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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
It is an easier journey for a girlie boy. We are already fighting a socialized norm and thus, letting go of male socialized behavior tends to be what we are all about. Submission, IMO, comes easier...but what the girlie boy has to fight is to "look up" from ourselves and our own interests and needs to embrace the needs of another

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ORIGINAL: slavekal

Great topic.  Do you mind if the guys weigh in?  This is a really complicated issue with no easy answers.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR - Just to remind of that most, perhaps, will consider obvious, but which nonetheless can somehow disappear in discussions like this:  A man who has freed himself from  male socialisation doesn't, thereby, automatically become more 'feminine' -  he just becomes more himself.

There's an important practical corollary.   This is that it's a can be a lot easier for many men to redefine 'masculine' for themselves than to accept the idea of 'becoming more feminine'. 

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Put at its simplest, the maxim, lesson for a male is: 'You don't have to try to be a man - you already are one.  You are a man, therefore, whatever you do is manly, and that's that.'   And likewise, whatever a woman does is womanly, by definition. 

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ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
Because of my own sexual preference for men, I've ethically avoided engaging in relationships with transgendered women even when I find them very hot, because what I actually like about them and find sexually attractive is their maleness in balance, not really their femaleness.   That would make me a really lousy partner for a TG who needed to express her femme side or become fully female as opposed to remaining androgynous or balanced.  A TG needs a fully supportive partner who can embrace her femininity and be attracted to it, and that's actually not me, despite the fact that I am very much attracted to androgyny and genderbending.  Thing is, the guy's got to be either bisexual or genderbent/genderqueer, AND 100% comfortable remaining physically male and totally outside either one of the traditional gender boxes, but able to play freely on either field.

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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
I will simply say here that I believe that there is a pretty vast difference between a "male" and a "man" and that I have met many of the former, and only few of the latter....but I take your meaning P and I don't think you were arguing stridently for every male being a "man" as you have no doubt seen me ascribe in my posts. 

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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Very manly of me, don't you think?  

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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

This is for the Ladies...some thoughts on submission and male behavior...


And so you have a guy who feels feelings of submission, fights his socialization, and maybe comes to a place where he is ready to explore this in real time. What I have seen on these forums is that they will often come at it first with a "this far and no farther" attitude.

This does not feel like submission to a lot of Dommes and so they go away disappointed...when in fact, the guy had made significant progress in rethinking his socialization and is sort of in the "proof of concept stage". Whereas She is looking for someone who has made the journey lock stock and barrel...I don't think you find too many of those guys out there who will go all the way on their own.  Not saying that it cannot happen, but it is a lot to get through on one's own.


In either case, I believe that there can be a good submissive inside that male, be he girlie or not...the key is evaluating where they are in that evolution and considering if they would be worth helping - either through that "proof of concept" stage, or into that "get outside of yourself" stage and into actual submission.

I am wondering if the Ladies who are searching have thought of this, and either agree or disagree with it, or have additional thoughts.  And what about the submissive males - what are your thoughts?  Do you recognize this in yourself, or not?  Do you have additional thoughts?

Thanks for reading. :)

<3 Otter/Sabene

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ORIGINAL: KurtAllen

I agree with Pact, dont look for another to give you or even assist you in acquireing the quality of manhood you aspiret to.
Its entirely up you.
Years ago I was told you will become all you want to be when you become all you already are and no one can help you or do it for you. The man telling me that said it daily to me in seven languages, later in life I spoke read and wrote in all those languages and that was part of his lession.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

To appear to lay it on the female Dominant population at large when there is no vested interest is asking more than some people are willing to contribute.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
...

While this is a wonderful piece and I believe your heart is in the right place, the problem with this concept is that it starts sounding as though these males are owed some sort of entitlement on the part of Dominant women.  Helping others to reach this place you speak of is not something that can be demanded or someone made to feel like it is expected in some way.  This is not the case.  It comes across too much as though this is some kind of charitable process where Dominant women are here for the purpose of this goal.  It's almost like saying just because someone puts the submissive label on themselves, they should now be considered somebody's project.

We are all in a state of progress, rather than perfection.  Yet, to assume that others are primarily interested in coaxing them along to where they need to be puts the responsibility for the work on a person that can't do it for them.  In a dynamic of some sort, this would be a part of a healthy relationship and of course partners want to nurture growth.  To appear to lay it on the female Dominant population at large when there is no vested interest is asking more than some people are willing to contribute.