RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf?

RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:14:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AsmodaisSin I don't understand. I hear all the time, "It's my body! You can't tell me what to do with it!" when it comes to abortion, but the moment someone wants to educate their children on sex-ed without the school's involvement, it's neglect. It's my kid. Or potential kid. O_o You're not understanding the process. A woman seeking an abortion, for whatever reason, is assumed to be educated about her own body. To which she has a right to. A child, living and breathing, walking around, smaller than the average adult, less educated, more vulnerable does NOT have the ability to be able to consent to sex of any kind. Without education, that child will not know what sex is and ignorance does not empower a child to protection. Think of it this way...how many young children who have been molested had the knowledge to be able to look at the predator and say "I know what you're trying to do is wrong and I'm going to tell"....? How many children do you think would be saved unimaginable pain and humiliation if they had that little bit of knowledge...that little bit of power? boi

tazzygirl -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:15:24 PM)
Now we come to the difference. If ever you were a parent. Coming from someone who was molested, without the ability to express what happened, and not having parents who educated me in the dos and donts, and growing up in a school system that treated these discussions like a taboo subject.... i started my son's education at age 5, the moment he asked about what condoms were, and it was an ongoing process. Books, talks, educational programs. By the time he was 10, he knew far more than my own brothers knew, and i am proud of that fact. The first girl he was going to have sex with thought since she was a virgin, she couldnt get pregnant and didnt want him to wear a condom, he quickly informed her of her misconception. he had far better sense than to get pulled in. To me, that was parenting...; protecting my child from all forseeable harm, in all areas i could possibly forsee myself. I didnt show him porn, i showed him the medical aspects. he didnt learn from friends, he learned from adults who cared deeply.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:16:52 PM)
He just wants to be sure to fuck up those who survive late term abortions.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:18:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mikeyOfGeorgia stupidity goes both ways...or so i hear Not in this case.....what the fuck,not in most of the spitting matches you get involved in,hell from where I sit it seems you have truckloads of stupidity,why you feel the need to come here and share it with us is beyond me,but who am I to figure out the motivation of the incredibly stupid. Perhaps Sanity can explain it to us...

AsmodaisSin -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen quote: ORIGINAL: AsmodaisSin I don't understand. I hear all the time, "It's my body! You can't tell me what to do with it!" when it comes to abortion, but the moment someone wants to educate their children on sex-ed without the school's involvement, it's neglect. It's my kid. Or potential kid. O_o You're not understanding the process. A woman seeking an abortion, for whatever reason, is assumed to be educated about her own body. To which she has a right to. A child, living and breathing, walking around, smaller than the average adult, less educated, more vulnerable does NOT have the ability to be able to consent to sex of any kind. Without education, that child will not know what sex is and ignorance does not empower a child to protection. Think of it this way...how many young children who have been molested had the knowledge to be able to look at the predator and say "I know what you're trying to do is wrong and I'm going to tell"....? How many children do you think would be saved unimaginable pain and humiliation if they had that little bit of knowledge...that little bit of power? boi There are some women out there who get abortions like they get their nails done. Shouldn't the government step in and tell them that they have to get their tubes tied or they need to stop having sexual intercourse? NO! It's her body, she has a right to do with it as she wishes. I don't think anyone seems to understand where I am coming from. I don't necessarily disagree with the program. I think that sexual education in the cases of parents who would rather the school educate their children, or just don't care, then that's fine. I don't see a problem with the program itself. I DO believe that the parents, as the caretakers of their children, should have an absolute option to OPT OUT of that program. If I have children, I want to at least have the OPTION to OPT OUT, just as women want the OPTION to do with their bodies as they wish. My children. My flesh and blood. My offspring. My pups. My life. Allow me to choose for my child what I think is right. Who knows? I may chicken out and let the school do it anyways, but to take that control from me as a potential parent is a very, very bad thing.

LaTigresse -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:22:34 PM)
So then you support the right of parents to opt out of sending kids to school whether or not they can prove that they are getting a comparable education at home via testing?

AsmodaisSin -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:24:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Now we come to the difference. If ever you were a parent. Coming from someone who was molested, without the ability to express what happened, and not having parents who educated me in the dos and donts, and growing up in a school system that treated these discussions like a taboo subject.... i started my son's education at age 5, the moment he asked about what condoms were, and it was an ongoing process. Books, talks, educational programs. By the time he was 10, he knew far more than my own brothers knew, and i am proud of that fact. The first girl he was going to have sex with thought since she was a virgin, she couldnt get pregnant and didnt want him to wear a condom, he quickly informed her of her misconception. he had far better sense than to get pulled in. To me, that was parenting...; protecting my child from all forseeable harm, in all areas i could possibly forsee myself. I didnt show him porn, i showed him the medical aspects. he didnt learn from friends, he learned from adults who cared deeply. I can't relate to your own personal experience, and I will refrain from trying. I grew up with very protective, but honest, loving, adoring parents. I also grew up with the examples my sister gave me NOT to follow. ^_^ Good for you. That's exactly what I would expect to do with my own children if ever I have one/two. O_o

BoiJen -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:24:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AsmodaisSin I don't think anyone seems to understand where I am coming from. I don't necessarily disagree with the program. I think that sexual education in the cases of parents who would rather the school educate their children, or just don't care, then that's fine. I don't see a problem with the program itself. I DO believe that the parents, as the caretakers of their children, should have an absolute option to OPT OUT of that program. If I have children, I want to at least have the OPTION to OPT OUT, just as women want the OPTION to do with their bodies as they wish. My children. My flesh and blood. My offspring. My pups. My life. Allow me to choose for my child what I think is right. Who knows? I may chicken out and let the school do it anyways, but to take that control from me as a potential parent is a very, very bad thing. And what you don't seem to understand is that there is a significant group of individuals who would opt out and then not educate their children. You wanna opt out of sex ed? Then make sure, on the day there's gonna be a sex ed class, that your kid is as well or better prepared to answer questions about their parts and the sexual process. Opting out because talking about sex to kids in an educational manner squicks you (general), as a potential parent, is a bullshit reason to not educate your children.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:27:26 PM)
Do try to be sensible.....parents can opt out.....they can choose to send their children to a parochial school...they can choose to home school....they can choose to move to another school district,which they feel better represents their values and such. What they can't do is cherry pick those parts of the approved curriculum for any given school distric as being unsuitable and opt out of a particular part of a curriculum.That way lies chaos within the school. Is their any mystery left here for you? I have tried to break it down rather simply for you.

AsmodaisSin -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:29:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Do try to be sensible.....parents can opt out.....they can choose to send their children to a parochial school...they can choose to home school....they can choose to move to another school district,which they feel better represents their values and such. What they can't do is cherry pick those parts of the approved curriculum for any given school distric as being unsuitable and opt out of a particular part of a curriculum.That way lies chaos within the school. Is their any mystery left here for you? I have tried to break it dowm rather simply for you. THERE isn't any mystery left at all for me. I understand completely that trying to argue this is completely and totally useless. I've offered a well-reasoned argument, and every time I turn around someone throws some bogus or extreme response. I'm done pretty much. The only reasonable person on this thread was tazzy. -Shrugs.-

tazzygirl -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:31:37 PM)
If parents want to opt out, thats fine. And if these said parents have a child that is sexually abused, and something arises in the course of the case (provided there is one) that proves an educational sex education class could have helped prevent said abuse, then the parents should be willing to take on the responsibility of their own inability to teach their children and end up with the same sentence as the perpetrator, yes?

LaTigresse -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:33:08 PM)
Tazzy, quit being so damned reasonable!

BoiJen -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:34:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl If parents want to opt out, thats fine. And if these said parents have a child that is sexually abused, and something arises in the course of the case (provided there is one) that proves an educational sex education class could have helped prevent said abuse, then the parents should be willing to take on the responsibility of their own inability to teach their children and end up with the same sentence as the perpetrator, yes? Didn't I suggest something along those lines a page or two back as well? Damned the reasonable people grouping up together to say "yes! educate your children!"

tazzygirl -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:35:09 PM)
well, damn, LT. Im trying on a new me!

calamitysandra -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:37:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse IF the material was to be taught in an age appropriate (not morally but brain maturity and ability to understand) manner..........I certainly would have no problem with it. My kids were asking questions, and getting those questions answered correctly, by that age. This. I believe this is one of those topics that show the huge cultural gaps between the USA and Europe. This would not even elect a moment of attention around here. Sex ed in an age appropriate form is a matter of course at all educational levels in Germany. Meaning kindergarteners with no educational supplementation at home would be taught about their bodies, sexual parts included, basic mechanics of sex, conception, pregnancy, and delivery, right to privacy and boundaries, how to react if somebody touches them, or if somebody exposes themselves, or does anything else that makes them uncomfortable. Oh, and there is no opting out, it is part of the mandatory education. My kids go to a catholic school (a Montessori school, and the best one around), and they have to, and do teach sex ed in the same way that every other school does. In our family we have always answered questions honestly and fully. If they are old enough to ask, they are old enough to know. Currently my sons are nearly 6, 7, and 10, and I can honestly say that even the younger ones have known about the complete contents of the list posted by Tazzy for quite some time now. The oldest is slowly sliding into puberty, and we are consciously fostering an open, honest relationship with him. We want him to be able to know that we will answer his questions, and that there is absolutely no reason to be ashamed to ask. He knows about sex in many forms in detail, contraception and safer sex, the mechanics of condom use, male and female masturbation, the dangers of strangulation play, or drug use to enhance orgasm, orgasm obviously, and a good deal of things I am forgetting right now. Our last talk concerned breastfucking (what is the correct/sanitized english term for that act anyway?). Under much giggling he told something a buddy told on the playground. We cleared up some misconceptions, and explained that yes, this is a form of sex that people practise. I would go so far as to say that not teaching kindergarteners at least the basics of body parts, sex, unwanted touches, and privacy violations is a form of child endangerment. In a bid to keep kids innocent (why the hell takes knowledge about their body innocence away?), they are made/kept vulnerable. Knowledge is power.

AsmodaisSin -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:39:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl If parents want to opt out, thats fine. And if these said parents have a child that is sexually abused, and something arises in the course of the case (provided there is one) that proves an educational sex education class could have helped prevent said abuse, then the parents should be willing to take on the responsibility of their own inability to teach their children and end up with the same sentence as the perpetrator, yes? Didn't I suggest something along those lines a page or two back as well? Damned the reasonable people grouping up together to say "yes! educate your children!" If you did, why the heck have you been arguing with me for the last few posts?!

Slavehandsome -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:41:02 PM)
This is just another way to get to children before the parents feel its time to talk about 'the birds and the bees'. It wasn't Obama's idea, he's just following along with it. See also- Every Child Left Behind.

LaTigresse -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:41:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra This. I believe this is one of those topics that show the huge cultural gaps between the USA and Europe. This would not even elect a moment of attention around here. Sex ed in an age appropriate form is a matter of course at all educational levels in Germany. Meaning kindergarteners with no educational supplementation at home would be taught about their bodies, sexual parts included, basic mechanics of sex, conception, pregnancy, and delivery, right to privacy and boundaries, how to react if somebody touches them, or if somebody exposes themselves, or does anything else that makes them uncomfortable. Oh, and there is no opting out, it is part of the mandatory education. My kids go to a catholic school (a Montessori school, and the best one around), and they have to, and do teach sex ed in the same way that every other school does. I agree hugely! It definitely causes our puritanical roots to show, in a very unflattering light.

slvemike4u -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 2:45:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AsmodaisSin quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Do try to be sensible.....parents can opt out.....they can choose to send their children to a parochial school...they can choose to home school....they can choose to move to another school district,which they feel better represents their values and such. What they can't do is cherry pick those parts of the approved curriculum for any given school distric as being unsuitable and opt out of a particular part of a curriculum.That way lies chaos within the school. Is their any mystery left here for you? I have tried to break it dowm rather simply for you. THERE isn't any mystery left at all for me. I understand completely that trying to argue this is completely and totally useless. I've offered a well-reasoned argument, and every time I turn around someone throws some bogus or extreme response. I'm done pretty much. The only reasonable person on this thread was tazzy. -Shrugs.- No you haven't....all you have parroted is the silly refrain that "they are my children"(in your case a future tense sort of thing...which means there is still hope that you will become more reasonable as you grow up....for your future childrens sake I am crossing my fingers).Educating our children is a "community" thing here,save those that choose to home school....how it works is that the community,with the assistance of education professionals meet and agree on a curriculum and approved textbooks and such.That is than the approved curriculum for that school district....if your child attends school in that district that is what he will be taught.....one can not have children on different educational paths within the same class...being taught seperate curriculums because different parents selected different approved subjects as if they were ordering from a chinese take out menu( one from columm a and one from columm be sort of thing) This method assures that children get a basic education (or at least its supposed to) and theoretically are prepared to move onto the next educational step....it also works hand in hand with standardised testing ...to check that the curriculum ,and the teachers presenting that curriculum, are effective in teaching the children the approved material.

pahunkboy -> RE: Obama supports sex ed for kindergartners........wtf? (7/14/2010 3:00:01 PM)
-- and yet- the Brady Bunch house has only 1 bathroom- which contains NO toilet? Is there no end to the madness!

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