk away... I would see that as someone not too harmed by it all and maybe one light in a dark and dim mess of women cackling might get a notice. lol And maybe a do me because it's the only action in town. I guess this is why I don't play well in groups because I can't see trying to make things work with a bunch of people that can't temper themselves and need someone to say or do something to correct the behavior of the majority. I'd stick with house parties if that is the case.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:20:50 PM)
QSM is right, in that when a group of one gender or another gets on a tear, it just snowballs, and even if one person is sane in the group, it doesn't matter. When women get together, we VENT. Sometimes, a lot. We complain about our jobs, our kids, our menfolks, the traffic, whatever. It's a way of dealing with our stresses and moving back to our lives. Now, I don't know the ladies you are talking about, they could be a crew of right fishwives. If they meet every month and never have any good things to say about anyone with a penis, well... maybe you want to find another group! [;)] I have a thread on one of my Fet lists that's a trifle nasty. For some reason, picking on one loser as an effigy of them all is kind of fun. I wish it wasn't, but there you go. It's safe to let off steam where the parties in question are anonymous, and not going to hear what went on.

Lockit -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:32:17 PM)
Let me ask this. How many have gone to suggest some changes or with a complaint on how things are looking in a group and gotten eaten alive? Messengers often get slayed.

Andalusite -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:39:29 PM)
I haven't had anyone do that to me over gender, but I have experienced stereotypes and generalizations that were critical about other aspects of my identity and interests. Saying something along the lines of, "I agree it is horrible when some people who are x do a, b, and c. I'm x, and I don't think I've done a, b, or c to you. If I ever do anything like that, please tell me right away!" Usually the conversation shifts more in the direction of ways to handle it when people do those things, and they stop the generalizations. I really dislike it when people male-bash, and it can be very triggering for me. Sometimes I speak up about it, but if a friend is venting after a breakup, that isn't the time or place, for example. I agree that discussing it with the host or hostess privately should help, or perhaps try to re-direct the conversation to a different subject.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Male bashing (6/24/2010 8:48:13 PM)
I know this isn't appropriate for a guy, but my way of redirecting is pointing out some of the GREAT guys I know. Which I do. I have run into some serious losers, but they are really in the minority, so it's easy to pull a good story about some sweetheart out of the memory bank. And I don't even LIKE men!

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