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What If ? - 7/4/2010 6:32:10 PM

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From: Tamaris
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What if one day the president actually levels with the country and says we need to go to war to go and get what we need to keep the standard of living we have as the alternative is oil becoming more and more expensive to the point it starts to destroy the way we live and there affect the livelihood of everyone in America. It is a case of take what we need via war or suffer the consequences.

If the president came clean and said words to this affect, what would be the answer, would the American people prefer the truth, or would they prefer to continue to be lied to why these conflicts seem to need America's blood in far away lands ?

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RE: What If ? - 7/4/2010 6:40:18 PM

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Just out of curiosity, how would a man that willing to be blunt and straightforward become the president?

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RE: What If ? - 7/4/2010 6:53:17 PM

AQuietSimpleMan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

Just out of curiosity, how would a man that willing to be blunt and straightforward become the president?

Game, Set, Match.

Next player.

QSM

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RE: What If ? - 7/4/2010 10:54:22 PM

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FR

About 30% of us commoners now see what is going on, but most of them need more detail.

Even in the light, if 100% knew the truth, about 45% of them would support taking what we want by force. I have heard it from their own mouths. Not a majority, but plenty of people do not care how they get what they want.

Any other questions ?

T

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RE: What If ? - 7/4/2010 11:06:53 PM

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What was that Falklands thing about?

Who`s SOL improved over that bit of folly?

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RE: What If ? - 7/4/2010 11:26:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What if one day the president actually levels with the country and says we need to go to war to go and get what we need to keep the standard of living we have as the alternative is oil becoming more and more expensive to the point it starts to destroy the way we live and there affect the livelihood of everyone in America. It is a case of take what we need via war or suffer the consequences.

If the president came clean and said words to this affect, what would be the answer, would the American people prefer the truth, or would they prefer to continue to be lied to why these conflicts seem to need America's blood in far away lands ?

At that point it wouldn't be the middle east, they'd be dry by then.
Probably Russia or Brazil.
But, we have another 75 - 100 years before that scenario plays out.

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RE: What If ? - 7/4/2010 11:33:49 PM

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I do not think it will be that long popster, I'm thinking like five. But who's to say, and time will tell. So much for that.

T

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 4:45:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

What was that Falklands thing about?

Who`s SOL improved over that bit of folly?

A PR stunt. The main thrust of that was letting the red tops talk up Thatcher as a strong and assertive Prime Minister, distracting the public's attention from the other stuff she was up to.

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 7:39:05 AM

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Because even that is not the truth.

More like- the ABC widget corporation needs us to invade to boost corporate profits.

Besides they have computer programs to figure out the masses. It is all decided for us.

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 11:33:29 AM

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Try mentioning who it is you're fast replying in future, eh?

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 1:07:50 PM

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What you are talking about is a war of conquest, and the United States does not have a military that could possibly bring it off. Look at the trouble we are having in Iraq and Afghanistan in just holding what we got. We cant expand the humanitarian effort simply because it is not safe to do so.

And contrary to Hunk's theory, corporations are not the ones that push for war. War has a negative impact on profits, primarily because more money is spent with a select few companies that are engaged in military contracts. The United States went from a bullets and butter economy to a just a consumer economy with the end of the cold war. It would take a few years to rebuild that type of economy and in the present economic crisis, we dont have the time.

Want to end unemployment, re-institute the the draft, start funding "Defense projects" that actually rebuild the American infrastructure. The interstate highway system was originally designed as a way to move military hardware rapidly from point a to point b, and the railroad network is also in dire need of repair should the military ever need to use it.

Draft men and women into the military with an emphasis on Construction related jobs.

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 1:35:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Draft men and women into the military with an emphasis on Construction related jobs.

You can't operate a Theodolite and a gun at the same time. I see those Royal Engineers try but at some point they are going to have to take their eye off the ball and look through the Theodolite.

So the result is you either end up with wonky buildings or dead Engineers or both.

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 3:21:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Draft men and women into the military with an emphasis on Construction related jobs.

You can't operate a Theodolite and a gun at the same time. I see those Royal Engineers try but at some point they are going to have to take their eye off the ball and look through the Theodolite.

So the result is you either end up with wonky buildings or dead Engineers or both.

The US Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for inspecting and maintaining the infrastructure of the United States. Instead of having them contract the work out, put the Corp of Engineers in the job of actually repairing the infrastructure. Use government personnel to do the work, supervise the work and quite wasting Billions, actually TRILLIONS of dollars that have been earmarked for various Interstate Highway projects that have yet to be even started due to the limited number of private contractors with the ability to do the damn work.

They will be working on domestic projects and not have to worry about aiming a damn gun.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 3:48:17 PM

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They would say America is a socialist state.

You have to inject a layer of corporate shares profit and bean counting between the people with the skills and the paymasters to prevent this damn socialism!

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 7/5/2010 3:51:37 PM >

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RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 4:01:46 PM

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It would put people to work and fix up the damn infrastructure. When you consider that even the state Highway departments contract out large projects, which again leads us back to the problem of not enough firms to handle the projects already funded.

The people of the United States keep screaming that this kind of massive infrastructure renovation would cost trillions. What they dont realize is many of these projects are already funded, just no one to do the work. Why not make the Army corp of engineers the general contractor, providing the majority of labor and subcontracting out some of the work.

The projects get done, people are working, and the amount of raw materials will affect other areas of the economy. And before you claim that ripple economics wont work, please remember that during the Reagan administration a law was passed requiring US Government agencies etc had to buy from american suppliers.

So, if you need steel to fix highways and rail roads, and the US Army corps of Engineers is the general contractor it means they have to buy from AMERICAN suppliers. Thus the steel industry expands to meet demands, the companies that supply the steel industry expands, the companies that support them expands, not to mention the companies that build the equipment needed to do the jobs expand cause the corp of engineers has to buy the stuff to do the frigging work.

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Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

RE: What If ? - 7/5/2010 4:09:55 PM

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The only thing missing from your equation is competitive tendering, this is the biggest factor in reducing costs.

It's not possible to build half the buildings that exist in the UK for the price they were tendered at but contractors undercut one another knowing they can squeeze their suppliers and design team in terms of penalties for not meeting deadlines of supplying goods on time. They depend on this tactic and use it to give very good value for money whilst still making a profit. Public organisations just aren't that cut throat in nature.

Ideally big contracts should be broken down as much as possible so that you can evaluate delivery performance before awarding new chunks. Waste always occurs when big contracts are awarded because it creates dependency on too few institutions.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 7/5/2010 4:24:40 PM >

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