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Going organic - 7/11/2010 9:28:19 AM

allthatjaz

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I would be interested to know how many amongst us use organic food products.
I think many people have gone through binge organic eating but because it tends to be more expensive, harder to find and not last as long, people give up and go back to pesticide and hormone induced food.
How much do you understand about food processing?
Would you consider going organic?
Are you against organic produce and if so why?

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 9:37:32 AM

DarkSteven

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I'm trying to grow my own.

In the store, I buy organic apples because I don't need to wash them and they don't last long, so the shorter shelf life isn't an issue. But normally I'm too cheap to go organic.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 10:15:13 AM

MissAsylum

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been doing organic for the most part for 4 or 5 years. its was very hard to do organic my first year since i was a college student. i lived on campus and even the veggie food had taken many sort cuts to be able to feed thousands of us. even though i wasn't paying for school because of grants and scholarships, i didn't always have enough money to but strictly organically cultivated and raised food. if i did, it was food that i always ate right away so i wouldn't end up wasting it. now, i have a portable green house that a past sub built for me with proper heating functions so i grow most of the food i eat. i still crave processed food(like ben & jerry's) but whole diet doesn't consit of them. i feel its better to just go for healthier choices rather than organic all the time. also eating at places that cook with FRESH ingredients helps too.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 10:23:35 AM

allthatjaz

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I think its great if you can grow your own. I agree about stuff not lasting as long Stephen. Nobody wants food wastage. I think they are getting better and better at organic produce though and the more people buy, the more it will come down in price.

I'm very much like you MissAsylum. It does restrict your diet but the benefits are well worth it. Have you noticed a difference in your health and weight?

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 10:36:26 AM

Tantriqu

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Organic food is another money scam foisted on consumers. It's still made on the same megafarm as the regular produce but costs 1/3rd more, doesn't last as long, and is dirtier [the two most likely foodstuffs to cause infectious disease are bean sprouts and strawberries from improper organic fertiliser, i.e., poo].

I'm all for home-grown, though.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 11:29:48 AM

DreamyLadySnow

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I buy organic produce when it's available/affordable/looks good because it tastes better.
I practically live at the local farmers markets in the summer as well...YUM!
Considering how far produce has to be trucked to make it to our shelves in winter, stricly organic doesn't work too well here year round.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 11:46:36 AM

BonesFromAsh

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Warning....this is gonna be a long post....sorry!

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I would be interested to know how many amongst us use organic food products.
I think many people have gone through binge organic eating but because it tends to be more expensive, harder to find and not last as long, people give up and go back to pesticide and hormone induced food.

How much do you understand about food processing?

A smart consumer is an informed consumer. I've been told it might be better for me to not know so much.

Would you consider going organic?

As in buying/eating organic food/products? When it's practical, I do. Generally, though, I prefer locally grow produce/meat from sustainable farms.

Are you against organic produce and if so why?

Not so much against it. I'm against the comericialization of the idea of organic as being the best way. I would rather buy an apple that was grown in season on a local farm using sustainable practices then to go to a market and buy an apple labeled organic that was grown and shipped from Argentina. This is just common sense in my opinion.

I get my eggs from a co-worker who lets his chickens roam the yard eating whatever grass and bugs that come along. He laughingly calls them "free range" and charges me half what the "organic" eggs at the supermarket cost.

I buy most of my beef from a woman who runs a farm with her husband. The farm has been in his family for 3 generations. They maintain a herd of no more than 50 black angus and less than that many pigs because they understand the necessity of proper land stewardship and any more than that would over-tax the land. Their idea of success isn't "bigger is better".

I buy raw milk from another farmer. I try to eat what's in season and store/freeze what isn't so I have good food for the winter. I bought a 30lb bag of apples last fall (not organic but grown on a farm the uses sustainable methods) and stored them in a large sealed bin in the shed behind my cottage. I finished the last one sometime in March...it was just fine for baking with a bit of honey (from a local beekeeper) and some raisins.

My point is not to beat my own drum but to show that paying attention to what's in your food...where it comes from...how it's grown...isn't that difficult if people just take the time to be educated.

I think people read "organic" on a label and assume it comes from a happy little farm without realizing organic farming is a big business.

I'm more interested in supporting local sustainable farms that practice a holistic approach to farming and animal husbandry. If it also happens to include organic practices...great.

Here's a couple links for anyone who's interested...

http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/organic/ Discusses the pros/cons/differences of organic vs sustainable farming.

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/ Joel Salatin rocks! I recommend getting a copy of his book "Everything I Want to do is Illegal" and watch any of the youtube videos about him and his farming practices. Here's two my my favorites... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T9UaP1AsMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYWYU5V8JOo&feature=related

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/organcert.html#steps The steps a farmer needs to go through to be certified orgaic by the USDA

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 7/11/2010 11:54:09 AM >

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 11:52:14 AM

MissAsylum

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as far as weight goes, when i cut around 85% of the processed foods out, around 10lbs just vanished within a few weeks. health wise, i feel much better than i did before. my endurance has improved and i'm more energised. it made quitting smoking easier because i didnt need a constant pick me up. sure it costs more, but feeling better is worth it.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 11:58:51 AM

KatyLied

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Organic is important, so is the use of heirloom seeds and choosing local farmers who feed animals the appropriate diet. I sometimes buy organic, and I also support local farms and farmer's markets. I recently watched "Food, Inc" and I am in disbelief at the way our country deals with agriculture.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 12:33:28 PM

allthatjaz

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BonesFromAsh, I like how you think and thanks for the links. I don't have time to go through them tonight but I will be looking at them in detail.
As you and others have said, choosing local farmers is a good choice, so long as they are not using pesticides that are poisoning our bodies.
One of the things that really concerns me is packaging and what is gassing out from that packaging into our food.

MissAsylum thanks for getting back to me on that. Estrogen's go into a lot of processed food and its especially prevalent in none organic pesticides. Estrogen dominance is known to cause wait gain. I also read a medical report recently that stated that men of today that live on processed foods are only 40% male compared to their grandfathers.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 1:00:36 PM

littlewonder

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I only buy organic at local farmers markets and only if the person selling it is local since the fumes from the trucks kinda destroys the whole purpose of organic imo.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 1:11:34 PM

January

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quote:

I also read a medical report recently that stated that men of today that live on processed foods are only 40% male compared to their grandfathers.

Is that "40% less male" based on sperm count? Testosterone level?

Like Steven, I grow a lot of my own. That means we don't eat organic apples, even though we have an apple tree. Yup, the worms get em. No apples for us. Turns out, organic apples are hard to grow. Tomatoes are easy, though. And if the weather co-operates, we get tons of organic apricots, and if the birds don't eat them all, organic sour cherries. I think everyone who prefers organic food should try growing produce without chemicals. Then they'd understand why organic is so expensive...

I'm in agreement with BonesfromAsh: the organic movement can be considered an offshot of being "green"--if one is concerned about sustainability.

But lots of folks are organic ONLY because they are afraid of eating pesticides/hormones/what not. My neighbors are like that. They frequent the organic stores, jumping in their huge SUV to get there, followed by spraying herbicides (accidentally) onto our grass (okay with them, because hey, people don't eat grass, and hey it was accidental). These same folks are big recyclers. Sort of. In theory. They fail to contain their recycling, so it all blows into my yard on recycling day. I personally am SO happy when I get a sour cream container in my bushes. Because it's organic sour cream!

Some "organic" folks want to live forever, but they don't give a crap about anyone else. It's a self-absorbed endeavor, and not one I'm impressed with. But as long as it's not a measure of their superiority, I think eating organic is fine.

But often what they do is not green.

January

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 1:14:20 PM

MissJana

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I have just started recently eating whole foods and organic and the first cpl weeks lost almost 10 lbs. I am feeling a lot more energetic and am not needing the caffeine I was so addicted to. It is more expensive ,but on the other hand, I am saving money by not buying so much soda and processed foods and preparing more food at home. I do go out to eat about once or twice a week and have to be really careful on what I choose to eat. I find if I eat stuff made with refined flour (breads, pasta) I feel horribly bloated.

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RE: Going organic - 7/11/2010 1:28:49 PM

BonesFromAsh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

BonesFromAsh, I like how you think and thanks for the links. I don't have time to go through them tonight but I will be looking at them in detail.
As you and others have said, choosing local farmers is a good choice, so long as they are not using pesticides that are poisoning our bodies.
One of the things that really concerns me is packaging and what is gassing out from that packaging into our food.

allthatjaz, I hope you enjoy the links. The second one I posted about Joel Salatin, if you move ahead to the 18:48 mark, he makes the comment about organic isn't suppose to mean organic twinkies. I thought that was great and fit with my impression of what many people think it is to buy organic.

I have a friend who does just that, buys packaged/processed food that's labeled organic and feels it's better for her than conventional processed stuff. That, in my opinion, is just a marketing ploy. Buying a bag of tortilla chips that's labeled organic and assuming they're better for you is nonsense...a chip is a chip regardless of whether or not it's made from organic ingrediants.
It all comes down to marketing.

As to the bolded part of your reply, the idea of sustainable farming, at least the farmers I know and buy from, usually includes the practice of little to no pesticide usuage. It all comes down to being educated...asking how they grow their foods and whether or not pesticides are used. Most farmers will have no problem discussing this and I've even had a couple who have invited me to come and do a bit of "hands on" learning about just what their farming practices entail.

BTW.... I read your post on another thread on commune living http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3304883 and just smiled at the image....the two of you are very fortunate indeed.

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RE: Going organic - 7/12/2010 1:57:18 AM

allthatjaz

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Thanks BonesFromAsh, Unfortunately, living on a boat doesn't give us the opportunity to grow much of our own stuff. I do collect wild herbs and mushrooms and dry them and when we are on land, I do get the opportunity to grow a few things but its never enough.

MissJana, its interesting about you losing weight. The xenoestrogens that we are exposed to in processed and non green foods are highly estrogenic and thats especially so in things like red meat and dairy fats. Estrogen overload isn't only a carcinogen but builds weight too.

January... you asked 'Is that "40% less male" based on sperm count? Testosterone level? There are a wide array of scientists that are studying the effects of xenobiotics and xenoestrogens which are impregnated not only into food through pesticides and meat cattle via cattle feed but also into food packaging. These scientists have proved beyond doubt that an overload of these substances (which remain very stable in the human body) can cause infertility in women and mess up a mans testosterone levels.
Scientists at the University of California have been studying birds that graze on grain fields containing pesticides and the results are, huge thyroid glands, feminization of male, reproductive tracts, ovarian cortical tissue in testes and eggshell thinning. Scientists at the University of Florida in Gainsville found that both male and female alligators that live in rivers exposed to pesticide fields, have an abnormally high level of estrogen and low levels of testosterone. Additionally, the females have abnormal ovaries which are 'burnt out' and the males have abnormally small penises.

I think we all deserve to educate ourselves and then make our own choices. Unfortunately its almost impossible to escape Xenoestrogens in the western world because they are in virtually everything but it is possible to reduce them substantially.

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RE: Going organic - 7/12/2010 2:47:51 AM

areallivehuman

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Interesting. I firmly believe that the tumor on my prostate gland is caused by 50 years of ingesting polluted animal fat. When I insisted that my testosterone levels be checked, sure enough, very low. And after 2+ years of an animal free diet, my testosterone levels are starting to increase.

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RE: Going organic - 7/12/2010 3:40:51 AM

allthatjaz

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Really sorry to hear you have been through something like that areallivehuman. It sounds like you have taken action over your own health and I do hope that things get even better from here on in.

Maria

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RE: Going organic - 7/12/2010 4:20:14 AM

DemonKia

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I'm kind of an ardent environmentalist.

I quit driving a car in '96, for instance. I walk, ride a bike, take the bus, rollerblade, etc. I live a deliberately low-consumption lifestyle. Etc etc . ....

Probably about half the produce I eat is some combo of locally grown, no-pesticide, or organic. Mostly, for me, it's taste & convenience constrained by my extreme tightwad tendencies. & I'm lucky enough to live where there's thriving local farmers' market options & a coupla 'natural food stores', hippie co-ops, most of the 'regular' grocery stores carry organic produce, that kinda thang. Plus a local Trader-Joe's that carries quite a bit of reasonably priced mass-marketed organics, which I like. I'm a lazy progressive plenty & I like organic frozen broccoli florets for a very decent price, thank you very much.

My son's also been dabbling in growing food in our yard last summer & this . . . ..

I do it more for the structural reasons than any concern for my safety. Part of why I buy 'big corporate organics' is because I think all agricultural production should be way more organic (& sustainable & local & etc), & I'm willing to work with a baby-steps approach to lots of stuff in life . . . . ..

Frankly, pollution is a far bigger source of toxins in ordinary lives than pesticides in food, for instance. Things like off-gassing plastic, the ubiquitous production of dioxins as a side-effect of vast swathes of industrial living, oil spills at sea, & systemic gaseous pollution emissions (cars, factories, et al), etc etc etc. I could go on & on & on & on & on, but it gets depressing, ya know . .. .

There's some disproportionality that can creep into discussions about pesticides in food, organics, et al, where fears & anxieties from others spheres of ones life can excessively tinge the risk perception of food safety. For example, as a low-income American I'm acutely aware of the vast shittiness of our health-care delivery system, but there's darn little I can do about it in the immediate moment. Darn little I can do in the medium term, too. But I can submerge those anxieties & feelings of powerlessness by focusing more (disproportionally) on that which I can do something about. What I eat, drink, breath, etc.

Similar framing can be applied to worries about general pollution of industrial living & etc . .. . .

Nice thread, thanks!

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RE: Going organic - 7/12/2010 5:02:58 AM

allthatjaz

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Good to see you DemonKia!

Interesting that you brought up 'gassing plastics'.
Plastics in general don't worry me too much because they are a universal source of xenoestrogens and just about impossible to eliminate from modern living. The one thing I will never do though, is microwave food in a plastic container because some plastics shed/out gas when heated. Most plastics that go through a 10 degree temperature change will out gas.

I do care about the safety of my body and what I am putting in it. After a health scare where my specialist decided that my best and only option was to go through female castration, I decided to look into how and why this was happening to me. Every single symptom of what I was suffering pointed towards estrogen dominance but when I mentioned this to my specialist he just said 'most women your age are going through estrogen dominance'. Unsatisfied with his answer I did my own research and discovered that women of my age living in 3rd world countries are not condemned to become diseased with hormone imbalance when they reach their mid forties or early fifties. I also discovered that back in the 40's and 50's before the new age of pesticides and plastic living, women of my age range suffered no such thing. So where did all this estrogen come from? surely at my age it should of been depleting and not ravaging my body and making me ill. The truth is, its in everything that's petrochemical based and virtually impossible to rid from ones life, but we can do certain things to protect ourselves and in a very positive way, thats what I am doing.

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RE: Going organic - 7/12/2010 7:07:14 PM

areallivehuman

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Marla, thanks for the note.
Have you ever read anything by a guy named Roger Mason? Try youngagain.org. , I think his booklets are free as PDFs. He is a vitamin salesman but speaks of exactly that, hormone balancing. I don't remember the specifics for females, search "No More Horse Estrogen." His pamphlet about prostate disease was one of the first "alternatives" I read. He does extol a vegan diet, supplements, hormone balnacing, fasting.
I'm not supplementing testosterone..... yet. I'm actually doing OK on my own. Of course I haven't run across a doctor who will prescribe it. Are you supplementing hormones?
Castration, hell yes, that's exactly what it amounted to with me too. At 50? Because of a blood test? No symptoms? No thanks.
I'm strict with my diet, organic isn't so important to me. If the price isn't too bad ok. I do grow a good portion of my vegtables now, and eat only fresh vegtables, brown rice, beans, whole wheat pasta, Fritos, beer, coffee and Irish whiskey. I'm so healthy now it's almost disgusting.

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