RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:13:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyCimarron


These issues do not have to be separate. We can do like mother Theresa whose search for meaning led her to care for the poor, sick and under-represented people of the world.


For the religious amongst us, that is fine. It was the insult that non believers dont have a clue that got me. I was comparing Julias views against my own. To a non believer alleviating world poverty is more important than is there a God. This isnt the same as saying you cant do both.




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:13:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

All questions are valid and to ridicule some over others is lame. There is time to ask all the questions and hopefully if we can help heal any of the major gaps and problems on earth and in ourselves, hopefully we will each do what we can.


I agree with you, and I have never knocked anyone for having religious views, nor will I. What isnt valid is Julias stupid assertion that non believers dont have a clue as to whats important in life. 



You are ascribing views to me I do not hold.... proving once and for all that perhaps atheists are into strawmen too....


Whatever dude....




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:14:32 PM)

quote:

It was the insult that non believers dont have a clue that got me


You keep saying that. I never asserted that nonbelievers are clueless...


I AM A NONBELIEVER....for fuck's sake




Politesub53 -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:16:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Your post was way more condescending than I could ever be. lets not forget YOU were the one who stated non believers dont have a clue about whats important. All i did is answer your obnoxious post. If you think your questions about are we alone, are somehow more important than world poverty, you need to look at yourself and stop being so pious.


So basically you are bashing me because you think I am a believer....

I'm not...


I am forever reminded about something..... we choose to be offended, especially when no offense was intended... and although I did not mean to offend you, you certainly went out of your way to be offensive to me...

I am interested in meanings that people ascribe to their lives, and their beliefs, and the questions that they ask and answer with them... you on the other hand seek to ridicule them as competing with your own...you can have that


I am not posting to you anymore, you are truly a narrow individual when you choose to ridicule the views of others because they don't gel with your own....




Dont blame me. You slung the insult about non believers yet now say it wasnt intended. Now we have the farcical situation of you knocking someones views that didnt gel with yours, and getting pissy because you as pulled on it.




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:17:17 PM)

I am beginning to think you are crazy




Politesub53 -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:20:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It was the insult that non believers dont have a clue that got me


You keep saying that. I never asserted that nonbelievers are clueless...


I AM A NONBELIEVER....for fuck's sake


So you didnt state the folowing then.

"And why many nonbelievers have to advocate sooooo strongly when they have not clue one as to the biggest questions facing humanity...."




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:28:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It was the insult that non believers dont have a clue that got me


You keep saying that. I never asserted that nonbelievers are clueless...


I AM A NONBELIEVER....for fuck's sake


So you didnt state the folowing then.

"And why many nonbelievers have to advocate sooooo strongly when they have not clue one as to the biggest questions facing humanity...."



I find people who are rude to others because of what they believe to be rather clueless... whether they profess to be a Christian, an Atheist, or a Martian Reptilian man....

To me it is rather clueless for people to take some of the biggest questions facing humanity up until the present (and historically the questions I have outlined have been extraordinarily important to most peoples around the world) and dismiss them as nothing.... and this is as much of an agenda as any religious person has....

Thanks for proving me correct.




Politesub53 -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:32:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Thanks for proving me correct.


You gave me way too much credit Julia, it`s kind of flattering though.




LanceHughes -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:51:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Great art, charities, support systems (Think 12 step here). While i dont want to listen to some evangelical nut case preach, i do see religions usefullness in society.


A) WARS of every stripe through every century if not decade.

B) Suppression of even greater art through censorship.

C) Missionary works that destroyed indigenous cultures.

D) Charitable works tied to religious messages.  I'm thinking "Sit through the service.  Then we'll give you dinner."  Here in Denver, Missionaries of Charity (Mother Theresa's Order) "helps" AIDS sufferers in the most restrictive, inhumane way you can imagine.  As a matter of fact, people have said they'd rather commit suicide.

"Inhumane," Lance?  Whatever do you mean? - Here's a link to a former Sister's article http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/shields_18_1.html which is titled "Mother Teresa's House of Illusions."  The six principles of Missionaries of Charity are "silence, prayer, faith, love, service, and peace."  AIDS sufferers are required to be in chapel for 4 hours a day, to be silent the rest of the time while they perform services such as laundry and mopping floors.  Food is of the meanest sort.  Money contributed is sent to the Mother House as outlined in the article linked to just above.

D) The killing of witches who were often healers, starting to use REAL medicinal knowledge.

E) 12 step programs that kill self-esteem.  An Atheist once sued the courts for being required to attend a religious exercise. (And he won. Article http://www.correctionsone.com/news/1843208-Atheist-sues-Calif-prison-officials-over-12-step-program/)  Sure 'nuff, there are similar programs helping people with overcoming their addictions without resorting to nonsense about a "higher power." 

Here's an article http://www.bukisa.com/articles/102062_finding-secular-alternatives-to-aa-and-12-step-for-atheists-agnostics-and-non-believers that starts "Drug rehab, be it twelve step or otherwise, is often so stuffed with God you wouldn't be able to tell it apart from church," and then continues to outline alternatives.

F) Churches do not pay property taxes on their land.  That is, non-believing taxpayers pay higher taxes so that church BUILDINGS are covered by police, fire, sewerage, etc.  Estimates are at least 25% of LAND tax is exempted.  Most businesses with Angelica in their name are owned by the Roman Catholic Church..... why should Angelica Dry-Cleaners not pay their property taxes just as Mom-n-Pop have done so for years?

G) Spirituality?  What a waste of one's talents, believing that there's something out there?  Live your life as if YOU are in charge of it, not some cosmic force like the zodiac.  Spirituality makes one miss out on the BEST life has to offer, by keeping your head in the sand, performing mumbo-jumbo worthless rituals.  Or worse, saying "Oh, I'm spiritual, not religious," when you really haven't thought about wtf that means.  I have yet to have anyone give a real-life description of what makes them "spiritual."  As defined, the word says "believing in another, other worldly realm. A belief in the super-natural."  Sounds like hallucinations to me. And those are usually an indication of mental illness.  Just sayin'

H) Suppression of scientific advances and truth (a'la Galileo.)  GREAT bumper sticker:  "The last time religion ruled the world it was called the Dark Ages."
A similar quote: "We would be 1,500 years ahead if it hadn't been for the church dragging science back by its coattails and burning our best minds at the stake." (Catherine Fahringer - you can wiki her)

I,J,K,L,M,N,O,P,Q,R,S,T,U,V,W,X,Y,Z,AA,AB, AC,.... etc. The list is endless.

Open your eyes, little girl..... open your eyes!




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:55:54 PM)

quote:

Missionary works that destroyed indigenous cultures.


You mean they destroyed indigenous religions...


quote:

The killing of witches who were often healers, starting to use REAL medicinal knowledge.


Yes, they destroyed yet another religion....



quote:

Spirituality? What a waste of one's talents, believing that there's something out there? Live your life as if YOU are in charge of it, not some cosmic force like the zodiac. Spirituality makes one miss out on the BEST life has to offer, by keeping your head in the sand, performing mumbo-jumbo worthless rituals. Or worse, saying "Oh, I'm spiritual, not religious," when you really haven't thought about wtf that means. I have yet to have anyone give a real-life description of what makes them "spiritual." As defined, the word says "believing in another, other worldly realm. A belief in the super-natural." Sounds like hallucinations to me. And those are usually an indication of mental illness. Just sayin'


Really ironic that you are for destroying one religion because they destroyed other religions... and then go on to advocate the further destruction of anything "spiritual" at all.... even if it isn't based on a religion.... real advocate for freedom you are....




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:57:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Missionary works that destroyed indigenous cultures.


You mean they destroyed indigenous religions...


quote:

The killing of witches who were often healers, starting to use REAL medicinal knowledge.


Yes, they destroyed yet another religion....



quote:

Spirituality? What a waste of one's talents, believing that there's something out there? Live your life as if YOU are in charge of it, not some cosmic force like the zodiac. Spirituality makes one miss out on the BEST life has to offer, by keeping your head in the sand, performing mumbo-jumbo worthless rituals. Or worse, saying "Oh, I'm spiritual, not religious," when you really haven't thought about wtf that means. I have yet to have anyone give a real-life description of what makes them "spiritual." As defined, the word says "believing in another, other worldly realm. A belief in the super-natural." Sounds like hallucinations to me. And those are usually an indication of mental illness. Just sayin'


Really ironic that you are for destroying one religion because they destroyed other religions... and then go on to advocate the further destruction of anything "spiritual" at all.... even if it isn't based on a religion.... real advocate for freedom you are....


lmao, so you equate killing people of other religions with educating the believers regarding the folly of their beliefs. And you call other people crazy.




LanceHughes -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 5:59:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Which is why so many feel that believing something completely irrational is a small price to pay if it promises an eternal reward.
(Was that one Voltaire? Some French guy who didn't like the Catholic church, I'm certain...)


I believe you're referring to Blaise Pascal.. The argument above is called Pascal's Wager.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager 




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:04:22 PM)

quote:

mao, so you equate killing people of other religions with educating the believers regarding the folly of their beliefs. And you call other people crazy.


Um... I am wondering if you are reading my post too clearly...

I am noting how ironic it is that he is putting down a religion that destroyed other religions... he calls witchery "medicine"... well shamans and wise women still practice these sorts of treatments, I doubt he would call that "medicine", but since it fits with demonzing the church he is willing to call witchery medicine instead of religion. He talked about indigenous cultures being destroyed, well one aspect of indigenous culture is traditional beliefs... in fact I bet many Indians would tell ya it is a major part of what makes them a people... their legends and creation stories, etc...

Tazzy is talking about today's church, not the Dark Ages...

I am sure Lance is not talking about the violent destruction of beliefs, but there are Atheists that have... pol pot and stalin come to mind... as does Mao....




LanceHughes -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:05:08 PM)

Thanks, willbeurdaddy.  You beat me to it!  (and said it exactly as I would have.)




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:08:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LanceHughes

Thanks, willbeurdaddy.  You beat me to it!  (and said it exactly as I would have.)


and the little kangaroo in his pocket said "me too"




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:09:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

mao, so you equate killing people of other religions with educating the believers regarding the folly of their beliefs. And you call other people crazy.


Um... I am wondering if you are reading my post too clearly...

I am noting how ironic it is that he is putting down a religion that destroyed other religions... he calls witchery "medicine"... well shamans and wise women still practice these sorts of treatments, I doubt he would call that "medicine", but since it fits with demonzing the church he is willing to call witchery medicine instead of religion. He talked about indigenous cultures being destroyed, well one aspect of indigenous culture is traditional beliefs... in fact I bet many Indians would tell ya it is a major part of what makes them a people... their legends and creation stories, etc...

Tazzy is talking about today's church, not the Dark Ages...

I am sure Lance is not talking about the violent destruction of beliefs, but there are Atheists that have... pol pot and stalin come to mind... as does Mao....


Why dont you respond with the portion of your quote that I was referring to.

"then go on to advocate the further destruction of anything "spiritual" at all"

You are conflating his advocacy of rational thought and decrying the actions of religion with violent repression of other religions, something I dont see him advocating. Nor does he advocate violent actions by atheists. I didnt think they had that many farms in Long Beach where you could find so many strawmen.




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:14:22 PM)

quote:

then go on to advocate the further destruction of anything "spiritual" at all


Read his post, he obviously believes any sort of spiritual feeling, even feeling connected to nature, as being equivalent to mental illness... like wtf? Is he saying that most of humanity is "mentally ill".... seriously, you do not see this as a completely radical sort of statement? So what do we do with all these believers and people who feel spiritual feelings? Do we give them meds or what? Geesh... talk about an agenda!

quote:

You are conflating his advocacy of rational thought and decrying the actions of religion with violent repression of other religions, something I dont see him advocating. Nor does he advocate violent actions by atheists. I didnt think they had that many farms in Long Beach where you could find so many strawmen.


When someone states that those who think differently than they do must be mentally ill, it is only a short step to advocating the treatment of those mentally ill people....

I do not see this as a conflation at all... I see it as a response to his words... which seem extreme to me.




LanceHughes -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:15:25 PM)

Gotta learn to type faster.  I am trying to let tazzygirl know that she was selective about her choice of example when she used examples to "defend" religion.  Great art, I'm sure was not meant to refer to today's religion, but rather to Michelangelo, and to medieval cathedrals.

I noticed you did not answer the WAR, nor 12 -step, nor Mother Teresa's fradulent use of contributions and such.

Yes, the sins of the father (early churches) are being visited upon the sons.  Still in the Bible: "Do not suffer witches to live."  I'll wager there's some witches in the deep South that have been killed for their medicinal practices.  Current day Shamen (and covens of witches) fall under the wierd religious practices of today.




LanceHughes -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:20:50 PM)

I'm REAL unhappy about you - juliaoceania - saying "he said this" and "he said that."  Back off, bitch!  Stop putting words in my mouth.... er, keyboard.

Here's how a person can live their life with an appreciation for nature without the nonsense called spiritually:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5015557




juliaoceania -> RE: Why are so many non-Believers so narrow minded? (6/28/2010 6:26:19 PM)

quote:

Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or immaterial reality;[1] an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of their being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.”[2] Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; such practices often lead to an experience of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm.[3] Spirituality is often experienced as a source of inspiration or orientation in life.[4] It can encompass belief in immaterial realities or experiences of the immanent or transcendent nature of the world.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

I clarified what I meant earlier, if you can't support what you say, well maybe you shouldn't say it




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