Finally a serious question (Full Version)

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MissFem -> Finally a serious question (9/22/2004 2:35:56 AM)

I was not so sure where to put this so here gose...........

not long ago I had a friend that asked me about religions...well me being me told her I have a pet rock as a higher power...ok that was not the time to say it...but I did

anyway the question revolved around this....There are religious people in BDSM ...now if a fem sub calls her Master names such as "Master...and Lord {insert a name} how can they call their higher power such names? Isnt God called those names? so a human can not be right?

ok so I didnt know how to answer this....can I get some help here? because to me she was right....




LadyShoshin -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/22/2004 4:59:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissFem

I was not so sure where to put this so here gose...........

not long ago I had a friend that asked me about religions...well me being me told her I have a pet rock as a higher power...ok that was not the time to say it...but I did

anyway the question revolved around this....There are religious people in BDSM ...now if a fem sub calls her Master names such as "Master...and Lord {insert a name} how can they call their higher power such names? Isnt God called those names? so a human can not be right?

ok so I didnt know how to answer this....can I get some help here? because to me she was right....

The British Parliament has many Lords, the titles are either inherited or bestowed by royalty, it certainly doesn't mean that these men are considered deities. Nor during the time of real slavery did the title Master imply that the person was considered a god.

Feudalism comes from the Late Latin word feudum that was borrowed from a Germanic root *fehu, a commonly used term in the Middle Ages which means fief, or land held under certain obligations by feodati. Even though the word origin is from the Middle Ages, the concept of feudalism was not invented untill the 17th Century in the modern era. Because feudalism is a modern concept, to understand what Feudalism is, it is helpful to understand the history of the term since its invention, the key definitions of feudalism used by diffrent historians, and recent modern interpretations and revolts.
A lord (French: seigneur) is an aristocrat Aristocracy is a form of government in which rulership is in the hands of an "upper class" known as aristocrats. (The Greek origins of the word aristocracy imply the meaning of "rule by the best".) This inevitably means those with the power to hold wealth, and to define who shall remain in poverty and slavery. Etiquette Civics under this form is more or less completely
Who claims dominion over a portion of land and the produce and labour of the serfs A serf is a laborer who is bound to the land. Serfs differ from slaves in that serfs cannot be sold apart from the land which they work. Typically, when serfdom prevailed, the land itself could not be sold because it was associated with political powers (just as the Queen of England cannot sell England). Instead, the land was transfered via war, marriage, and the like. They are normally hereditary and owed allegiance similar to that owed to the monarch. Generally, the word lord is applied to superiors of many kinds, e.g. landlord, and in many countries in Europe is used as a general title of address equivalent to the English "Mr": e.g. Signore, Herr. Definition: (source http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Lord)
Master[n] an original creation (i.e., an audio recording) from which copies can be made
[n] key that secures entrance everywhere
[n] presiding officer of a school
[n] an artist of consummate skill; "a master of the violin"; "one of the old masters"
[n] an authority qualified to teach apprentices
[n] directs the work of other
[n] someone who holds a master's degree from academic institution
[n] an officer who is licensed to command a merchant ship
[n] a person who has general authority over others
[n] a combatant who is able to defeat rivals
[v] have a firm understanding or knowledge of; be on top of; "Do you control these data?"
[v] be or become completely proficient or skilled in; "She mastered Japanese in less than two years"
[v] get on top of; deal with successfully; "He overcame his shyness"
[v] have dominance or the power to defeat over; "Her pain completely mastered her"; "The methods can master the problems" (source http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/master)

So, as you can see, there are many definitions of Lord & Master, if it makes someone uncomfortable to use those words in describing a human being then they need to work out an alternative. Calling your Dom/me Puff the Magic Dragon is acceptable if they agree to it & it is understood it is a title of respect & honor.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/22/2004 5:09:01 AM)

MissFem,

First of all, you might find some of the answers you are looking for in a thread entitled religion which has almost 150 entries to it.

The topic, like most others, have been discussed here and we enjoy bringing them back up again. To say that "finally a serious question"... come on! Plenty of serious questions have been asked in these forums. I hope you were jesting in your title!

However, the question you pose in an interesting one. One that can make us think, etc. My views on it are simple: I am atheist. I don't believe in a higher power. I don't even believe that I'm a higher power. I'm a dominant woman but those who submit to me have an equal power to mine, and in many, it is manifested as strength from within to obey my every command and serve.

I guess I'm pretty constant in that I don't really believe in the whole superior/inferior crap. I always found someone who considered themselves superior where covering up a whole lot of insecurity.

- LA




LadyShoshin -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/22/2004 5:46:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I guess I'm pretty constant in that I don't really believe in the whole superior/inferior crap. I always found someone who considered themselves superior where covering up a whole lot of insecurity.

- LA

Our spirituality (or lack of it) may not be similar, but our views on superior/inferior are. Well said!




subbiejenn -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/22/2004 8:45:22 AM)

Hi MissFem

For me i do believe in God and i am a Christian. My views on a lot of things in the lifestyle have changed so much in the past 2 years as i have learned more and become more open to things. i don't look down on or think badly of anyone on their views or kinks.

i would not call my Dom "Lord" i do not feel comfortable with it at all because God is my Lord. Now i would use Master but for me they have different meanings. i haven't been in the lifestyle long and have never had a Master. i also believe to be my Master it would have to be a serious long term relationship (collared etc...) and i have yet to have that. Until recently all the Doms i have met have been fun, nice etc... But not the "one" i wanted for my Master. Now there is one who i hope will be my Master someday and i think W/we are getting closer to that everyday and now that i think of it i will have to bring this up with Him also. i don't think He would have a problem with me not wanting to call Him Lord, He is very fair when it comes to things i believe in.

Some do call God "Lord" and "Master" but i have always stayed away from using the term "Master" for God because of my D/s lifestyle and didn't want to use the same term for God and my Soul mate (Master). This maybe just my way of dealing with it -- Wrong or Right, it works for me.

There are a lot of things in BDSM that i wonder about if Right or Wrong in a religious way, but guess God knows W/we are all sinners *grins*




siamsa24 -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/22/2004 9:24:34 AM)

subbiejenn,
I couldn't have said it better myself. I use (and don't use) those same terms for those reasons. Glad to see there is someone else that shares my religious view on names [:)]




Thanatosian -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/22/2004 10:12:08 AM)

quote:

To say that "finally a serious question"... come on!


LadyA - I believe what MissFem was referring to with her "finally a serious quesiton" was her penchant for posting things like "If you were a cake, what type would you be" or "If you were a car, what thype would you be", etc. and not a comment on the contents of the board in general




knees2you -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/22/2004 11:15:38 AM)

This is why I have
A Mistress~~ [:D] lol

Sincerely, Anthony[;)]


[image]local://upfiles/19655/F9E2E73B7B72408380491D49F4B84DDD.jpg[/image]




kiki blue -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/22/2004 2:42:51 PM)

Using Lord as an honorific is very different than calling them God, which is again very different from believing they actually are a God.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/22/2004 5:57:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin
Our spirituality (or lack of it) may not be similar, but our views on superior/inferior are. Well said!


General misconception LadyShosin… I'm a very spiritual person in my own way. Atheist means that I don't believe in the existence of a god like thing and therefore don't have a need for a religion or to venerate anything. A lot of Atheists aren’t spiritual but many are.

I chose to enjoy the beauty of life for what *I* consider it to be, where I see the true miracle being that the whole, humanity, is greater then the sum of its parts. And then to the next level to animal, vegetable, mineral, and on and on. My beliefs about life and how/why we are here are very closely aligned closely aligned with the non-religious Taoist precepts. (Taoism was at the origin a philosophical & psychological code for living written by Lao-tzu in the Tao-te-Ching which then unfortunately got turned into a state religion in 440 CE). Tao (pronounced "Dow") can be roughly translated into English as "path", or "the way". It refers to a power which envelops, surrounds and flows through all things, living and non-living.

And all of this to me means that we all co-exist on the same path and just manifest out our desires, needs, etc in the way we need to. D/s as well as S&M is very much along the path of Yin Yang for me. None is superior and none is inferior and one cannot exist without the other.

- LA

[image]local://upfiles/36532/FBF9F0220E6B4BD38E97F3A47D83A49B.jpg[/image]




LadyAngelika -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/22/2004 6:04:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thanatosian

quote:

To say that "finally a serious question"... come on!


LadyA - I believe what MissFem was referring to with her "finally a serious quesiton" was her penchant for posting things like "If you were a cake, what type would you be" or "If you were a car, what thype would you be", etc. and not a comment on the contents of the board in general


I know. And I agree 100% that there have been too many of those kinds of threads lately. However, there have also been some very interesting and thought provoking threads lately and I find the comment about "finally" somewhat pretentious in my opinion.

My plan was not to make a big deal about it, just voicing my impressions. . A simple "come on" was my only remark until now but apparently a little bit of a reality check still shook things up. Damn Thanatosian! Am I really that good? :) Haha!! (please note the tongue in cheek!!)

I did tell MissFem that her thread was a good one, which is why I’m giving it time and attention.

- LA




MissFem -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/23/2004 7:59:24 AM)

quote:

The topic, like most others, have been discussed here and we enjoy bringing them back up again. To say that "finally a serious question"... come on! Plenty of serious questions have been asked in these forums. I hope you were jesting in your title!




I put serious question....because I hardly ask anything serious here




MissFem -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/23/2004 8:01:54 AM)

thank you all for your opinions.....I allowed my friend on my PC to come and read everyones replies....she was really enlightened....again I thank you




ShrewWhisperer -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/24/2004 5:14:59 AM)

Hi Kiki,


quote:

ORIGINAL: kiki blue

Using Lord as an honorific is very different than calling them God, which is again very different from believing they actually are a God.


In a lot of religion, the word is the word is the word. There is no possible defiation from the word. Now I know that sounds silly in a modern context, but for 1400 years the priests stood between christians and thier god, a fundementalist view of the good book is a response to not even being able to understand the language the priests were speaking in for so long.

It is popular to run fundy's into the ground for being small minded and maybe a titch backwards, but they ain't, they are thinking human beings who prefer using words as words are meant, not letting madison avenue (and any like minded organization) sully words until they have no meaning that can be applied to the ideal they have of their god.

(btw, i know you weren't sullying, or stepping on anyone, I was just making a point off of what you said. :)




Suleiman -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/24/2004 8:55:17 AM)

Okay, admittedly I'm second generation pagan so there are times when I don't know what all the fuss about, but I thought the whole reason the God of Abraham was called Lord was because of the whole "Thou shalt not take thy lord's name in vain" thing. Folks have been refusing to take their lord's name in vain for so long that they forgot how to pronounce YHVH over 2300 years ago!




kiki blue -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/26/2004 8:49:02 AM)

Lord doesn't always equal God though. A Lord is the male equivelant of Lady, in the aristocratic sense.


But really, if someone wants to call their domly one Lord High Stinky Pants, and another uses Lord God of Pain - what's it to you, or anyone else? Plenty of fem doms use goddess in their nicks, and doesn't seem to be a problem for most.

What other people do in their relationship has no bearing on what I do in mine.




LadyBeckett -> RE: Religion & BDSM (9/26/2004 9:05:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyShoshin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I guess I'm pretty constant in that I don't really believe in the whole superior/inferior crap. I always found someone who considered themselves superior where covering up a whole lot of insecurity.

- LA

Our spirituality (or lack of it) may not be similar, but our views on superior/inferior are. Well said!


Ditto!




addicted2it -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/26/2004 2:43:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissFem

I was not so sure where to put this so here gose...........

not long ago I had a friend that asked me about religions...well me being me told her I have a pet rock as a higher power...ok that was not the time to say it...but I did

i would have expected nothing less than that answer from You.

anyway the question revolved around this....There are religious people in BDSM ...now if a fem sub calls her Master names such as "Master...and Lord {insert a name} how can they call their higher power such names? Isnt God called those names? so a human can not be right?

ok so I didnt know how to answer this....can I get some help here? because to me she was right....



MissFem, the only religion i personally know of that falls within the confines of BDSM is the Church of Mankind: Sanctuary of the Goddess. Conventional religion would call O/our practices abhorrent and abominable ("You will all burn in hell." That sort of response!). Not that religions haven't practiced some form of sadism throughout the ages, because they indeed have, and perhaps still do.

i don't remember any human being i have ever met named "God." Since i do not practice any particular religion (i'm a former Catholic, by the way), i now consider myself to be "spiritual" rather than religious. And, if there is a God or Goddess, He or She is within all of us as a collective entity.

But calling someone "Master" or "Lord" does not seem to violate any religious doctrine that i personally know of. If one belives that "God" is the highest of powers, then what difference does it make when calling someone "Master" or "Lord" when they are certainly considered lower in stature than a God or Goddess?

i intend to leave the rest of this thread alone, or to those religious zealots out there (and i sure hope they're not members of this community) who can give You a more clerical answer.

-phil




Laura -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/26/2004 5:53:02 PM)

I think each person chooses what meaning the words/ titles have for them. Why can't Lord have several meanings? Language is never a stagnant, it shifts and changes all the time.




Thanatosian -> RE: Finally a serious question (9/27/2004 10:34:05 AM)

quote:

Language is never a stagnant, it shifts and changes all the time.


One of the definitions of 'master' not listed by Shoshin (because it has fallen out of use) is "an unmarried male" - and at one time 'master' was used to refer to any male who had not yet reached the age of majority, whereafter they were called mister

just my tuppence




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