quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Ive never met a strong atheist who has "utter certainty" about anything. We acknowledge that you cannot prove the non-existence of something claimed to be so powerful that it could hide in the shadows or something that exists outside of nature. We also acknowledge that any scientific theory is subject to change as we learn more about nature. We are quite willing to admit there is a god...just come up with some evidence.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Ive never met a strong atheist who has "utter certainty" about anything. We acknowledge that you cannot prove the non-existence of something claimed to be so powerful that it could hide in the shadows or something that exists outside of nature. We also acknowledge that any scientific theory is subject to change as we learn more about nature. We are quite willing to admit there is a god...just come up with some evidence.

So, truly in your heart of hearts: are you an atheist or an agnostic?

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

We are quite willing to admit there is a god...just come up with some evidence.

Evidence is often in the eye of the beholder. What, precisely, would you be willing to accept as "evidence"?

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A "miracle" in conditions where there is no other explanation...

Miracles, too, are often in the eye of the beholder. How, precisely, would you define an authentic "miracle"?

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Those who rip apart the belief in a god.....and mock it as though they are operating from a position of higher knowledge and superior ideas.....are guilty of the greatest delusion of them all....that being the belief that they have the answers.

Believe it or not, I try to stay out of the religious threads, although I do occasionally join in.

NG, this is one of the most best sentences on the subject that I've seen posted on the boards.  Can I steal it?  I think it's time for a new sig line!

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Those who rip apart the belief in a god.....and mock it as though they are operating from a position of higher knowledge and superior ideas.....are guilty of the greatest delusion of them all....that being the belief that they have the answers.

Believe it or not, I try to stay out of the religious threads, although I do occasionally join in.

NG, this is one of the most best sentences on the subject that I've seen posted on the boards.  Can I steal it?  I think it's time for a new sig line!

Firm

I agree with Firm, NG what a brilliant statement, I want to "borrow" it also!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I dont believe in them...you name some and I'll tell you if it qualifies.

You're the one who said you would consider a miracle to be evidence for the existence of God. I don't care whether or not you think such a thing is possible, I just want to know what you're talking about. If you don't know either, I'm sorry to have embarrassed you.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Ive never met a strong atheist who has "utter certainty" about anything. We acknowledge that you cannot prove the non-existence of something claimed to be so powerful that it could hide in the shadows or something that exists outside of nature. We also acknowledge that any scientific theory is subject to change as we learn more about nature. We are quite willing to admit there is a god...just come up with some evidence.

So, truly in your heart of hearts: are you an atheist or an agnostic?

The "We" should give you a clue. ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Ive never met a strong atheist who has "utter certainty" about anything. We acknowledge that you cannot prove the non-existence of something claimed to be so powerful that it could hide in the shadows or something that exists outside of nature. We also acknowledge that any scientific theory is subject to change as we learn more about nature. We are quite willing to admit there is a god...just come up with some evidence.

So, truly in your heart of hearts: are you an atheist or an agnostic?

The "We" should give you a clue. ;)

I'm dense.  It doesn't.

Are you speaking for all atheists?  Or just all "strong" atheists?  Or just yourself?

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I can't come up with anything that a theist would be certain to agree is a miracle.

I didn't ask you what a theist would consider a miracle, I just asked what you would consider one. What's so important about whether or not anybody else agrees with you? I am going to guess (because I don't think you're an idiot) that there is something you would consider a miracle if it happened, but you don't believe it ever will or can, and maybe it's something personal and none of anybody's business. In any case, consider the question withdrawn. Suffice it to say that even given something we could only describe as a miracle, there is no possible way to rigorously prove that the causative agent was God.

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Those who rip apart the belief in a god.....and mock it as though they are operating from a position of higher knowledge and superior ideas.....are guilty of the greatest delusion of them all....that being the belief that they have the answers.

Believe it or not, I try to stay out of the religious threads, although I do occasionally join in.

NG, this is one of the most best sentences on the subject that I've seen posted on the boards.  Can I steal it?  I think it's time for a new sig line!

Oh, I wanted to stay off this thread but really, Firm, NG ignores the fact that heretics are no longer burned at the stake. It is kinda liberating.

We don't burn heretics anymore, true.

We just flog them personally and politically until they shut up.

Firm

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I don't claim to have the answers except for some cases where we do such as: the earth isn't flat, the earth wasn't created in seven days in the middle of the bronze age and no Jesus did not ride dinosaurs. What I do claim is that you don't have the answers either and that there's a method of searching for the answers that's better than yours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I don't claim to have the answers except for some cases where we do such as: the earth isn't flat, the earth wasn't created in seven days in the middle of the bronze age and no Jesus did not ride dinosaurs. What I do claim is that you don't have the answers either and that there's a method of searching for the answers that's better than yours.

You have a way of searching for answers that is better for YOU! My method for searching for answers is amazing but you would not be open to it, I can already tell. It doesnt make your way better though bro.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The questions that come to mind are 1. where did all this stuff come from? (how did the primordial atom become?) 2. how were the gravitational forces overcome and the expansive forces let loose? 3. are/were there other primoridal atoms to explode into other Universes. 4. What is the space surrounding the primordial atom and into which it is expanding? 5. finally the epistemological question: how do we know this shit?

Just in passing (I'm not trying to start a hijack), the short answer may be that the Big Bang theory is wrong.

Anomalous Redshift Data and the Myth of Cosmological Distance

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream
You have a way of searching for answers that is better for YOU! My method for searching for answers is amazing but you would not be open to it, I can already tell. It doesnt make your way better though bro.