RE: Punishment

RE: Punishment (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Punishment (7/3/2010 7:02:19 PM)
I had an online dom once, and we were working towards real time, soit was not just pretend hanky panky, well I do not remember the whole situation but something happend and he thought I should get a spanking and I did not agree, so yeah in that case it did more harm than good. Now however I do not have a punishment dynamic, and probably will not ever again. I feel the same way you do, unless of course my relationship is an ageplay one then I am a child and punishments are appropriate for children. quote: ORIGINAL: delicatelydirty So for the purpose of expanding my mind I want to her from those who have punishment as part of their dynamic, what do you get out of it? Does it actually help? and are their times it has done more harm than good?

sunshinemiss -> RE: Punishment (7/3/2010 9:09:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP If you have to punish someone frequently for disobedience it means either you're giving impossible orders or you aren't inspiring love, respect and the desire to please. Those relationships don't last. This. Thank you Celeste for being so clear in your wording. Best, sunshine

gungadin09 -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 12:23:26 AM)
i have limited experience with BDSM, so i'm going to answer this question from my work experience. i've worked in some hardcore restaurants where you can get punished for making any mistake. i mean ANY MISTAKE. From the moment you walk in to the moment you leave, you're fighting to keep your job. Let me give an example: It was my first day in a four star kitchen. The chef yelled at me for asking where the sink was. He yelled at me for not walking fast enough. He gave long, elaborate directions and talked very fast. He yelled at me when forgot anything he said (which happened frequently...) He yelled at me for not working fast enough. He yelled at me for not using proper technique. He yelled at me for not knowing what technique i was supposed to be using. He yelled at me when i didn't understand something. He yelled at me for not asking questions. He yelled at me for letting a speck of lettuce fall to the floor. He yelled at me if i got one spot on my chef's coat. He yelled at me for not knowing every recipe i've ever made by heart. He yelled at me because he didn't like my chef's pants. If my execution of any direction he gave varied in the slightest degree from exactly what he had said, there was hell to pay. If i was off by a fraction of an inch on my knive cuts, if the the cantelope wasn't laid on the plate at exactly the same angle as the one he had shown me. If i didn't grind the pepper by hand. He called me stupid. He called me a moron. He told me i was a liar and that he thought i had never worked in a kitchen before. He told me that i didn't belong there and i should find another profession. He gave me looks that i thought would melt the skin right off my face. He threw stuff. And that was just the first hour... i had read about kitchens like that, but i had never experienced that kind of abuse first hand. Going into the job, i knew it was going to be bad. i vowed that, no matter what happened, i wouldn't quit. They might fire me, but i wouldn't quit. i wanted the job, i wanted to learn, and the only way to learn was to run through the gauntlet. I made that vow before i ever started that job. It's the only reason i lasted 2 years. Most cooks (all of them much better than me) lasted about 2 months. i don't know what to tell you, other than to say this: i don't like punishment either, but it gets results. If my boss hadn't ridden me the way he did, i would not be the cook i am today. i know he didn't do it to be cruel, but simply because he had a standard to uphold, and falling below that standard was unacceptable, and he let everyone know it. His punishments were harsh and sometimes seemed cruel, but in a strange way it was also gratifying to have someone hold me to such a high standard of excellence. In a backwards way, it was like he was saying that he knew i was better than that; he knew i could do better than that, and he wasn't going to let me settle for less. In that kitchen, the pursuit of perfection was like a religion, and his fanaticism inspired the rest of us (the ones who didn't quit or get fired) with a passion for what we did. i will always be grateful to him for that. pam

gungadin09 -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:02:02 AM)
Okay, i want to clarify what i just wrote, because i think there's a good chance it will be misunderstood. i want to say that this chef- he was really a nice guy in real life. The severe personality he portrayed at work was for the purpose of getting results and not because he liked being mean or bullying people. i know that for a fact. As severe as he was, he was also always fair. There were a number of instances where i saw him defend employees at the risk of his own job, or in other ways demonstrate extraordinary compassion and loyalty. He was not just an asshole, although he was often characterized as one. Anyone who really knew him understood that he did what he did to get stuff done, and because he demanded perfection from everyone, beginning with himself. i have never had as much respect for anyone as i had for this chef when i worked for him. i know that i would not have learned as much if he had not pushed me so hard, even though it was painful at the time. Then, when the day was done, he met my eye and we shook hands, and the next day was a clean slate. i have never had a BDSM relationship like that. In fact, i've only had one altogether, and it only lasted 2 months, so i'm not any sort of expert. But i can understand why someone would want that. It sort of eases your mind to know that if you screw up you will get punished for it. Not that you like the punishment, per se, but that it reinforces the idea that the world is a just and fair place, that your actions have logical and predictable consequences, and that once you atone for a mistake, the question is considered as settled and over with. i like that tremendously. i like the purity of it. Sometimes i wish i could spend my whole life in the kitchen. pam

sunshinemiss -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:08:34 AM)
quote: As severe as he was, he was also always fair So it is fair to say that... you are stupid, a moron and a liar?

gungadin09 -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:22:59 AM)
i believe that it is fair to use verbal abuse as a device to get results. The first few months i worked this job, i was in shock. After i snapped out of it, i learned not to take what he said personally, but as a motivational technique to do better (which i believe is how he intended it). pam

sunshinemiss -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:25:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gungadin09 i believe that it is fair to use verbal abuse as a device to get results. pam Luckily, most human resources department personnel believe that abuse is not good for business. best, sunshine

gungadin09 -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:27:29 AM)
Yes, i'm not suggesting that people should act that way outside of a restaurant kitchen. Or, maybe, the bedroom. pam

sunshinemiss -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:35:01 AM)
Why would it be ok for the leader in a kitchen to abuse people but not for the leader in the boardroom or the stockroom or the emergency room? I think, pam, you have things a little twisted. As I recall, part of why you stayed there in that job was because you got off on the abuse. That does not make it cool. You used that situation to get your jollies. I understand that (sort of in a weird intellectual way). Many of us stay in bad situations because of some other peripheral benefit. But that doesn't make it right. Holding someone to a standard is reasonable. I think inspiring that is reasonable. I think if it is the dynamic in a relationship, it is fine. HOWEVER, it is not fine in a job. I am betting that if you looked at the personnel manual where you worked you would find that it is also not fine there. Y'all just didn't stand up to a bully. Granted there may have been real reasons for that. I get that. Not everything is black and white. But at least let's acknowledge that black is not in fact white. best, sunshine

JanetPeters -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 1:58:51 AM)
quote: Its just another dynamic. I don't think people should read more than that into it. Some people have a real desire to be punished. Some people have a real desire to administer punishment. Its no different than any other desire a person in this lifestyle may have. Hello: I think it is different in that if the framework the relationship was originally agreed upon was clearly defined the performances on both parts equate to the success or failure in the relationship. If corrective measures for unsatisfactory performances were part of the original agreement, they are binding and failure to enforce constitutes an abandonment of the agreement.

lobodomslavery -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 2:13:40 AM)
i think ive been punished more than enough on this forum to be quite honest. As for punishment between consenting adults, each one to their own kevin

gungadin09 -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 2:40:33 AM)
i would argue that "getting off" on the abuse at work was the peripheral benefit in my example. The main benefit was that it made me a much better cook, and, perhaps, a better human being. This experience made me more alert, more logical, more detail oriented, better at listening and following directions, improved my memory and concentration, not to mention that i learned a lot about cooking and my self esteem and confidence improved from living through such a difficult experience. These attributes have served me well since then. i didn't consider it a bad situation, because the end result was good, and the chef's intentions (you'll have to trust me here...) were good. i look at it the same way i would look at a track coach that makes you run laps. It hurts at the time, sure, but it makes you stronger in the end. If he said "don't worry about it, you're just fine as you are" it would feel good, but you wouldn't win any races that way. i believe that sometimes the end justifies the means. Many restaurants are run this way, especially the very good ones. It wouldn't suprise me if many boardrooms and emergency rooms are also run by using abuse or punishment as motivation. And, yet, people still stay in those jobs. Some jobs are just competitive by nature, and some people enjoy that kind of an environment. i would make the same arguement about a relationship that uses abuse or punishment for that reason, as motivation. There are some people (like me) that just won't get their ass in gear until someone lights a fire under it. Although, i can understand why it's not everybody's cup of tea. pam

lally2 -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 3:39:03 AM)
was too zonked to say what i wanted last night, - because ive had this 'but im an adult!' conflict thing going on but ive never felt like a child when i was being punished. i think when its done for silly things then its almost certainly more about funishment for both and in there is shades of when you were a kid. its when naughty disobedience or cheekyness plays up to punishment and is rewarded - and plenty of people enjoy that kinda thing. but i think that is a completely different topic. punishment between adults goes on all over the place if you think about it only in vanilla it usually turns into a row and then someone stops talking to someone else, sex is off the menu, meals stop being cooked - im thinking of my vanilla friends and the sort of stuff that goes on sometimes. someone almost always feels guilty and the other almost always feels misunderstood. here at least that sort of stuff doesnt happen because there is one person in authority who decides how to deal with whatever happened and stuff rarely escalates to that level anyway. in the end real punishment should work as a detterrant, as LP said and when its used in that way it isnt about turning an adult into a child, its about avoiding rows, upsets, guilt and misunderstanding and preventing everything from unravelling. institutions use the word discipline or disciplinary action and it occurs without anyone thinking theyre being reduced down to a child. its because of the kink shades and that the word punishment is a generic term for all forms, levels and tastes. the word punishment does hark back to childhood, its a warmer word than discipline and i think thats where it all gets a bit iky for some and hot for others. there is something more nurturing and loving about punishment than discipline. there is funishment, catharsis from guilt, stopping a destructive pattern and all of that pretty much boils down to putting a sub or slave back where they want to be. so in the end it isnt a negative thing at all, for the relationship. so in the end if ive done something that has sufficiently rocked the boat im not expecting to get away with it, if i do im going to think my D doesnt care that much about the relationship - it was my bad and he deals with it - its a reassurance thing as well. but as i said before, being told off or made to sit and explain myself or go over the whole thing in some hideous detailed way is just as much a punishment to me as receiving some odious task or made to take the crop umpteen times. its either deal with it or gloss over it and if you gloss over it, a relationship based on an authority exchange is fucked, either that or it isnt about authority exchange and is possibly more about two adults enjoying lots of fun kink on a slightly more egalitarian footing.

ranja -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 5:21:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: delicatelydirty First of all my thoughts on punishment are pretty much WTF and why? I am a slave and for me I am all about pleasing him, so if I stuff up it is never intentional and we sit down and discuss it, like adults. So for the purpose of expanding my mind I want to her from those who have punishment as part of their dynamic, what do you get out of it? Does it actually help? and are their times it has done more harm than good? i am no slave but i do not mess up big time on purpose either, so indeed if there is a problem, talking about it like adults is usually the best option... however that might be a bit boring too... or even descend into argument when we can not see eachothers point... or if one or the other is too stubborn punishment might be a very good alternative to a boring sitting down and talking through things... (especially since my Husband is not a great 'talker' and i tend to start nagging) some people call it funishment when it is just for fun... but sometimes it is playing on the edge of emotions though... sometimes it is NOT funishment like a bit of spanking before bed time, sometimes there are underlying annoyances or guilt feelings about 'bad' behaviour and talking will just be embarrassing or boring or difficult... sometimes the punishment game can be very real and very emotionally laden and close to the edge and very powerful and humiliating depending on which side of the dynamic your position is. i have a liking for it, it makes for passion and drama and i crave that at times. It does 'help' as it is a great outlet and can clear the air like nothing else And yes... like anything, obviously it can all go wrong too, situations can be misjudged and egos get hurt and misunderstood and mistakes can be made... so we might do an assessment... sit down and talk about it after emotions have cooled a bit...

afkarr -> RE: Punishment (7/4/2010 5:43:10 AM)
I'm with the "WTF" crowd, it simply is not part of my dynamic in any relationship. Not only are we both adults and act like it, I also view the concept of a Doms "right" to punihs a sub as they see fit for whatever they choose as implying that a Dominant is always right, or has the best ideas, simply because they happen to enjoy topping, while a sub is somehow an inferior being simply because they enjoy being a bottom. Throw the roles aside, and people are people, mere mortals, each with thier own strengths, weaknessess, and fallabilities. Either party is capable of falling short of expectations, or making mistakes; sometimes a submissives point of view may actually be the one that is most logical. To ignore this simple concept is to ignore reality.

delicatelydirty -> RE: Punishment (7/5/2010 2:13:32 AM)
I just wanted to say a big thankyou to you all, while I doubt it will ever be "my thing" I can actually see that it can most definitely have a worthwhile place in a relationship if it is handled correctly.

crazyml -> RE: Punishment (7/5/2010 2:53:13 AM)
Oh you're 100% right sunshinemiss - some of the shit that goes down in kitchens is mind-boggling. It's one of those working environments that is still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to "leadership", I think it's often excused because the head chef is seen as an "Artist". Another excuse is "I had to go through that crap when I was training so..." - (You see this with junior doctors who are often treated like shit too) It's fucking bullshit. I've been in one or two kitchens where the chef is a leader as well as an artist - the whole team has a stake in the success of each service. Staff turn-over is low. When young chefs are ready to branch out the Head Chef supports them (even investing in their restaurants). And the diners sense the difference, I'm absolutely convinced. In the meantime there will be lots of successful restaurants that are run the old way, but I do believe that over time the "old style" will die out over time.

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Punishment (7/5/2010 3:20:46 AM)
Pam sighs That wasn't punishment, it damn sure wasn't instructing, what that chef did was abuse, plain and simple. Verbal abuse yes but abuse nonetheless. In BDSM it would be equivalent to beating you for every misstep and I hope you realise this. That chef could have gotten the same results by telling/showing you how to do it. Telling you you're a moron (for example) was no way to teach someone new to the kitchen.

BentUnit -> RE: Punishment (7/5/2010 3:22:19 AM)
<Laughs> I think I worked in that kitchen, Pam!

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Punishment (7/5/2010 3:26:38 AM)
quote: It wouldn't suprise me if many boardrooms and emergency rooms are also run by using abuse or punishment as motivation. I can't speak to what happens in boardrooms but I know for a fact that it doesn't happen in ERs - or at least not without consequences. There is a ZERO tolerance for abuse and any head of the ER would get in trouble if s/he tried to do what that chef did.

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875