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RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 8:33:01 AM   
AspX


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Actually, I learned the breathing techniques many years ago when I was very ill and in chronic, extreme pain. I was taught it as a means of coping with the pain. I breathe in deeply through my nose and exhale deeply through my mouth. The exhalation is a "pursed lip" method that forces the lungs to more completely empty and offload a greater amount of carbon dioxide, thus allowing greater oxygenation on the susbsequent inhale. I combine this with a visualization. On the inhalation I visualize the air coming in as cool and green and I visualize it travelling through my body to the source of pain, which I visualize as hot and red. The green cools the hot and red and I visualize the exhale as the green mixing with the hot and red and carrying it back out. Yes, I can handle extreme pain using this method and it has become a quick, well worn path to subspace.


Thanks for the explanation and for anyone reading this thread that objects to my suggested methodology, I would suggest this as an alternative. A search on the term "Pursed Lip Breathing" will provide many links to training techniques.



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 8:34:25 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

But freedom is in integral part of tantric exercise.  Being gagged during tantric breathing would pretty much restrict that, so I wouldn't necessarily define it as tantric. 


I would agree with you that it is no way tantra and in fact, I even start the article with that type of statement...

quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX

Tantra as an art is a way to deepen and prolong the sexual experience. BDSM play generally has nothing to do with that, but some parts of tantric techniques can actually be utilized to enhance the experience of BDSM.


The nose breathing is my suggested method for achieving this breath (although not the only one) and the gagging is a method for teaching it to a sub. In Tantra, the combining of breath... both inhalation and exhalation is an integral part of the practice however I am not suggesting that this is supposed to be tantra.


I understand that.  But you did post this...

quote:

To incorporate this into BDSM play as a dom, the best way to begin is actually to fully gag your sub. Forcing them to breathe through their nose because they can not through their mouth, rather than just ordering them, to seems to be more effective teaching technique for some reason *G*. I would recommend using a ball gag and a self-adhesive Ace bandage (1 1/2" - 2" variety), to fully cover the mouth. Once gagged, focus on getting the sub to breathe in and out as deeply as possible before moving forward with your play. Removing all thoughts outside of the breath at this time is the first step for the beginner tantric sub.


You cannot define 'tantra'... in itself it cannot be done.  However, to make the claim that this in some way is a tantric exercise is a stretch in itself.  You keep mentioning your experience of yoga.  If you are practiced in yoga techniques, you would know that although they do have similarities that overlap, that tantra is about excess, not just about control and in this using what you call 'tantric breathing' is misleading.  They manifest differently - yoga is the spirit, tantra is the mind.  It's not about control, it is about awareness.

I just disagree with your use of the word and find it a bit misleading.  Dropping into subspace does not make one aware - you see?

quote:

Yoga is suppression with awareness; tantra is indulgence with awareness
Osho


_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 8:37:17 AM   
AspX


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/23/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Tantra isn't just about the "sexual experience", it's about "experience". Yes, sexuality plays an important role, but I think you do an entire religious belief system a considerable injustice by saying that it is "a way to deepen and prolong the sexual experience".


You are correct that I am probably doing that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I know it should go without saying - but it really pays to be very very explicit when discussing techniques/approaches so I'm going to say it for you...

Be very careful when choosing to block any of your partner's airways. Anxiety, Panic, Unconsciousness and even death can ensue under the wrong circumstances.



Again... I agree with you completely and thanks for bringing that up...

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 8:37:59 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX

During a conversation with a domme friend of mine, the subject of tantric BDSM came up and she asked about it.


Perhaps you can define "tantra BDSM" for those that are unfamiliar with the term. I'm aware of individuals that implement certain tenets of tantra into their BDSM practices, but I wouldn't attach the label you've used as an appropriate descriptor. My understanding of and practice of tantra is in its original form as a yogic path in Hinduism. It is also studied by those interested in Vajrayana Buddhism. The sexual presentation of the subject is what Westerner's have latched onto. That is a minor aspect in all truth. It is esoteric and requires no physical manipulation by the other party. In the simplest form it is the unification of the masculine and feminine energies of the two to awaken the kundalini which results in a transcendent experience that allows the manifestation of pure consciousness.

The breathing techniques utilized while engaging in yoga or meditation are for grounding and clearing purposes. It allows the practitioner to confront internal blockages (fear, anger, unresolved emotions) and dispel them. Ones proficiency in this practice has a significant impact on the internal energy movement and its ability to reach the crown and above without hindrance. It's a repetitive process. The male and female are representations of the divine as shown in Shakti and her consort Shiva. She is the yin and he is the yang. One light and the other dark, yet made whole when they coalesce. It is not uncommon for practicing tantrists to visualize colors and other imagery when orgasm occurs.

In terms of the breathing techniques, I consider them consciousness raising exercises that keep me in a present yet seemly ecstatic state. My senses and responses are greatly heightened and the desire to struggle or hinder the other party is nonexistent. The reverse occurs and I welcome his presence and process the pain in a different manner. I find it liberating and as the intensity builds my relaxation increases and a settled feeling permeates.

The most important element I incorporate is flowing with the energy rather than against it. I don't distract my thoughts and view the engagement as an opportunity for emptying which occurs exponentially. It is a state of being rather than intentional manipulation to make me relax and accept what's taking place. However, I will candidly admit that my experience and practice were well in existence before I became involved in sadism. And to this I'll add that having some understanding of kundalini and tantric pranayama (life-force) were of significant assistance.

Thanks for sharing.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 8:54:10 AM   
AspX


Posts: 69
Joined: 3/23/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

But freedom is in integral part of tantric exercise.  Being gagged during tantric breathing would pretty much restrict that, so I wouldn't necessarily define it as tantric. 


I would agree with you that it is no way tantra and in fact, I even start the article with that type of statement...

quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX

Tantra as an art is a way to deepen and prolong the sexual experience. BDSM play generally has nothing to do with that, but some parts of tantric techniques can actually be utilized to enhance the experience of BDSM.


The nose breathing is my suggested method for achieving this breath (although not the only one) and the gagging is a method for teaching it to a sub. In Tantra, the combining of breath... both inhalation and exhalation is an integral part of the practice however I am not suggesting that this is supposed to be tantra.


I understand that.  But you did post this...

quote:

To incorporate this into BDSM play as a dom, the best way to begin is actually to fully gag your sub. Forcing them to breathe through their nose because they can not through their mouth, rather than just ordering them, to seems to be more effective teaching technique for some reason *G*. I would recommend using a ball gag and a self-adhesive Ace bandage (1 1/2" - 2" variety), to fully cover the mouth. Once gagged, focus on getting the sub to breathe in and out as deeply as possible before moving forward with your play. Removing all thoughts outside of the breath at this time is the first step for the beginner tantric sub.


You cannot define 'tantra'... in itself it cannot be done.  However, to make the claim that this in some way is a tantric exercise is a stretch in itself.  You keep mentioning your experience of yoga.  If you are practiced in yoga techniques, you would know that although they do have similarities that overlap, that tantra is about excess, not just about control and in this using what you call 'tantric breathing' is misleading.  They manifest differently - yoga is the spirit, tantra is the mind.  It's not about control, it is about awareness.

I just disagree with your use of the word and find it a bit misleading.  Dropping into subspace does not make one aware - you see?

quote:

Yoga is suppression with awareness; tantra is indulgence with awareness
Osho



Your objection is duly noted and valid in many ways, but the point of what I wrote isn't about the parsing of words between tantra, yoga or deep breathing and I don't want the thread to be hijacked by that kind of discussion.

What I wrote is about a suggested technique for using breath to deepen a sub's experience during BDSM play regardless of what you wish to call it. If you have an alternative suggestion for that, wish to agree with DesFIP's objection to a sub being in subspace during a session, or even put forward your own suggestions then I would really love to hear it.

I put forward my suggestion... now as someone who obviously knows and cares about tantra, I challenge you to show us how you can apply those techniques to BDSM play to deepen the connection and heighten the awareness between Dom and sub. I am always looking to learn whatever I can from the obviously intelligent people on this board.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 9:08:00 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AspX
I put forward my suggestion... now as someone who obviously knows and cares about tantra, I challenge you to show us how you can apply those techniques to BDSM play to deepen the connection and heighten the awareness between Dom and sub. I am always looking to learn whatever I can from the obviously intelligent people on this board.


I do appriciate your post, I really do.  The difficult thing about the written word is that I(using me as an example) can come across as excessively critical when all I am trying to do is offer my personal experience.

That said, I don't believe I can take up your challange because I don't believe that tantric exercise can be shown or explained in the written word.  It's something you need to see and/or experience, so I would highly recommend anyone who would like to incorporate it into their BDSM sessions, or even into their lovemaking session, to attend classes.  I don't believe it is wise to explain breathing techniques online, particularly without images, because I am sure there will be people who will think it's a great idea and then try it, without realising the postional risks.  It's like trying to explain how to use a flogger using words - you see?  I have seen people hypervent because they 'think' they are controling breathing, and that's really not good.

Tantra is extremely personal and it depends on the state of mind of a person and how they can use their mind and it can be dangerous without proper aftercare as well.  Yoga is more about the spirit of a person.  I would not use either as a way to explore extremely deep subspace as you suggested - UNLESS the person can space in a state of awareness and I have never met someone who has entered space to be enlightened - but that doesn't mean it cannot occur.

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 12:28:43 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

I do appriciate your post, I really do.  The difficult thing about the written word is that I(using me as an example) can come across as excessively critical when all I am trying to do is offer my personal experience.


I'm sorry, I have to hijack this thread to say that image is positively adorable! It's like an grownup version of Kim Anderson's work. But then I don't deny my bias where you're concerned. *muah*

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 5:10:46 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		As others have posted here, yes, deep breathing techniques are very useful for pain and energy management. But are they "Tantra?" No, not any more than they are Lamaze or any other form of breathwork.

i'm a 200-RYT certified yoga specilizing in Viniyoga (Krishnamacharya lineage) and yoga therapy. As others here have pointed out, Tantra is a complicated belief and energy system involving multiple disciplines of more than just the body - it is actually much more focused on the mind. Westerners have enjoyed latching onto the "mystical sexual powers" of tantric discipline - and have mis-labeled many things as "Tantric" as a result. Yes, sex is part of Tantra, but only as it relates to the mind, as Tantra seeks to use the mind to balance body and spirit. And it must be practiced as a system, not as individual components.

But deep breathing? Yes, i'm a fan, as long as it's being called simply what it is, and not being mislabeled as "Tantric."

There are many yogic breath techniques (pranayama) that can be applied to BDSM. If you'd like to read more, i suggest any of Gary Kraftsow's books, or "The Breathing Book" by Donna Farhi. And yes, there are risks, especially if you're working with a submissive that may have a mood disorder or other brain energy imbalance. Go slow, do not restrict the breathing, and be aware that the response to the breathwork is entirely individual - you cannot make blanket statements that say that a particular breathing pattern is good for everyone.

As an aside, Mudras (yoga positions for the hands and fingers) also come in quite handy with BDSM. i often hold Pran Mudra (Life Mudra - last two fingers touched to thumb) while i'm submitting. There's a fabulous book called "Mudras - Yoga in your Hands" by Gertrud Hirschi if you're interested.

< Message edited by UniqueRaven -- 7/20/2010 5:12:13 PM >

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 5:16:59 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

Tantra is extremely personal and it depends on the state of mind of a person and how they can use their mind and it can be dangerous without proper aftercare as well.  Yoga is more about the spirit of a person.  I would not use either as a way to explore extremely deep subspace as you suggested - UNLESS the person can space in a state of awareness and I have never met someone who has entered space to be enlightened - but that doesn't mean it cannot occur.

the.dark.


Yes, good point.

After my many years of yoga and meditative (kundalini) training, i will say that "deep subspace" and my "meditative space" are pretty much the same things these days. But it has taken YEARS of regular practice, and i still do not consider myself more than an mid-level practitioner. The more you do it, the more you realize how much farther you have to go....

It just isn't as simple as many people want it to be. Westerners live in an "instant" society and often the perception is "just do this" and an instant result is achieved. It really just isn't true.

The human body is a complex system that is best explored gently.....

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 5:46:05 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		It’s interesting to think about something we don’t talk about too much. Breathing affects the submissive in BDSM play and I believe she will find her way into some kind of rhythmic breathing even if the Dom doesn’t say anything. She has to as she feels the rhythm of the flogger or whatever is being used on her. I know I concentrate on giving a consistent, measured beating that’s she can adapt to. It’s a metrical line, an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable that she can follow and breathe with. Good thread.

< Message edited by ExSteelAgain -- 7/20/2010 6:02:48 PM >

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/20/2010 9:20:17 PM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry AspX, you have been grossly mislead. Your post merely serves to mislead others.

Having virtually nothing to do with classical Eastern tantra, Western neo-tantra in its most shallow form pertains to delaying the male ejaculation and prolonging the female orgasm. In its deeper manifestation, Western neo-tantra pertains to sharing intimacy at emotional levels beyond sexuality.

Anybody can assign any label to anything. Nonetheless, BDSM gold does not yield even one molecule of real gold.

Classical tantra, or tantrika, pertains to opening one's self at seven levels or chakras. Such opening embodies both awareness (shiva) and energy (shakti). Part of this process involves recognizing both aspects within, at each level. How classical tantra pertains to BDSM is that the both control and surrender aspects exist within every person. The process involves gaining awareness of where the energy balance exists, along the continuum between the polarities of control and surrender. Learn about REAL tantra here:

Shiva Shakti Mandalam

There is no such thing as "tantric breathing." (Yes, please provide the Sanskrit name for it). There is such a thing as pranayama, which is typically incorporated with the Hatha Yoga aspect of Ashtanga Yoga or Raja Yoga.

Tantra is not "art." It is a spiritual practice.


(in reply to AspX)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/21/2010 12:39:16 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

I do appriciate your post, I really do.  The difficult thing about the written word is that I(using me as an example) can come across as excessively critical when all I am trying to do is offer my personal experience.


I'm sorry, I have to hijack this thread to say that image is positively adorable! It's like an grownup version of Kim Anderson's work. But then I don't deny my bias where you're concerned. *muah*

~porcelaine



Heh... it is grown up Anderson isn't it... I had not thought of that!  Thank you and big smoochies xxxx

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/21/2010 12:40:14 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Indeed.

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Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Article: Tantric Breath and BDSM play - 7/21/2010 12:41:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven
The human body is a complex system that is best explored gently.....


This. 

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
Profile   Post #: 34
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