RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant"

RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (Full Version)

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txurinal -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 10:45:54 AM)
This slave sees a MASTER who is very much like Andalsite. HE will do thing to me that HE know i enjoy and also many things HE knows i do not like. But at the end,we both will have enjoyed the entire session, even if much was painful or uncomfortable more than pleasurable to the slave

lally2 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 12:44:25 PM)
does the sub have to be turned on to promote this amazing feed back you guys get, or in sub space. whats the feed back you enjoy the most.

LadyPact -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 12:55:40 PM)
If I'm included in that question, lally, I would have to say it is the enjoyment from 'riding the wave'. I am heightened by everything. The refreshment of the drink, the taste of food, and the exploration of pleasure. I may be going about this the wrong way. Could you clarify?

Focus50 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 1:20:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper When I top (here meaning the execution of acts associated with being dominant) my pleasure comes from seeing a bottom getting what they need. I like the way they squirm, whimper and moan and how happily dazed they are after. I don't get any sort of jollies internal to myself. There's no flush of euphoria or power trip. If my partner(s) did not enjoy the evening, then I don't either. My happiness seems to be found in theirs, which is a rather submissive standpoint. I don't know which title matches me better, but that doesn't really matter. I want to know if I'm missing a sensation that many people who align as dominant do experience. I am curious of how others would answer "What do you feel when dominating a person?" Any other thoughts on the matter are welcome as well. I can mostly relate.... Especially that, no matter what I choose to do with or to the girl, the overall scene rates as a failure if she didn't have a good time submitting to it, too. But I disagree that this displays a submissive standpoint of my own. As a matter of pride, what man doesn't like to think he can satisfy his woman? Ok, does it really count then, that I'm arguably submitting to my own pride and standards rather than her needs? Because I concluded years ago that a Master is still slave to his own standards.... Focus.

lally2 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 1:20:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact If I'm included in that question, lally, I would have to say it is the enjoyment from 'riding the wave'. I am heightened by everything. The refreshment of the drink, the taste of food, and the exploration of pleasure. I may be going about this the wrong way. Could you clarify? oh youre always included Lady Pact [:)] - what i meant to ask really was in response to the those who posted and said that they really enjoyed the pleasure they give their sub/slave. i was wondering how much of their pleasure is tied up in the subs pleasure and does the sub have to be orgasmic and in space for people to enjoy what theyre doing to them. being someone who is neither orgasmic or in space during pain

HeavansKeeper -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 6:27:04 PM)
Thank you, Lady Pact and DesFIP for your well wishes. It's good to be back. Topping has been compared to fucking (pardon the language, but 'making love' and 'having sex' don't fit just how I want them too...) a few times, and I tend to agree. It's a skill one can be good at, and that one can enjoy doing. The same could be said of many other skills: Painting. "I enjoy painting because she appreciates my art." Cynthia asks a very poignant question, what makes me want to own someone? Is it to have them around to top, or a desire to teach and mold? (Still thinking about that) The way Cynthia and LadyNTrainer describe the sensation, I feel like there is a depth I am missing. The transcendent element has not been fully realized. Maybe in time, maybe not. I enjoy the time very much, and would rather have a nice session than many other entertainment options, but the words Lady Trainer shared made me feel like my experience in D/s has been a drunken one-night-stand by comparison. I am very happy she, and others, are able to feel that profundity. I am now certain there is more that could be gotten, and perhaps one day I will get there. I bet Focus is a very task oriented fellow. Does things right, works with his hands, doesn't cheat on his taxes. There's certainly no shame in being that kind of respectable boulder in a submissive's river. That dependability brings me to other points, where the difference of "top" and "dominant" was taking responsibility, training, being a consistent role model. Despite a natural fear of commitment, I do aspire to be that force in a handful of lives, and that lends credence to something more valuable than kinky lover. Self exploration is slow and difficult for me, but this family is very helpful. Thank you.

LadyPact -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/5/2010 6:52:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 oh youre always included Lady Pact [:)] - what i meant to ask really was in response to the those who posted and said that they really enjoyed the pleasure they give their sub/slave. i was wondering how much of their pleasure is tied up in the subs pleasure and does the sub have to be orgasmic and in space for people to enjoy what theyre doing to them. being someone who is neither orgasmic or in space during pain My answer lies in the situation. It can be anywhere from all of it all of the way down to absolutely none of it. If I sat here and said that every time there was play it was due to the bottom enjoying what I was doing, I'd be full of crap. Every now and again, I get a taste for doing entire scenes of things the bottom doesn't like. Hate might even be a better word for it. I'm having the time of My life making them miserable. At the same time, when it's over, they are very fulfilled because there was something about it that they craved. It did something for them to be used as an outlet for My sadism. They may have hated every stroke of the cane but something in them wanted every single lash because of what it was doing for Me. During the play, they might even cry and beg for it to stop (not safeword out - that's different) but when we're all done and the tears are dried, they want to know when we can play again. Deep down, it's something they want, too.

lally2 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/6/2010 1:50:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 oh youre always included Lady Pact [:)] - what i meant to ask really was in response to the those who posted and said that they really enjoyed the pleasure they give their sub/slave. i was wondering how much of their pleasure is tied up in the subs pleasure and does the sub have to be orgasmic and in space for people to enjoy what theyre doing to them. being someone who is neither orgasmic or in space during pain My answer lies in the situation. It can be anywhere from all of it all of the way down to absolutely none of it. If I sat here and said that every time there was play it was due to the bottom enjoying what I was doing, I'd be full of crap. Every now and again, I get a taste for doing entire scenes of things the bottom doesn't like. Hate might even be a better word for it. I'm having the time of My life making them miserable. At the same time, when it's over, they are very fulfilled because there was something about it that they craved. It did something for them to be used as an outlet for My sadism. They may have hated every stroke of the cane but something in them wanted every single lash because of what it was doing for Me. During the play, they might even cry and beg for it to stop (not safeword out - that's different) but when we're all done and the tears are dried, they want to know when we can play again. Deep down, it's something they want, too. thank you Lady P - then so long as the sub is benefitting on some level, you can flow, relax and enjoy what youre doing - its in the submission/surrender to what youre doing - thank you, i think i needed to hear that from a sadist too - [:)] xxx

leadership527 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/7/2010 9:37:38 AM)
For me, I find it impossible to separate out Carol from me. So when we're doing something, anything really, what part of it she wanted and what part of it I wanted and what part I wanted in order to please her and what part she wanted in order to please me, etc. etc. all gets muddled together to the point where it'd be impossible to sort out who started what, where, and why. Nor can I see any real use in sorting out "who's topping who". Let's suppose I actually was able to answer that question... what good would it do me? So... sometimes I [sexually] dominate Carol because it pleases her. That, in turn pleases me which pleases her which pleases me. Other times, I take her for my pleasure... which pleases her... which pleases me... Carol and I are a very tightly interwoven team.

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/7/2010 10:59:31 AM)
Honestly, I've never really gotten tied up in the terms "service top" or "service slave" or "do-me" this or that.... I think that it is important for people to both be internally aware of what makes them happy or contributes to their enjoyment of a given relationship, and to be forthright about that... so if you are a top, and you get off on watching the bottom really enjoying the scene, I don't consider that "service topping" -- to me, it's just "topping", and everyone is getting what they need out of the top being the active principle in the equation -- the top is getting the pleasure of watching the submissive respond... and the submissive is getting the sensation immersion that xhe craves as well. My reasoning for the above is this... when we're in an interaction with another person or other people, and it is a functional, healthy interaction, everyone involved is actually serving the -interaction-... we're all doing what we need to do to keep the interaction healthy. So, to me, the concept of "service top" or "service bottom" or whatever is redundant. As soon as it is clear that everyone is getting what they need out of the interaction, it is also understood that, whether it is the Keeper making sure the household is stable or the top making sure that the flogger is laid in such a way that it maximizes sensation, or whether it is the servant making sure that dinner is on the table and slippers are laid out after a long day for the breadwinner, or whether it is the bottom reveling in the sensations awakened by the needles the top is placing.... everyone is serving the -experience- in order to make that experience a good one all the way around. Does that make any sense? Calla

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/7/2010 11:13:01 AM)
quote: i was wondering how much of their pleasure is tied up in the subs pleasure and does the sub have to be orgasmic and in space for people to enjoy what theyre doing to them. lally, I hope it's ok that I respond to this as well... My focus tends to be more on the organic nature of the experience. Sometimes, the thing that makes the scene flow is -my- pleasure... for example, the artistry of placing needles just right, and forming the design and watching it take shape in steel, blood, and flesh... -that- is the rush. For the bottom, it can be -really- uncomfortable. Not just the needles, but having to stay in one position for extended periods of time in order to properly display the artistic representation. And, quite frankly, setting needles (especially with someone who isn't really -into- needles) can get really boring for the bottom... lots of repetitive small pains, plus the slow pains of holding a position -- sometimes an awkward one so I can get needles into particularly complicated places.Whether or not the bottom is orgasmic is less important than the pleasure we both eventually get out of me re-shaping hir essence with my tools. Sometimes, the people that I scene with don't really particularly -like- the activity that we're going to do... but when that happens, I know up front that the person is doing this on my behalf, which, frankly, as a sadistic intensity freak, gets me off in its own way. Sometimes, I scene with someone who is completely getting off on what I'm doing to them -- and that is a completely different set of sensations for me -- less of the sadist comes out there, because it's enjoyable for the bottom, and more of the sensationalist comes out as I want to maximize the experience for both of us... but in the end, it is the experience of the session that makes it either rewarding or not for everyone involved. In general, I want to know that everyone involved in a scene got something worthwhile (to hir) out of it -- sometimes it doesn't work out that way, but even when the activity isn't one that is particularly -pleasurable- for the bottom, most of the time we both come out of it satisfied, and glad to have had the experience together. Calla

leadership527 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/7/2010 12:25:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW My reasoning for the above is this... when we're in an interaction with another person or other people, and it is a functional, healthy interaction, everyone involved is actually serving the -interaction-... we're all doing what we need to do to keep the interaction healthy. nods That. I have to admit, the whole idea that "doing something which makes Carol happy" in any way diminishes me is simply not something I can adequately comprehend. I like making Carol happy. Making Carol happy is GOOD(tm).

lally2 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/7/2010 3:38:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW quote: i was wondering how much of their pleasure is tied up in the subs pleasure and does the sub have to be orgasmic and in space for people to enjoy what theyre doing to them. lally, I hope it's ok that I respond to this as well... My focus tends to be more on the organic nature of the experience. Sometimes, the thing that makes the scene flow is -my- pleasure... for example, the artistry of placing needles just right, and forming the design and watching it take shape in steel, blood, and flesh... -that- is the rush. For the bottom, it can be -really- uncomfortable. Not just the needles, but having to stay in one position for extended periods of time in order to properly display the artistic representation. And, quite frankly, setting needles (especially with someone who isn't really -into- needles) can get really boring for the bottom... lots of repetitive small pains, plus the slow pains of holding a position -- sometimes an awkward one so I can get needles into particularly complicated places.Whether or not the bottom is orgasmic is less important than the pleasure we both eventually get out of me re-shaping hir essence with my tools. Sometimes, the people that I scene with don't really particularly -like- the activity that we're going to do... but when that happens, I know up front that the person is doing this on my behalf, which, frankly, as a sadistic intensity freak, gets me off in its own way. Sometimes, I scene with someone who is completely getting off on what I'm doing to them -- and that is a completely different set of sensations for me -- less of the sadist comes out there, because it's enjoyable for the bottom, and more of the sensationalist comes out as I want to maximize the experience for both of us... but in the end, it is the experience of the session that makes it either rewarding or not for everyone involved. In general, I want to know that everyone involved in a scene got something worthwhile (to hir) out of it -- sometimes it doesn't work out that way, but even when the activity isn't one that is particularly -pleasurable- for the bottom, most of the time we both come out of it satisfied, and glad to have had the experience together. Calla thank you calla, up until recently ive been the sort to submit for the pleasure of my Dominant, although by the end, as you say, we are both satisfied with the outcome. though im not sure if that was always the intention with many of the Dominants ive been with in the past, my 'whatever it was' was more a by-product of my own processing at the end. reading all of this is helping me to understand a new agenda. that of submitting to something i want and need. in my head im not sure how that equates to submission, since its what i want and need and He is happy to provide it. i struggled for a while thinking that He would be doing something for me rather than for Himself and the whole thing of 'giving' is tipped all around in my head because He is doing the giving and im doing the taking. may i ask you and anyone else who might wish to answer - is it the surrender of the sub that makes all of this possible - in terms of youre enjoyment. in my new dynamic it is all about my surrender to Him - not so much implied, by dint of the fact that im there, but that i actively surrender my needs to Him for Him to take care of. i have never surrendered my needs before, ive only ever surrendered to their needs - ill confess its befuddling me a bit still. i can accept that His needs are tied into my surrender and that surrender gives Him the licence to Go and maybe thats all i need to know. i should probably shut up, im probably asking you to repeat youreself - its been a long day. x

leadership527 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/7/2010 5:33:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 reading all of this is helping me to understand a new agenda. that of submitting to something i want and need. in my head im not sure how that equates to submission, since its what i want and need and He is happy to provide it. Then do yourself a favor and take a chapter from my book. Who honestly gives a hoot what equates to "submission". I'm all about what makes Carol and I happy. I think of that as "keeping my eye on the ball". For Carol and I both, we tend to focus on what is within our control.. which is to say... OUR actions. I focus on how I'm contributing to the relationship. She focuses on how she's contributing. Perhaps you'd do less "spinning" on the topic Lally if you'd quit worry about what he was doing for you (so long as it works) and just focus all your efforts on doing as much as YOU can for the relationship.

lally2 -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/8/2010 12:44:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 reading all of this is helping me to understand a new agenda. that of submitting to something i want and need. in my head im not sure how that equates to submission, since its what i want and need and He is happy to provide it. Then do yourself a favor and take a chapter from my book. Who honestly gives a hoot what equates to "submission". I'm all about what makes Carol and I happy. I think of that as "keeping my eye on the ball". For Carol and I both, we tend to focus on what is within our control.. which is to say... OUR actions. I focus on how I'm contributing to the relationship. She focuses on how she's contributing. Perhaps you'd do less "spinning" on the topic Lally if you'd quit worry about what he was doing for you (so long as it works) and just focus all your efforts on doing as much as YOU can for the relationship. youre right - sometimes i try to understand things more than i need to. good advice

MsMillgrove -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/8/2010 1:46:50 AM)
If you are topping for the sheer pleasure of the other person, you are still topping. It is only when you are taking direction from the one on the bottom, when that person has delivered detailed instructions on what he/she expects--then you are a service top. Most service tops are prodommes or subs.. delivering the requested goods. A fine prodomme of course, shapes the session, so that she does achieve dominance and moves out of the area of service topping. There's a difference between giving someone an experience you know they'll like, not enjoying any particular pleasure yourself.. and service topping. The service requires the bottom to give specific directions (either during scene or ahead of time). I've topped people knowing what they liked and because I didn't deliver it to my own standards of excellence, I was not happy--but I didn't consider myself a service top, just a top who didn't get much out of it. That was my fault, so I changed the way I top to focus less on the tool perfection and more on the personal interaction during a session. It helped. (offtopic) I still don't know how you safely top those few stoics who refuse to show expression, make a sound or even flinch. This makes me nervous. I'd love to see a thread on that topic.. who likes the stoic type? and how do you proceed safely with so little info from them.

CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: "Service Top" as compared to being "Dominant" (7/8/2010 2:28:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 does the sub have to be turned on to promote this amazing feed back you guys get, or in sub space. whats the feed back you enjoy the most. Good question, thanks for asking us. Well, for the emotional D/s buzz I get...yes, I need the sub to be turned on as well as spacing. When he starts spacing, that's when my physical arousal really takes off and I feel like I'm holding onto that power source. I've recently found out that I get a different high from a scene when when I've given my sadistic side more leeway. It wasn't physically arousing, but intensely satisfying. quote: i was wondering how much of their pleasure is tied up in the subs pleasure and does the sub have to be orgasmic and in space for people to enjoy what theyre doing to them. being someone who is neither orgasmic or in space during pain A lot of my pleasure is tied up in the sub's pleasure, when I'm in it for the emotional D/s buzz. Maybe I am strange, but I separate pleasure from the thought of ending it too soon with an orgasm, so none of my scenes have involved orgasms. I did not restrict orgasms, except for maybe a few days before a scene, and a lot of my enjoyment also came from seeing them hard or with a semi for hours and hours, and then sending them home that way. With guys, I know they will wank off when they get home. If I were into fem subs, I wouldn't do this because I wouldn't want them to cramp up from teasing and orgasm denial. *Watching guys wank off seems too vanilla for me. Unless it was part of predicament torture and I was doing something horrible* that interfered with his ability to cum. [:D] Even when most of my enjoyment comes from sadism, I like to see them more addicted and wanting more...not regretful and considering returning to vanilla. The painplay I often stay at is mild, thuddy flogging that some have gotten very close to orgasm during this alone, so I don't think it's intense enough to interfere with orgasm.** During painplay that's more ouchie, my joy doesn't come from their spacing (though I'd love that) or being near orgasm (that would also be great), but by their trying to get away one moment and struggling to come back to me for more just a gasping breath later. That does something to me, more than I expected. (Something about him became beautiful to me and precious and fascinating. Maybe this was more valuable than an orgasm.)

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