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Female & Aspie - 7/11/2010 12:26:02 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		AKA Aspergrrlz, lol . ... .

It presents somewhat differently in females, typically being more 'hidden'. Various stuff I found online about being aspie & female, which serve to supplement & complement the usual descriptions of guys with Asperger Syndrome. Oh, & as per usual, it's mostly aimed at diagnosing & treating children:



From: http://www.newsweek.com/id/168868

"...Of course, it's not just different symptoms that stymie diagnosis—cultural conditioning may also play a role. What looks like pathological social awkwardness in a little boy can seem like mere bashfulness or just good old-fashioned manners in a little girl. "We tend to notice shyness in boys as 'off,'" says Loveland. "In girls, we can almost see it as a good trait." And while boys are often diagnosed when they begin expressing their frustration as aggression and find themselves in trouble at school, girls —even Aspie girls—learn to internalize their feelings, not to act out, which can make them more anxious and less noticeable at the same time."

"But even as they effectively mask Asperger's in girls, social mores might also make the disorder more harrowing for them. As they approach adolescence, girls face greater pressure to be sympathetic and empathetic than boys do. "By the time girls reach junior high, their social networks have become extraordinarily complex, and Aspie girls can't keep up with all the nuances," says Janet Lainhart, a doctor at the University of Utah's Brain Institute. "Boys struggle socially as well, but their peers mature much slower so their inability to empathize is seen as more forgivable."..."

"...Despite the urgent need for more research, Klin says that scientists who study ASDs have effectively orphaned this population. Because there are so few of them, girls are often yanked from studies altogether so that they don't muddy up the data. As a result, only a very small body of work addresses the Asperger's gender gap, even though such studies could lead to better diagnosis of both autism and Asperger's...."

[Emphasis mine.]



from: http://www.byparents-forparents.com/asperger-syndrome-girls.html

Asperger Syndrome and Girls

When Austrian doctor Hans Asperger first identified Asperger Syndrome in 1944, he believed that only boys could have it. In fact, for a long time, scientists believed that autism in all its forms was an extreme form of "maleness." For example, a high-functioning autistic boy often has intellectual abilities in "male" fields like engineering and mathematics, and yet no social understanding of emotions and body language - traditional "female" strengths.

Beginning in the 1960s, scientists tried to understand how Asperger Syndrome was inherited. Their theory was that boys inherit only one male X chromosome from their mothers, but girls inherit two (one from each parent). Therefore, girls do not develop Asperger Syndrome because the extra X chromosome from their fathers somehow "protects" them from it. However, this research has been inconclusive.

The new theory is that just as many girls have Asperger Syndrome, but they are not diagnosed because they "present" the syndrome differently than boys do. All Aspie children have problems reading social cues and body language, knowing the right thing to do in public, waiting their turns, and developing empathy for others. However, when boys get frustrated, they tend to act out in aggressive ways that get adult attention. Aspie girls tend to suffer in silence and appear shy and passive. Adults overlook their problems, and that is why five boys to every girl are diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome.

Aspie girls typically use their average to above-average intelligence to hide their social difficulties. Pretending To Be Normal is the title of an autobiography by Liane Holliday-Willey, a famous Aspie. It could be the title of most Aspie girls' life stories. Since they do not understand how to process and express emotions in a normal way, their faces often develop a "mask-like" quality. Typically, they put a permanent smile on their faces and constantly try to please others. Some social scientists believe that girls are better at developing such ways of camouflaging their disorder because they are socialized to be passive.

Girls with Asperger's learn to mimic what other children do. However, without role models, they cannot figure out what to do on their own. They often memorize scripts when they have to interact with others. For example, one girl keeps chanting, "No thank you, I'm just looking," every time she has to enter a store.

Most little girls play with dolls, but they use them to act out little psychodramas and fairy tales with one another. Aspie girls are more likely to enjoy arranging them. They may alphabetize their Barbies by outfit, for example. They enjoy playing dolls by themselves and find the other girls' creative play boring or disruptive.

According to Dr. Tony Attwood, a leading expert on Asperger Syndrome, Aspie boys often appear like "little professors" who are expert in one subject. However, Aspie girls are more like "little philosophers." They may wonder if all people see the same color as blue, for instance, or analyze the meaning of the word "mind." They often appear odd or cold, or seem to live in fantasy worlds. They may love animals, but in an obsessive way. For example, if an Aspie girl loves horses, she may want to spend every waking hour riding, grooming her horse, or even sleeping in the stable.

In elementary school, these girls often cope by finding one good friend. This friend is often kind and motherly, and her friendship is a lifeline to the girls with Asperger's Syndrome. In fact, if she moves away, it has devastating consequences. Another way that young girls cope with their disorder is by playing with boys. Male games are rule-oriented and do not require as much social and emotional understanding as female interactions do.

Girls with Asperger Syndrome often develop deeper problems as teenagers. During a time in life when everyone else is obsessed with fashion and fads, Asperger teens often dress in a haphazard way, not following fashion but preferring to wear the same comfortable outfit day after day. They may not wash or use deodorant unless prompted by their families. They may still enjoy toys and games that were popular in grammar school. They may not have the organizational skills needed for high school level work. When their parents try to bring them up to speed and to help them conform to their world, many girls with Asperger's rebel from what they perceive as constant parental criticism.

Teen girls with Asperger Syndrome often find female friendships to be very demanding and even overwhelming. They don't understand their adolescent friends' extreme emotional ups and downs - why they cry when they get a failing grade or if a boy does not call. Author Diane Kennedy quotes a "Dear John" letter written by an Aspie girl to her best friend, "Your expectations exhaust me. The phone calls, the girl talk, the whole feelings thing. It's too much for me anymore."

One constant worry for parents is that their teenage daughter will be the victim of a sexual predator. This is a valid worry, for Asperger girls are often naïve about sex. They misinterpret boys' signals and allow them to use them.

The modern way of thinking is that the sooner a girl is diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome and receives professional help, the better. Using modern learning tools, she can learn to read facial expressions and body language. She can develop the skills she will need for independent living as an adult. The earlier she gets help, the less she suffers in silence.

[Emphasis mine.]



from: http://autismaspergerssyndrome.suite101.com/article.cfm/girls_with_aspergers_syndrome

Invisibility Strategies

Girls with AS are adept at disappearing within a large group, staying safely at the periphery without really interacting socially. When they do participate, they may be at risk for bullying by other girls.

While male bullies are more likely to engage in physical aggression, female bullies tend to use relational aggression strategies, such as making comments designed to tarnish the reputations of others. Because they are less inclined to be “bitchy” or “fickle” in their interactions and so have no defense against relational aggression, girls with AS are often befriended by at least one kind, socially skilled girl who feels compassion for her naive companion. The establishment of one or more such friendships can make it appear as though the girl with AS has a “normal” social life. However, it is the other girl or girls who generally make the friendship overtures, and some girls with AS prefer to spend time with boys, as they are often more straightforward and thus send fewer confusing social signals.

Camouflaging Strategies

Girls with AS may appear to use ordinary gestures and facial expressions during a conversation and to reciprocate appropriately. However, in many cases they are basing these gestures, facial expressions and responses on someone they have observed who is socially adept. Additionally, they use their intellect rather than natural social intuition to choose the correct responses.

Due to the need to copy a more socially skilled individual in given situations, girls with AS will often wait quietly on the sidelines in new social situations until they learn the rules of the game, after which they are able to imitate the correct responses that other children have made. However, if the nature of the game changes the strategy fails, and the social deficits become apparent.

Seemingly Normal Interests

Autistic spectrum disorders are characterized by narrow, obsessive interests. Although boys who are obsessed with trains or bus schedules tend to stand out, there are few who question a young girl’s obsession with dolls, horses, or even building toys such as LEGO. However, a girl with AS who likes dolls will usually prefer to play with them alone rather than with other children. She will probably have a much larger collection than other girls, and she will spend time arranging them in various configurations (such as alphabetical order). She will have more interest in organizing and categorizing than creating social storylines for them.

Avoiding Physical Activities

Because girls are less inclined to engage in rough-and-tumble play, their difficulties with motor coordination may be less apparent. Girls with AS may avoid physical activities in which their motor skill deficits would be noticeable.

Key Differences

Overall, girls are raised to be sociable, and as such, girls with AS tend to devote more effort to learning the required social cues and scripts. Girls will turn their considerable intellectual skills to the task of analysing social interactions and conventions. Additionally, they are less inclined to develop the conduct disorders that attract notice among boys with autism spectrum disorders.

Girls with Asperger’s Syndrome will in many cases come across as “little professors” in the same way that boys do, speaking in a pedantic manner, displaying an impressive vocabulary and talking obsessively on subjects of interest. However, due to their stronger social abilities, such behaviors in girls are more likely to be taken for general intelligence than as evidence of an autism spectrum disorder.



Both of the following came from: http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/wp_a58d4f6a.html
Written by Rudy Simone, copyright 2009.

from: http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/images/img244154ad237783e339.JPG

List of Female Asperger Syndrome (AS) Traits:

Appearance / Personal Habits:

  • Dresses comfortably due to sensory issues & practicality.
  • Will not spend much time on grooming and hair. Hairstyles usually have to be 'wash and wear'. Can be quite happy not grooming at all at times.
  • Eccentric personality; may be reflected in appearance.
  • Is youthful for her age, in looks, dress, behavior and tastes.
  • Usually a little more expressive in face and gesture than male counterparts.
  • May have many androgynous traits despite an outwardly feminine appearance. Thinks of herself as half-male / half-female.
  • May not have a strong sense of identity and can be very chameleon-like, especially before diagnosis.
  • Enjoys reading and films as a retreat, often scifi, fantasy, children's, can have favorites which are a refuge.
  • Uses control as a stress management technique: rules, discipline, rigid in certain habits, which will contradict her seeming unconventionality.
  • Usually happiest at home or in other controlled environments.


Intellectual / Giftedness / Education / Vocation:

  • May have been diagnosed as autistic or Asperger's when young, or may have been thought of as gifted, shy, sensitive, etc. May also have had obvious or severe learning deficits.
  • Often musical, artistic.
  • May have a savant skill or strong talent.
  • May have a strong interest in computers, games, science, graphic design, inventing, things of a technological and visual nature. More verbal thinkers may gravitate to writing, languages, cultural studies, psychology.
  • May be a self-taught reader, been hyperlexic as a child, and will possess a wide variety of other self-taught skills as well.
  • May be highly educated but will have had to struggle with social aspects of college. May have one or many partial degrees.
  • Can be very passionate about a course of study or job, and then change direction or go completely cold on it very quickly.
  • Will often have trouble holding onto a job and may find employment daunting.
  • Highly intelligent, yet sometimes can be slow to comprehend due to sensory and cognitive processing issues.
  • Will not do well with verbal instruction -- needs to write down or draw diagram.
  • Will have obsessions but they are not as unusual as her male counterpart's (less likely to be a 'train-spotter').


Emotional / Physical:

  • Emotionally immature and emotionally sensitive.
  • Anxiety and fear are predominant emotions.
  • More open to talking about feelings and emotional issues than males with AS.
  • Strong sensory issues -- sounds, sights, smells, touch, and prone to overload. (Less likely to have taste / food texture issues as males.)
  • Moody and prone to bouts of depression. May have been diagnosed as bi-polar or manic depressive (common comorbids of autism / AS) while the AS diagnosis was missed.
  • Probably given several different prescriptions to treat symptoms. Will be very sensitive to medications and anything else she puts in her body so may have had adverse reactions.
  • 9 out of 10 have mild to severe gastro-intestinal difficulties -- eg, ulcers, acid reflux, IBS, etc.
  • Stims to soothe when sad or agitated: rocking, face-rubbing, humming, finger flicking, leg bouncing, finger or foot-tapping, etc.
  • Similarly physical when happy: hand flapping, clapping, singing, jumping, running around, dancing, bouncing.
  • Prone to temper or crying meltdowns, even in public, sometimes over seemingly small things due to sensory or emotional overload.
  • Hates injustice and hates to be misunderstood; this can incite anger and rage.
  • Prone to mutism when stressed or upset, esp. after a meltdown. Less likely to stutter than male counterparts but may have a raspy voice, monotone at times, when stressed or sad.


Social / Relationships:

  • Words and actions are often misunderstood by others.
  • Perceived to be cold-natured and self-centered; unfriendly.
  • Is very outspoken at times, may get very fired up when talking about passions / obsessive interests.
  • Can be very shy or mute.
  • Like her male counterpart, will shut down in social situations once overloaded, but is generally better at socializing in small doses. May even give the appearance of skilled, but it is a 'performance'.
  • Doesn't go out much. Will prefer to go out with partner only or children if she has them.
  • Will not have many girlfriends and will not do 'girly' things like shopping with them or have get-togethers to 'hang out'.
  • Will have a close friend or friends in school, but not once adulthood is reached.
  • May or may not want to have a relationship. If she is in a relationship, she probably takes it very seriously, but she may choose to remain celibate or alone.
  • Due to sensory issues, will either really enjoy sex or strongly dislike it.
  • If she likes a male, she can be extremely, noticeably awkward in her attempts to let him know, eg she may stare when she sees him or call him repeatedly. This is because she fixates and doesn't understand societal gender roles. This will change with maturity.
  • Often prefers the company of animals but not always due to sensory issues.


from: http://www.help4aspergers.com/pb/wp_a58d4f6a/images/img287904ad237f1d2ab3.JPG

Summary of Some Main Female / Male AS Differences:

  • Usually a little more expressive in face and gesture than male counterparts.
  • Better at mirroring than males and so may mirror many different types of personalities. Hence females may not have a strong sense of identity, and can be very chameleon-like, especially before diagnosis.
  • Will have obsessions but they are not as abstruse or unusual as her male counterpart's and tend to be more practical (eg, less likely to be a 'trainspotter').
  • More open to talking about feelings and emotional issues than males with AS.
  • Less likely to receive early, correct diagnosis because the criteria is based on male behaviors / traits. (Hans Asperger studied males only.) More likely to be diagnosed as bi-polar or manic-depressive (common co-morbids of autism / AS).
  • Physical gestures / behaviors when happy more expressive than males: hand flapping, clapping, singing, jumping up and down, running around, dancing, bouncing -- this pertains to adult women as well as girls.
  • Adult females are prone to both temper and crying meltdowns, even in public, sometimes over seemingly small things due to sensory or emotional overload. Hunger / food issues seem to be a common trigger. Adult males [with AS] not prone to crying.
  • Tends to receive less tolerance and more expectation from others, because she appears more adept.
  • Hate injustice and hates to be misunderstood; this can incite anger and rage meltdowns.
  • Less likely to stutter than male counterparts when stressed or upset; both may have raspy, choked or monotone voice or suffer mutism.
  • Females are generally better at socializing in small doses. May even give the appearance of skilled, but it is a 'performance'. Like her male counterpart, will shut down in social situations once overloaded.
  • More likely to keep pets for emotional support but not always due to sensory issues.




For those wondering about what's up with me, I realized some months ago that I'm at least mildly aspie. I'm pretty sure both my father & my younger son have it, too.

Anyways, I've been having a bit of a rethink about loads of stuff around this. It both explains so much about myself (& my dad & all the offspring, frankly), & presents a huge game-change.

I have some more thoughts I'd like to share, but this is a goodly data dump all on its own, so, please, feel free to converse . . . .. ..

_____________________________

Snarko ergo sum.



The Verbossinator
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RE: Female & Aspie - 7/11/2010 6:50:46 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		For example, if an Aspie girl loves horses, she may want to spend every waking hour riding, grooming her horse, or even sleeping in the stable.

Re this one line: my experience is that all girls under 14 who love horses are like this. And above 14 about half drift away to prefer to spend their time with boys but the other half still prefer the company of their horse. And grow up to marry and have children while still spending as much time as possible with her horse and teach her kids to ride.

As I doubt the 20some horsey girls I know very well would all test as Aspies, I think this is a male bias so commonly seen. Most nonriding men assume there's something wrong with girls and women who don't spend all their time preening and chasing boys. That's their problem. Personally I find it a lot healthier than the girls who are constantly obsessed with what to wear and what boy likes them.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/11/2010 8:55:36 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Des, that brings up the 'invisible disability' aspect of Asperger's . . .

This is the third 'invisible' health issue I've dealt with in my life. Invisible in that I've gotten a lot of argument & challenge that I don't 'really' have this or that issue, or that they don't really constitute a disability. Cuz, well, they're a combo of either being relatively invisible to others &/or I do a good job of hiding the many ways the issue impacts on me & so it does indeed seem invisible to the outside observer.

My other two 'invisible disability' issues are chronic & rather massive depression & asthma. Yup, I've been challenged over & over again in my life around the asthma thing, weirdly enough. Tons of people who either think it's no big deal, should have no real impact on my life, or just don't think I really have asthma . . . . .

None of the people doubting have ever been health-care workers in their official capacities, lol, of course . . . . . . .

It was good I had that experience so when I've gotten the single-symptom-skepticism argument I know that it's kinda short-sighted. Not necessarily about you, personally, Des, just some context for you to understand how I received your post, above . . . .

So, note carefully, that like so many psych issues, it's not whether one has this or that particular symptom or whether this or that symptom could be argued as being 'no big deal' (which is how that post read to me, Des, fyi), it's the number of symptoms & how much they impact thing that's a big determiner.

I ring 90% of the aspie 'bells'. Same as when I take a screening for pre-menstrual-dysphoric-disorder. I know I have both because I have most of the symptoms, & I have all the physical ones & I have the symptoms fairly strongly. The aspie thing was not so clear to me when I just had the criteria for guys to work off of, but when I saw the 'how Aspergers presents differently in females' stuff, then I knew . . . . . .

I will be pursuing an 'official diagnosis' at some point . . . . . . .

I mostly posted this to be of service to those who might see themselves in the criteria & who might be helped by having this additional insight into themselves; it's certainly radically improved my life in the few months I've lived with this realization & has led to significant improvement in my coping skills, expectations, behaviors & etc based around my new understanding of what's going on with me . . . . . . .

One notable example being that I now know that depression is a common co-morbid to being aspie. Depression is a 'normal' response to never fitting in socially, always feeling awkward & uncomfortable socially, & being in a rather constant state of confusion in any given fluid social interaction, for example . . .. . .

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/11/2010 11:50:23 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Some additional thoughts I needed to get off my chest about this but-that-symptom-doesn't-matter syndrome. I'm gonna use an obviously ridiculous example (to the reasonably informed observer) to lay this out.

Here's a list of mild symptoms of diabetes (taken from: http://www.cureresearch.com/d/diabetes/symptoms.htm):
  • Skin rashes
  • Skin infections
  • Athlete's foot
  • Poor skin healing
  • Urinary tract infections
  • Candida
  • Thrush
  • Dry itchy skin
  • Flaky skin
  • Skin ulcers
  • Skin boils
  • Peripheral neuropathy
  • Paresthesias
  • Foot tingling
  • Foot numbness
  • Hand tingling
  • Hand numbness
  • Blurred vision
  • Sexual problems
  • Erectile failure
  • Unusual vaginal dryness
  • Premature menopause
  • Absent periods
  • Poor healing - any type of difficulty healing of minor infections, injury or after surgery.
  • Weight loss
  • Weight gain
  • Drowsiness
  • Malaise


Person A: I think I have diabetes. I've been having various symptoms, been really thirsty a lot lately, weird tingling in my limbs, my vision blurs occasionally, various things. I looked it up online & I think it might be diabetes.
Skeptical Person B: Oh, that doesn't mean anything. Everyone gets thirsty/tingly/blurry vision. No big deal. Why, if that's the only criteria, everybody would be a diabetic. &, well, since obviously not everybody's a diabetic, that symptom must not actually mean much of anything . . . ..

Yeah. No. I've exaggerated for effect, made explicit what is usually implicit. Amongst other things, rendering the straw-man argument visible in that whole "Well, if that's the only criteria..." bit. Obviously no medical personnel are gonna screen based on only one criteria. The only person making that argument is Skeptical Person B.

In reality, for most chronic health conditions, it is not any one (or even two or three) symptoms that arrives at a diagnosis, it's the sum total of a bunch of indicators. Someone who only ticks one or two or three of those diabetes symptoms, above, probably doesn't need to worry much. But someone who ticks off something on the order of 90% of those symptoms (25-ish out of the 28) probably ought to get to the doctor's right quick. See how that works?

I've dealt with this a lot over the years. Every layperson & their brother wants to be a back-seat clinician, & usually in the most skeptical way possible. &, yeah, usually they jump all salty over one or two or three symptoms off a list of dozens. I know humans are disproportionate critters, especially when it comes to intellectual tasks, so mostly I ever just shrug my shoulders & move on . . . . . . & then, occasionally, I do one of my monster (& very aspie-ish) data dumps all over some poor unfortunates on the subject, lol . . ....

(My experience with actual medical & psych practitioners is that, while they have the informed skepticism of their training to seek out horses over zebras & such like, they tend to be way more, well, believing that patients probably do a decent job most of the time of self-reporting symptoms . . .. . )

& I have found that this challenging-that-symptom thang is especially so with mental health issues. So many in the general population wanna leap to the it's-all-in-your-head-&-not-worthy-of-'real'-medical-attention attitudes that I long ago realized it had way more to do with that individual's fears about their own mental health issues & their own inabilities to deal with the stigma of mental illness than it does with the object of their scornful appraisal. (But that gets into my intrinsic-self-centeredness-of-humans theory, a whole other kettle of fish.)

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/15/2010 12:05:34 AM   
georgeinca


Posts: 30
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline 		I have a daughter who was diagnosed with high-functioning autism*, and I'm probably an undiagnosed (male) Aspie myself. And I certainly also have the depression that so many Aspies also have. I know it presents differently in females, thanks to my daughter, but I also see a lot of similarities.

Anyhow. You might have trouble getting a proper diagnosis. I know when I asked once, I was told "well, we don't have any programs or resources for adults with ASD, so there's not really any point assessing you now." (My parents once sent me somewhere for a load of tests 'cause they couldn't figure out what to do with me, but that was 1970, and they didn't know 1% of what they do now about autism etc.) There is an online Adult Asperger Assessment at Simon Baron-Cohen's Autism Research Centre site (Cambridge University). Click here to check it out.

Good luck with your self-discovery. I'm 46, and I don't think I've figured out more than 10% of myself so far....

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/15/2010 2:23:52 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Thanks for posting!

Yup, 'Adult & Autism-Spectrum-Disorder (ASD)' is almost as 'foreign' a territory as the 'Female & ASD'. Much of the diagnosis is done by interviewing caretakers (parents, mostly) . . . . .

My mother kept journal entries about me the first few years & I'm gonna looksee if they're among her papers that we have. In any case, I feel pretty comfortable working with counselors & psych people & such like . . . . .

On the other hand, part of how I came to this understanding about myself is that I know several adults who've either gotten diagnosed as adults or are in the process now. The clinicians will just have to adapt, lol . . . . . I took an online screen & got a fairly high score, higher than I expected. Prior to that I was kinda skeptical about me being more than maybe ever-so-slightly Asperger-ish for a coupla years there . . . . . . I really thought I'd score neuro-typical & I was trying to score neuro-typical . . .. .

This shades into discussions about why there seems to be an epidemic of autism or AS or any mental health diagnosis, for that matter . . . . . . Let me outline a progression of societal perception, evaluation, & treating any given adverse mental issue. & note carefully that I don't really believe in the proposition that most people are 'normal' (whatever the heck that is), & thus the grossly out-of-my-ass numbers offered below are 'conservative' relative to what I believe to be the actual case -- that we're all crazy, in a myriad of ways:
  • The most extreme cases are the first to be noticed. Usually they're also a very tiny slice of the human pie, something on the order of less than 10%, 5%, 1%, 0.1%, that sorta trend. They're so extreme & in society's collective face they scream, prance, & beg to be dealt with, so that's where first resources are allocated as the learning makes it possible. & mostly nobody wants to be grouped in with those extremists, so moderate & milder levels of symptomology are some combo of ignored, rationalized away, or whatever, bleeding off into the areas of us-versus-them & actor-observer bias;
  • After the foaming at the mouth & completely incapacitated are off the streets (or, more like, out of the basements & bedrooms) & otherwise taken care of, then the attention starts turning to the very real harms caused by moderate impairment by that condition, especially over the long run. The stuff that's more ignorable in the short run or doesn't seem such a big deal in the face of the really badly incapacitated. These are still a very small portion of the general portion, maybe at most twice the size of whatever share the extreme levels of those conditions;
  • After diagnosing & treating large portions of those with moderate levels of that condition, then attention turns to how even mild levels of those aggregated symptoms will impair functioning for people who might otherwise be some kinda Randian fantasy of 'normal human' being (or less Randite versions of same). & those people start to get noticed, diagnosed, & treated. & they're yet a bigger chunk of the population.

I hope it's obvious how this could look like an epidemic breaking out, especially as it typically seems to take at least decades if not a century-ish for this process to unfold. A temporal pattern driven as much by the unfolding of science as by the self-reporting-of-symptoms patterns over generations. & this pattern could unfold concurrent to an actual epidemic caused by other factors (industrial pollutants exerting multigenerational genetic mutative effects, for instance) . . . .

Specific to ASD, for instance, & drawing from my own family tree, when my father was born in 1938, well, Dr. Asperger didn't do his diagnostic thing until 1944, when my father was a 6-year-old dirt-poor Illinois boy. When my father was in his teens & having all kinds of interactions with the juvenile justice system, I suspect we were still pretty much systemically focused on diagnosing & treating the extremes of autism, those persons requiring caretaking all of their lives, incapable of most human contact. Outside of those bounds, for the more moderate & mild cases, it would have largely been a matter of class-based access to psych care, ie, the rich AS kids were probably getting diagnosed & treated first.

I know that when I was a youth the focus was still over-whelmingly on autism, & Asperger Syndrome wasn't something I heard about until I had school-age children myself. The first few 'officially' diagnosed people I've known had fairly severe AS, far closer to the autism end of the spectra than where I see myself & my family members. These were individuals who were diagnosed in the 1980s or '90s. Now I'm seeing a plethora of not-young people identifying as moderately-to-mildly AS, doin' the ah-ha, that explains so much, thang . ... . I've gotten a bunch of communications of that sort from my posting that 'Female & Aspie' stuff various places . . . .

The internet tends to be a wonderful place for those with AS, & there's quite a bit of out-&-organizing AS presence online. Forums, etc . .. . I expect change going forward.

(in reply to georgeinca)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/15/2010 7:14:26 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Kia, you've actually made my point. And since riding is not a common sport anyway there isn't nearly as much knowledge among the general public as to what the kids involved are like. Using a sport common in every school like basketball or softball would be better than picking out one rarely seen. My criticism was of the researcher assuming that this obsessional single track behavior, which is not normal in kids who play softball, therefore is not normal in girls who ride. And that's not true.

You can't definitively point to one symptom and say you definitely have this.

It's a lot easier for diabetics, if the fasting blood sugar is 300 you have it, no questions asked.

I'm just saying diagnosis is very difficult. Unfortunately all the diagnostic skills are aimed at children and you can't use them with adults because adults learn to compensate to some degree and don't present what are thought of as normal Aspie symptoms.


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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/15/2010 9:05:48 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		You know what, Des? Somewhere in there I totally lost what your point was . . . . .

At this point all I got out of your contribution is that you're scathingly skeptical, & not much more . . . . .

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Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/15/2010 10:36:57 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Anyways, for those wanting to discuss Asperger Syndrome (AS) & other autism-spectrum disorders (ASD), here's something useful about Sensory Processing Disorder, which is a common accompaniment to ASDs (more links in the article at the site, they didn't copy-&-paste over):

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/adult-SPD-checklist.html

Adolescent & Adult SPD Checklist

Please use this adult SPD checklist as a guide only. This is NOT meant to officially diagnose Sensory Processing Disorder. It should be used ONLY to indicate the "red flags" that may warrant attention; i.e., further observation, evaluation and/or treatment. It can also be used as part of the questionnaire and history gathering process during an evaluation by an OT qualified to diagnose and treat adults with Sensory Processing Disorder.

If you are concerned after going through the checklist that you or your teenager's life may be significantly impacted by sensory processing issues, please contact a local Occupational Therapist. For hints, tips and tricks on how to find one, read finding an OT . Again, disorder means that it is SIGNIFICANTLY interfering with ones ability to perform daily activities (work, rest, or "play"/leisure)

An open mind may help you see that what appeared to be a "mental health", "behavioral", or "compulsive" behavior or issue may actually be based on inefficient sensory processing. As with any "problem", it will not get better until you know the cause! Treat it for what it actually is... no more "band-aids".


ALL of you will check off several of the items on this checklist, as many of them indicate normal sensory preferences or difficulties. That does NOT mean you have SPD. Look at HOW MANY you have checked off, the AMOUNT OF HIGH NUMBERS you indicated, WHICH SENSORY SYSTEMS are targeted, and HOW MUCH they impact your everyday FUNCTIONING.

Also, keep in mind, many of these symptoms can be indications of other disorders and mental health issues. It is the clusters and intensity of symptoms that we are looking for here, as they apply to, and are based upon sensory stimuli.

Again, if you feel these sensory processing issues are significantly impacting your life (pay attention to FREQUENCY, TIMING, AND DURATION), I urge you to seek a knowledgeable professional for help. AND, if you are really bothered by sensory issues, you may also want to think back to childhood, or earlier years, and fill out the Sensory Processing Disorder Checklist For Kids .

Keep in mind, the more information you can give the evaluator, the more accurate your diagnosis and treatment will be. If concerned, keep journals and bring that, and these checklists to your Doctor, Psychologist, or Occupational Therapist who is familiar with SPD to decide if an evaluation and further treatment is indicated.


Check off the following "behaviors" and sensory preferences if they are a part of YOUR life, and rate how often each applies to you, on a scale of 0-5 ("0" being NEVER, "5" being ALWAYS).

ADOLESCENT / ADULT SENSORY PROCESSING DISORDER CHECKLIST

SENSORY MODULATION:

__ __ bothered by clothes; certain materials, tags, seams, pantyhose, ties, belts, turtlenecks, have to wear shorts, skirts, or pants exclusively, etc.

__ __ bothered by "light touch"; someone lightly touching/rubbing your hand, face, leg or back

__ __ excessively ticklish

__ __ distressed by others touching you; would rather be the "toucher" than the "touchee", difficulty "snuggling" with your partner

__ __ have to fidget and "fiddle" with things all the time; change in your pocket, your keys, a pen/pencil, paper clip, rubber band, ANYTHING within reach

__ __ often touching and twisting your own hair

__ __ very sensitive to pain, especially as compared to others

__ __ don't seem to notice pain; get shots/cuts/bruises and hardly feel a thing

__ __ dislike the feeling of showers or getting splashed

__ __ difficulty going to the beach; the sand blowing on your skin or getting on your body

__ __ avoid touching anything "messy"; if you do, you have to go wash your hands right away and/or only touch it with your fingertips

__ __ can not wear new or "stiff" clothes that have not been washed or soaked in fabric softener

__ __ hate to be barefoot or hate to wear shoes and/or socks

__ __ frequently get car sick, air sick, motion sick

__ __ a thrill seeker; loves fast and/or dangerous rides, leisure activities, and sports

__ __ difficulty riding on elevators, escalators, or moving sidewalks

__ __ avoid amusement park rides that spin or go upside down

__ __ seek out fast, spinning, and/or upside down carnival rides

__ __ will often rock or sway body back and forth while seated or standing still

__ __ frequently tips chair on back two legs

__ __ restless when sitting through a lecture, presentation, or movie

__ __ constantly chews on ends of pens and pencils

__ __ smokes cigarettes

__ __ difficulty eating foods with mixed textures, or one particular texture

__ __ prefer foods with very strong tastes and flavors

__ __ prefer very bland foods, dislike anything spicy

__ __ has a diagnosed eating disorder or has major eating "sensitivities"

__ __ constantly biting nails or fingers

__ __ bites lips or inside of cheeks

__ __ frequently shake your leg while sitting or falling asleep

__ __ love to sleep with multiple or heavy blankets on top of you

__ __ seek out crashing and "squishing" activities

__ __ cracks knuckles often

__ __ loves crunchy foods (popcorn, carrots, chips, nuts, pretzels, etc.)

__ __ frequently have gum or hard candy in your mouth

__ __ has an "endless" supply of air fresheners, scented candles, odor masking sprays, etc.

__ __ becomes nauseated or gags from certain cooking, cleaning, perfume, public restroom, or bodily odors

__ __ identifies objects by smell, have to smell everything, judge whether you like something or someone by smell

__ __ becomes overstimulated / overaroused when people come to the house or in crowded places

__ __ very high or very low energy level

__ __ avoids crowds and plans errands at times when there will be fewer people

__ __ overly exited/aroused in group settings

__ __ hides or disappears when guests come over

__ __ substance abuse

__ __ drinks excessive amounts of coffee or caffeinated beverages

__ __ notice and bothered by noises other people do not seem bothered by... clocks, refrigerators, fans, people talking, outdoor construction, etc.

__ __ sensitive to loud sounds or commotion

__ __ easily distracted by auditory or visual stimuli

__ __ can not attend certain public events or places due to excessive noise



SENSORY DISCRIMINATION:

__ __ can't identify objects by feel if your eyes are closed

__ __ difficulty finding things in your purse or pocket without looking

__ __ don't seem to notice if your hands or face are dirty

__ __ bothered by hands or face being dirty

__ __ loves to touch and be touched, has to touch everything

__ __ have a hard time feeling where a bug has bitten you or whether you are being bitten

__ __ difficulty heating food to the correct temperature, feeling if it is too hot or too cold

__ __ difficulty locating items in a cupboard, drawer, in your closet, or on a grocery shelf

__ __ difficulty with recognizing/interpreting/following traffic signs

__ __ difficulty judging distances about where your car is in relation to other cars, in parking spaces, or near a curb (fail miserably at parallel parking!!)

__ __ difficulty merging into oncoming traffic on road, rotary, or highway

__ __ get disoriented and/or lost easily in stores, buildings, hiking, etc.

__ __ can't sleep if room isn't completely dark

__ __ fearful of heights

__ __ difficulty concentrating on or watching a movie/tv show when there is background noise or distractions

__ __ difficulty remembering or understanding what is said to you

__ __ difficulty following directions if given two or three at one time

__ __ can not complete concentrated tasks if noises present

__ __ sensitive, or over reacts, to sirens, dogs barking, vaccuum cleaners, blenders, or other sudden/loud sounds

__ __ talks too loud or too soft

__ __ lethargic, hard to get going, appears "lazy" and unmotivated

__ __ become engrossed in one single activity for a long time and seems to tune out the rest of their environment

__ __ spend hours at a time on fantasy or video games and activities

__ __ great difficulty settling body down for sleep or waking up in the morning (did you even hear the alarm that has been going off for 15 minutes?)

__ __ has difficulty licking an ice cream cone neatly

__ __ difficulty with speech and annunciation

__ __ bumps into things frequently

__ __ often pushes too hard on objects, accidentally breaking them

__ __ difficulty judging how much pressure to apply when doing tasks or picking something up

__ __ difficulty identifying which key on your ring belongs to what

__ __ numbers and letters often reversed or backwards

__ __ difficulty telling time on an analogue clock

__ __ difficulty reading and understanding a map, bus schedule, directions

__ __ difficulty organizing and grouping things by categories, similarities, and/or differences

__ __ can't seem to find words in word search puzzles

__ __ unable to identify foods that have gone bad by smell

__ __ difficulty being able to smell dangerous smells, i.e., smoke, noxious/hazardous solvents

__ __ difficulty being able to smell when something is burning on the stove or in the oven

__ __ difficulty distinguishing different tastes and/or flavors of food and/or drink items



SENSORY-BASED MOTOR SKILLS:

__ __ difficulty learning to ride a bike or other "moving" equipment

__ __ clumsy, uncoordinated, and accident prone

__ __ difficulty walking on uneven surfaces

__ __ difficulty with fine motor tasks such as buttoning, zipping, tying, knitting, sewing, playing games with small parts, closing zip loc bags

__ __ confuses right and left sides

__ __ prefers sedentary tasks, avoiding sports or physical activities

__ __ difficulty with handwriting; hard to read, takes a long time to write

__ __ frequently bumps into people and things

__ __ easily fatigued with physical tasks

__ __ frequently misses when putting objects on a table

__ __ messy eater, difficulty with eating utensils, spills and drops food

__ __ knocks drinks or other things over when reaching for them

__ __ frequently drops items

__ __ has to talk self through tasks

__ __ hums or vocalizes while concentrating on a task

__ __ significant difficulty learning to tie a tie

__ __ difficulty with motor tasks requiring several steps

__ __ difficulty lining up numbers correctly for math problems and/or balancing a checkbook

__ __ difficulty learning new motor tasks...a new dance, sport or exercise activity, how to drive

__ __ lose balance frequently

__ __ significant difficulty learning to type the "proper" way



SOCIAL / EMOTIONAL:

__ __ dislikes changes in plans or routines, needs structure

__ __ may be described as "stubborn", "defiant", or "uncooperative"

__ __ cries easily, over things others usually don't, very "emotional" and "sensitive"

__ __ can't seem to finish anything

__ __ difficulty making decisions

__ __ rigid and controlling

__ __ prefers solitary activities, avoids groups

__ __ impatient and/or impulsive

__ __ difficulty with social cues and non verbal language

__ __ difficulty with authority figures

__ __ trouble relating to and socializing with peers and colleagues

__ __ a "sore loser"

__ __ strong feelings of anger or rage

__ __ easily frustrated

__ __ needs sameness and routines; needs to know what to expect

__ __ have panic or anxiety attacks

__ __ plagued by fears and/or phobias

__ __ OCD-type qualities; can't let foods touch each other on your plate, have to wear clothes a certain way, will only do ____, repetitively does ____, can not do _____ without doing _____, has to have ____ like ____

__ __ distractible and unorganized

__ __ hates surprises

__ __ difficulty seeking out and maintaining relationships

__ __ avoids eye contact



Internal Regulation:

__ __ difficulty falling asleep or getting on a sleep schedule

__ __ heart rate speeds up, and won't slow down when at rest, or won't speed up for tasks that require a higher heart rate

__ __ respiration too fast or slow for the appropriate state of arousal

__ __ over or under sensitivity to bowel and bladder sensations

__ __ over or under sensitivity to the sensation of hunger/appetite

__ __ irregular, inconsistent bowel, bladder and appetite sensations

__ __ difficulty with temperature regulation of body


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RE: Female & Aspie - 7/16/2010 9:31:00 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My point was that the researcher did a disservice by pointing to a sport where obsession is common. It's as if he declared anyone who jogged over two miles was by definition not normal and then announced that all marathoners were mentally ill. Which obviously is not true.

He did a disservice to Aspie's by picking horseback riders as his example because riders by definition spend a great deal more of their time and money on their sport than recreational skiers or surfers do. You buy skis, you wax them and you put them back in the closet. That's totally different than dealing with a companion animal, a team member, a best friend. And that's what a good horse/rider combination is. It isn't just a sport which is what the researcher states it ought to be. He thinks of the horses as things equivalent to a tennis racquet. And they aren't.

And by so doing, by using an example which is inherently false, he weakens the value of his research, making one wonder how good the rest of the research is.


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RE: Female & Aspie - 7/16/2010 11:41:06 AM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		from: http://magazine.goodvibes.com/2010/07/15/sex-aspergers-syndrome-an-interview-with-dr-amy-marsh/

Sex & Asperger’s Syndrome: An Interview with Dr. Amy Marsh
By Dr. Charlie Glickman • Jul 15th, 2010 • Category: Blog

A few days ago, I interviewed Dr. Amy Marsh as part of the sex educator profile series. I was so intrigued by her work with people with Asperger’s Syndrome that I decided to interview her about it.

Tell us a little bit about Asperger’s Syndrome. How does it affect people? How does it affect relationships?

Asperger’s Syndrome (AS) seems to be part of the Autism spectrum, and it manifests very individually. However, most people with Autism seem to have difficulty deciphering non-verbal cues and social interactions. They are often very intelligent and creative and are focused on special interests – think Kinsey with his gall wasps, and then Kinsey with his sex research – and they tend to have a single-focused way of going about their life. They may often take language very literally and sometimes have a hard time knowing when people are lying or speaking metaphorically. They may not seem “that emotional” at times and at others, have melt downs when sensory stimulation becomes too much. Also, anxiety can be a huge factor for a lot of these folks.These are generalizations – it’s really much more complex.

Asperger’s Syndrome can affect relationships in a lot of different ways, but in intimate relationships between someone with a lot of AS traits and someone who does not have many traits, it seems common for the non-AS person to feel somewhat emotionally starved and/or bewildered by how to get along. Part of this has to do with the non-AS person’s socialization and expectations of how relationships are “supposed to be.” Sensory integration issues can also make things more complicated, especially sexually.

How did you get interested in this branch of human sexuality?

I did some survey research into Asperger’s Syndrome and sexuality while I was at school at the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. As a sexologist, I can tell you this topic is endlessly fascinating and largely unexplored.

But I chose the topic originally because I was involved with a very dear lover who drove me nuts. I couldn’t figure the relationship out until the little light bulb went on over my head and I started researching Asperger’s Syndrome. He didn’t want a label, of course, and I didn’t really want to give him one. But when I started observing his behavior closely and acting “as if” he had AS traits, our relationship improved. A lot of this was because I adjusted my expectations and could appreciate him for who he was.

When I did the survey, I wanted to see if other people were having similar experiences, and dealing with similar issues. In many cases, the answer was yes. This has also taught me a lot about my own neuro-quirks, and where I might also be dancing on the edges of some of the traits. There’s a reason I have an affinity for intelligent, eccentric people.

What are some of the things that folks with Asperger’s and their partners need in order to create pleasurable relationships?

First of all, all partners need to think about who they are and how they operate – sensually, sexually, emotionally, intellectually, physically. If some of the Asperger’s Syndrome explanations or descriptions fit, fine. If not, don’t worry about it. The non-AS partner, if there is one, needs to read a ton of books on the topic even so, and again, be prepared to discard anything that doesn’t fit or feel right.

The non-AS person will probably be doing most of the apparent adjusting in the relationship, because the AS partner is usually working overtime just to deal with the anxiety and stresses of being around another person who has emotional and sexual expectations for the relationship. In other words, the non-AS person will feel he, she or ze is doing most of the work, but that’s because non-AS people don’t train themselves to look for what the AS person is doing and contributing. AS people are supposed to be socially “clueless” and rigid, but the truth is, the same is true for non-AS people, who have set certain standards for social and emotional interactions simply because they are in the majority.

Then, the partners should expect to use clear, concise language to work out boundaries, rules, and other things about the relationship. Sensory stuff should be discussed. Intimate time together should be planned so that the AS person doesn’t have to deal with the anxiety that comes from having to switch gears suddenly, as in “it’s a beautiful day, let’s go for a walk!”

Spontaneous suggestions generated by the non-AS person can often backfire. I had to really work to allow my old lover “transition time” when I saw him. He couldn’t just pull himself away from the computer and be present with me – it always took some time. Rituals are good too – and any semi-formal relationship structure will help – whether it’s tantra, BDSM, or a conventional monogamy with a lot of understood rules. Whatever works!

What are some of the challenges you’ve faced as an educator around these issues?

Getting the word out. Finding people who want to listen and learn. And not scaring people – mostly parents – who are active in the Autism community. Talking about sex – especially alternative sexualities – can be very scary for some people who are already very worried about their children, relatives, or spouses. But it’s really important to create and present good socio-sexual education, because people on the Autism spectrum are at high risk for abuse and bullying.

There is also the challenge of understanding that nothing I or anyone else can suggest is one size fits all. People really have to be willing to think about sex and relationships differently and to practice new skills, and to have some things just not work.

Tell us a bit about your web magazine. What inspired it? Why did you go with the web format?

I started The Intimate Aspie http://www.dramymarshsexologist.com/theintimateaspie/ after I wrote a three-part column for Carnal Nation on this topic which got over 25,000 hits. I realized that there was a bigger demand for this information than I’d thought, but I wasn’t ready to write a whole book or series of lessons.

Also, a lot of the people who have contacted me about this issue are not here in the SF Bay Area. I have wanted to create a distance learning program and I think this magazine can be a part of that. Each issue can stand alone as a mini-lesson or work together to give a good overview.

I liked the MagCloud site, too – it is an easy to use, print on demand resource that I could use for free. I didn’t have to come up with capital to publish. They take a cut when someone orders the magazine. That’s it! Plus, I designed, wrote and published the magazine up in 2 1/2 days – which is pretty great!

Future issues will cover sensory integration issues, BDSM, and lots of other themes. I’m really excited about it!

[Emphasis mine.]

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Female & Aspie - 7/25/2010 7:38:01 PM   
Fluke


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/29/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks for posting this, DemonKia :)

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Female & Aspie - 8/7/2010 10:25:00 AM   
KariCloud


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		DemonKia, a note of caution. There has been a small amount of new research into aspie females. The list of traits of aspie females you listed isn't accurate, though...

In terms of whether you are aspie or not, I suggest you skip the official diagnosis. As an adult, it is not only notoriously hard to get, but it also very often leads to an incorrect *mental* disorder, instead of aspergers (if that is what you have). BPD is a common one. So, not helpful. A waste of resources and money, essentially.

What would be helpful is to read books on aspies FOR aspies, that have suggestions on coping methods, strategies on living well, techniques that you can learn to compensate. NOTHING will make an aspie not an aspie, it is afterall neurological wiring differences in the brain! But you are very able to learn. Whether you are aspie or not, the strategies for aspies are not going to hurt you.

Another thing to look in to is forums for aspies. Delphi forums has a great one run by a guy and his wife, who's definitely aspie but definitely of the "work hard, get a good life" attitude. A lot of the problem many aspies have is the arrogance of insisting the world conform to them. Wrong attitude! http://forums.delphiforums.com/asandpartners Gerry is the guy's name. I've talked a great deal with him personally, he has been instrumental in a lot of aspie people's lives, and their partners too.

Finally, whether you are aspie or not, at this age, doesn't really matter. What matters is your life, your happiness, low levels of stress. That comes from learning strategies to manage your life. Aspie or otherwise.

Children benefit from being diagnosed because early in life there is much that can be done to help the brain forge new connections, and because children cannot do what adults can for themselves.This is more applicable to classic autism, not aspergers, though. As an adult, you have everything needed at your fingertips to help yourself. A good therapist, one geared for aspies or not, can be very helpful. I wouldn't even mention aspergers to the therapist, just present yourself and what improvements you want to make in your life.


Kari
-dx autistic as a child, which is "not good enough" to get help at university, so I've been through the process of trying to get a new formal diagnosis.. It sucks.

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RE: Female & Aspie - 8/7/2010 10:31:46 AM   
KariCloud


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		Des is right, too. The thing with obsessive interest in autism and aspergers is only one aspect. As my doctor puts it, EVEYRONE has a bit of aspergers inside them. It only gets diagnosed, in an adult, when there is an extremely high percentage of all the traits (not the ones listed in this thread) of aspergers AND it is causing significant problems in the adult's life. We're talking: unable to hold a job, zero friends, no or only stormy intimate relationships, inability to maintain one's health/body/finances/life. Severe to that degree. Then, getting a diagnosis is the first step in getting the person into a program to help them, usually some kind of group home with live-in therapists and a life coach, a job coach, and federal assistance.

Lacking that severity, aspergers likely won't get diagnosed in an adult and for good reason. It's the new "popular disease" like ADD/ADHD was, but like ADD it has a great many aspects that are seen in perfectly ordinary NT people. (NT is neurotypical, those without an autism spectrum disorder).

Eventually, there will be brain scans to accurately diagnose autism and aspergers, they've been working on that for a number of years now.

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RE: Female & Aspie - 8/7/2010 11:04:02 AM   
HisEvelyn


Posts: 252
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting all this information. It's been very enlightening for me, and I'm going to do some more research on this.

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RE: Female & Aspie - 8/7/2010 5:36:30 PM   
siamsa24


Posts: 2426
Joined: 2/2/2004
Status: offline 		As a now-adult Aspie I am both happy and sad that this has gotten the amount of attention it has been getting.  I am happy because more people are more understanding, I am sad because more people now think that I only have it because it's "trendy", even though I have been this way for as long as I can remember. 
I was not diagnosed for a long, long time, I spent most of my years being bounced between "gifted" and "special needs" and eventually my parents yanked me out of school.  When I reached high school they put me back in, hoping I had "grown out of it" (I had flourished in home schooling) and I went to a total of 3 high schools over those four years, eventually graduating at the top of my class, but totally miserable. 
When I reached college age I put off going to school for as long as possible, but when I did go I struggled, not with my classes, but with all the people, 2000 people seemed like millions to me.  I found, and attached myself to, another Aspie (she was diagnosed at the time, I was not, but my diagnosis followed shortly after meeting her, I was sooooo happy to have a name for what I was) and we are best friends to this day.  It's kind of funny, people can never figure out our relationship, we rarely, if ever, talk, but we love to just sit in the same room with each other and when we do talk it's usually about bizarre medical mysteries, with a human genome map, an anatomy and physiology textbook and several diagnosis manuals spread all around us

I don't know really where I was trying to go with all this, maybe just to throw out there that we do exist and some of us got the "label" before it got popular

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RE: Female & Aspie - 8/7/2010 10:02:29 PM   
KariCloud


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		Siamsa, I get what you're saying, I think. Thanks for speaking up.

I was told I was autistic when I was about 8 or so, which puts it around 1990. I had and still have speech problems, so I never even got the "upgrade" to aspergers. So yea, before the craze, not that I really think that by itself makes it more valid. I don't doubt the diagnosis for me because it's been a conclusion reached by many professionals with no outside influence. I didn't have to tell the professionals, they figured it out on their own. But I have seen a lot of people who think that being social outcasts, deviants, or weird is enough to make them aspie when most of them don't seem to have the slightest idea what they are talking about. I won't deny they may have social problems and would benefit from socialization lessons, but it takes a HECK of a lot more than that to have aspergers. That's only the tiniest part of it. For me, the rest of what makes me autistic is far more difficult to live with- the food fussiness, irregular daily schedules, changes in the living environment, clothes that wear out, TAGS, smells and lights and noises, paperwork and forms so convoluted and illogically written as to make no sense, irrational emotions, hyper-focus at the wrong times and on the wrong subjects.. The list of other problems directly linked to being autistic is huge and even I don't know all of it about me... The social problems are just a tiny part of that. And honestly, too much attention is paid to special interests (what NTs call obsessions).


I also did the bouncing between the gifted and retarded label for a long time, as a child. In my case, they tried a day-program for gifted children I think around 4th grade. I showed such ability and interest in the science and math parts of the gifted school that they left me there until junior high. Smaller classes, problem-based lessons, interesting subjects, and no forced social interaction was a magical combination for me. One would have thought that the adults would see the pattern. But no, they still tried to force me to interact with other children over and over and wondered why I withdrew and gave up or had behavioral problems. Idiots. The only times I had the infamous autistic tantrums on a regular basis was when other people were forcing me to look at them, to do something, to interact... I was a terrific screamer, my tantrums could be heard for miles, especially as I grew older and developed bigger lungs! Too bad no one noticed that I stayed quiet and calm and behaved angelically when I was left alone!

< Message edited by KariCloud -- 8/7/2010 10:04:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Female & Aspie - 8/10/2010 6:20:14 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I ring 90% of the aspie 'bells'.


I would be wary of getting married to a diagnosis before you check that it's the right bells that are ringing. As an adult, there is a fairly simple test which gives you something to go on. Go to a meeting of highly functioning aspies. If you feel out of place, it is fairly likely that you are normal with a twist of lemon instead. If you feel like you've finally met other humans, it is fairly likely that you are an aspie. A response in between is a solid contraindication against self-diagnosis.

Also, please bear in mind that while the symptoms may be less conspicuous in girls (at an epidemological level, at least), there is also a gender component to this anomaly. In my experience, it's not a very subtle condition, even in girls, when you know what to look for. Some upbringings can result in some of the same mental and personality trait anomalies that are seen in aspies, for that matter. Hence, my recommendation to seek out people who do know what to look for (it isn't nearly as easy to explain as to recognize; see "tacit knowledge").

Some of the traits normal people commonly look for are also very biased.

For instance, the notion of obsession with nonfunctional rituals is absurd, given how almost no interactions with normal people will work unless the collection of nonfunctional rituals they have inherited are carefully tended to. Experiments with normal children show that they will, unlike animals, copy the useless aspects of what their parents do just as much as the useful aspects (e.g. show them how to open a puzzle box, but throw in a pointless component like rubbing the box in some way, and children of a certain age will duplicate that component when opening the box, every time).

Most "diagnostic" criterion detect the presence of cultural, cognitive and linguistic idiosyncracies, and the consequences of being idiosyncratic, not the condition itself. Similarly, most of the comorbid conditions are logical consequences of the experience of growing up in an intolerant society while having such idiosyncratic traits.

Incidentally, depression is mostly a secondary condition, not comorbid.

And it's related to payback from effort, not strictly situational.

Health,
al-Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Female & Aspie - 8/10/2010 8:29:49 PM   
KariCloud


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/14/2010
Status: offline 		Seconding everything Aswad said. I really STRONGLY urge against self-diagnosis. It won't do any good, and it can do a whole lot of harm. It is far too easy to take something like aspergers, that has a lot of "normal" aspects to it, and start fitting oneself in to the diagnosis. And yes, many of the commonly-seen/accepted attributes of aspergers and autism are not useful indicators at all.

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Female & Aspie - 8/12/2010 3:50:09 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks so much to Kia, Aswad and the others who have comments on this thread, very enlightening.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to KariCloud)
Profile   Post #: 20
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