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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/4/2010 2:14:20 PM

slvemike4u

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No tazzy it isn't all about the drugs.....but remove drugs from the equation and these gangs are reduced in numbers ...both financially and member wise.
Drugs are the engine that drive these increasingly violent cartels.....and as Americans we have to face the fact that we are the customers that finance these drug wars south of our border.

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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/4/2010 2:19:37 PM

tazzygirl

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mike, it wasnt just the drug cartel in that "battle". Human traffickers were too. The violence is getting too close to home. How long before it crosses the border? Does it then become an international incident?

Everyone wants to bash Obama for his stand... but at least he is making one. Something Bush attempted.

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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/4/2010 2:27:28 PM

xBullx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Now I'm just asking,and not making any assumption.....honestly,but this guest worker program you speak of...and its need to be "fairly monitored and regulated" would this be a path to citizenship for these guest workers...would these workers enjoy all the rights and protections of actual citizens?
If not than all that such a program would accomplish is creating a second tier class of not quite citizens.
And most importantly would such a program be open to those who are allready here...which of course would be seen by some as some sort of "amnesty" proposal......a certain kiss of death to any such proposed legislation.

Honestly, I think a guess worker program is the only way that an illegal that is here already can actually be allowed to stay in the US without calling it amnesty.

Frankly I don't mind that those that are here and are actually becoming "Americans" stay. But I do care about those from Latin America and other countries around the world that have been trying to do it by the laws we have already prescribed end up getting short changed in their hope to become Americans. Honestly I prefer to take on those that are trying to do things the "right way".

That beings said, I think that those here could be given a guest worker card, they could then follow the same process that those here on any other type of Visa have to in order to become citizens. If someone out there thinks they should somehow be penalized for circumventing the process originally and provide solid reason for such a penalty, I would consider that fair and balanced towards those trying to do things the right way, I don't however think sending people home to apply again is going to be prudent or feasible.

As far as all the same rights as citizenship, no, I don't think they should enjoy all the same rights or benefits. When they choose to become a citizen and if they are awarded citizenship then they would be, just that citizens.

As I said they could earn the right to apply like others already trying for such. But I don't think giving benefits and rights like voting should go to anyone but a citizen.

Now their employment benefits and rights should not be short changed. They should have health benefits, the ability to pay taxes that would provide education and opportunities to their children. They should not be paid less than citizens for doing the same work, so fair labor practices must be involved. But I don't believe that they should have all the rights of a citizen politically or in some cases legally (i.e... if their home country wanted them extradited or if they were to compromise the rules applicable towards their worker permit).

There's nothing wrong with US citizens having benefits in being such, it's the existence of those benefits that have these people wanting to come here. But, I do believe that not being a citizen equals being treated sub humanly.

I wrote this a bit in haste but wanted to get it off before I went out for 4th of July activities.

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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/4/2010 2:29:56 PM

xBullx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Thanks for the post Bull ...

These are issues I seldom consider ... at least you got me thinking.

Have a great holiday.

You are very welcome....

Happy Independence Day to you as well!!!

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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/4/2010 2:38:07 PM

slvemike4u

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Sorry guys,but I too will have to bail on this....for now....heading out,everyone enjoy a safe 4th of July.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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Post #: 145

RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/5/2010 5:31:58 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
It’s obvious to me that with the baby boomers starting to retire, and with a shortage of workers/tax payers on the horizon we need to immigrate some rather large number of folks.

That is not obvious to me at all.

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Post #: 146

RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/5/2010 6:06:11 AM

Musicmystery

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What's commonly overlooked in the baby boomer doom and gloom predictions is that they had kids...and grandkids...and soon great-grandkids.

Sure, not as many as their parents and grandparents, perhaps. But in my lifetime the population of the U.S. has jumped from 100 million to 300 million, and it would be silly to claim that's 200 million immigrants (or if someone does, please prove evidence to support it).

Baby boomers will pass, and the pendulum will swing back and forth. This takes nothing more than advance planning--instead of raiding surpluses.

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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/5/2010 3:23:54 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I get that....... I didn't.

But if I am going to holler about hiring illegals, perhaps I should have the stones to turn them in.

Like most things, what is clear in theory can get muddied in practice.

This...is so true.

I'm against illegal immigration...in theory. The concept. In practice - my best friend in middle school was an illegal immigrant (came over the border as a baby with her cousin's birth certificate) and another friend I had in HS was the daughter of one. And those are only the ones I know about...I have a lot of Hispanic friends, I really don't know if they have any family members who came here illegally, and I really don't care either.

I guess I'm a big fucking hypocrite because I think illegal immigration should be stopped but I'd never turn in any of the ones I know.

IDK what to think about this anymore really.

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RE: Why is illegal so hard to understand. - 7/5/2010 3:29:35 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Forget whether or not they are qualified to pick fruit.....are they (American families) prepared to pay for fruit and vegatables picked by American workers ?

In Australia, food (like everything else) is a lot more expensive than it is in the US, even after accounting for currency differences. I'm guessing part of that is because wages are higher here, and there's still a culture of native-born migrant workers that go around to all the different stations (ranches) and get paid fairly decently.

Like anything else, people will adapt. Remember when gas was a dollar a gallon? When cigarettes were two dollars a pack. Yeah. People rage about the cost increase then they stfu and deal with it.

Besides, I've read enough articles that link poverty to obesity by saying that the poor buy cheap unhealthy food instead of relatively more expensive fresh fruits and veggies, so it's not like anyone would starve. People already pay more for fresh fruits by buying organic, or buying free range eggs, etc.

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Post #: 149