RE: You're Fired!!!

RE: You're Fired!!! (Full Version)

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BeingChewsie -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 1:40:28 PM)
The problem with trying to apply that law to the terminated employee is that law is about prospective voting, the person's right to vote wasn't in anyway interfered with because the firing came AFTER they voted(This assumes they didn't know their bosses position on the issue). There may very well be other laws that they can fall back on but we are not sure it is this one, as in all things laws are rarely back or white, there are miles and miles of grey. This law however could be used by all the other employees who now feel they have been threatened, coerced, or intimidated and can no longer vote the way they believe for fear of losing their jobs. That is just ugly, what attorney would ever advise a company to go there? quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy No, it is not that at all.....Please refer to what was posted. Refute this if you care to proceed. Section 11 (b) of the 1965 Voting Rights Act as amended 43 U.S.C. Section 1971(b) provides: No person, whether acting under color of law or otherwise, shall intimidate, threaten, coerce, or attempt to intimidate, threaten, or coerce any other person for the purpose of interfering with the right of such other person to vote or to vote as he may choose, or of causing such other person to vote for, or not to vote for, any candidate for the office of President, Vice President, presidential elector, Member of the Senate, or Member of the House of Representatives, Delegates or Commissioners from the Territories or possessions, at any general, special, or primary election held solely or in part for the purpose of selecting or electing any such candidate. off shoot on the topic at hand, I know that in many states at one time a person could be fired for their sexual orientation...it is an ever changing landscape as more and more states are now protecting these employees. However, although the person might be able to fire someone for voting the "wrong way" they would definitely be found guilty of intimidating a person to vote in a particular fashion. Thereby making it illegal. If you cannot argue these points then please acknowledge it and move on.

slvemike4u -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:15:34 PM)
Well elections aren't one and done here....there is always another...wouldn't firing one employee for how he/she voted in the previous election serve to intimidate other employees for the next election?

MrRodgers -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:25:05 PM)
It's just another little step toward capitalist fascism...so what else is new ?

MrRodgers -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:26:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually you cannot be terminated for voting for someone. It would fall under wrongful termination in violation of public policy. Not for private employers. I can fire anyone for any reason.

realwhiteknight -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:27:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie quote: You asked is it illegal, it is. I don't think the firing of person would be illegal. I think that person would be shit out of luck, but I believe and my attorney spouse believe the other employees would have a cause of action under the federal law cited above. They could argue that the employment environment is coercive/hostile based on the firing of that person for how they voted. Courts take the right to vote very seriously. I don't think any company that has decent legal counsel would want to go near firing someone based on who they voted for. It just opens an ugly can of worms and the damages the other employees might be able to claim make that whole scenario from a smart business standpoint a non-starter. Why go there when there are so many other avenues for termination of employees that don't put you or your company at any risk? Never mind the person you canned what about the x number of employees who now feel "threatened, coerced and intimidated" and have an actionable cause? Thanks for this information. Also, I believe the answer to your Why go there? question, in the case that gave birth to this thread, is Because he's an ass.

rulemylife -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:35:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually you cannot be terminated for voting for someone. It would fall under wrongful termination in violation of public policy. Not for private employers. I can fire anyone for any reason. No you can't. There are numerous laws protecting employee rights. An example off the top of my head would be firing someone involved in union organizing. Try that and see what the National Labor Relations Board will have to say about it.

domiguy -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:37:02 PM)
I tried to find as much information on this topic as I could stand to wade through. It seems it actually comes down to a first amendment fight. Different states have different rulings as to what constitutes a "legal" firing based upon political affiliations and the activities that one has engaged in due to those political affiliations that ultimately led to the termination. Some say if you were dismissed because you engaged working at a polling station or were dismissed due to handing out literature that would be considered illegal where as the your own political beliefs would not be protected. If you are a gov't, public sector, employee it changes dramatically where you are afforded protection of your political beliefs. In the private sector it is not nearly as clear cut. Many states are now reviewing "at will" employee firings and placing much more stringent guidelines as to what criteria represents a valid and legal termination. However, I am going to come to Treasure's defense. If the employer never coerced or made threats that one's employment was in peril if they did not vote in a certain fashion then in the many cases, that I could find, there was little indication that the employer had done anything illegal in terminating that employee. in other words, if you know your employer has strong political affiliations and beliefs it is wise to lie and agree with those held by your employer or just stay quiet about your own political ideologies if they are in direct contrast of those of your employer. One last note which has little to do with the legality of the terminations. Even though the courts hands were tied by law, many justices stated when rendering their decisions stated that the the tactic of removing someone due to their political affiliations , to paraphrase, was an abhorrent but not an illegal practice. That I think we can all agree on. It seems that this is something that as we become more and more polarized politically that the courts will readdress. It's amazing what one will find if they research a subject. My apologies for not doing so sooner.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:44:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 Actually the statute that Jeff quoted IS West Virginia's indication that they do in fact have an interest in exercising the public policy doctrine with regard to at will employees. Wilbur, you also do not GET IT. No, neither of you know how to read.

MrRodgers -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 2:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually you cannot be terminated for voting for someone. It would fall under wrongful termination in violation of public policy. Not for private employers. I can fire anyone for any reason. No you can't. There are numerous laws protecting employee rights. An example off the top of my head would be firing someone involved in union organizing. Try that and see what the National Labor Relations Board will have to say about it. The only way in almost all cases, any employee is reinstated by employers is after a hearing and possible arbritration and even in the case of union representation...is extremely rare. Furthermore, unions and with ever-diminishing power in their contracts represent fewer than 1 out of 10 private employees. Ninety percent of private employees...are working 'at will,' i.e....fired anytime for any reason. Oh and Walmart for example has been and according to many...firing employees (marginalized, no raises, no promotions etc. and many quit) for union organizing and is the major reason for no unions at Walmart. When a store in Quebec did organize, Walmart immediately closed the store saying it was...all of a sudden, unprofitable.

rulemylife -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 3:43:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers The only way in almost all cases, any employee is reinstated by employers is after a hearing and possible arbritration and even in the case of union representation...is extremely rare. Furthermore, unions and with ever-diminishing power in their contracts represent fewer than 1 out of 10 private employees. Ninety percent of private employees...are working 'at will,' i.e....fired anytime for any reason. Oh and Walmart for example has been and according to many...firing employees (marginalized, no raises, no promotions etc. and many quit) for union organizing and is the major reason for no unions at Walmart. When a store in Quebec did organize, Walmart immediately closed the store saying it was...all of a sudden, unprofitable. You really have no idea of how labor laws work. I hope you stay out of trouble, because while most of those laws have no teeth it is the rulings that arise from them that are the basis for civil suits. Do you realize how much Wal-Mart has paid out in litigation stemming from employee rights violations?

slvemike4u -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 4:13:08 PM)
From my understanding of their labor practices ,.......not nearly enough.[8\|]

DomKen -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 4:32:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Actually you cannot be terminated for voting for someone. It would fall under wrongful termination in violation of public policy. Not for private employers. I can fire anyone for any reason. No. you cannot. In this case the law is quite specific. Wrongful termination in violation of public policy is when an at will employee is terminated for exercise of his constitutional or statutory right or responsibility. That is why you can't be fired for being called for jury duty or taking time out of the work day to vote. It also protects against retaliation for exercise of those rights and responsibilities. If you were terminated anyway you would have a tort against your former employer where you could seek lost income, damages, all costs and a court order that you be fully reinstated. Since your case would be decided by a jury it would be an easy win as people find the idea of being fired for how you voted repugnant.

slvemike4u -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 4:53:20 PM)
Its a little amazing that folks would need that pointed out to them.....isn't it? Being honest though I think this whole thread is based on so much bullshit....the one who made the claim is one of two things. 1) Too stupid to be running his own business ...or to be in a position of authority over others. 2) lying thru his fucking teeth about having fired folks for this reason...or lying that he had the balls/stupidity to tell them so. Now that I think of it that might actually be 4 things...oh well.[:)]

TreasureKY -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 5:51:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy I tried to find as much information on this topic as I could stand to wade through. It seems it actually comes down to a first amendment fight. Different states have different rulings as to what constitutes a "legal" firing based upon political affiliations and the activities that one has engaged in due to those political affiliations that ultimately led to the termination. Some say if you were dismissed because you engaged working at a polling station or were dismissed due to handing out literature that would be considered illegal where as the your own political beliefs would not be protected. If you are a gov't, public sector, employee it changes dramatically where you are afforded protection of your political beliefs. In the private sector it is not nearly as clear cut. Many states are now reviewing "at will" employee firings and placing much more stringent guidelines as to what criteria represents a valid and legal termination. However, I am going to come to Treasure's defense. If the employer never coerced or made threats that one's employment was in peril if they did not vote in a certain fashion then in the many cases, that I could find, there was little indication that the employer had done anything illegal in terminating that employee. in other words, if you know your employer has strong political affiliations and beliefs it is wise to lie and agree with those held by your employer or just stay quiet about your own political ideologies if they are in direct contrast of those of your employer. One last note which has little to do with the legality of the terminations. Even though the courts hands were tied by law, many justices stated when rendering their decisions stated that the the tactic of removing someone due to their political affiliations , to paraphrase, was an abhorrent but not an illegal practice. That I think we can all agree on. It seems that this is something that as we become more and more polarized politically that the courts will readdress. It's amazing what one will find if they research a subject. My apologies for not doing so sooner. Thank you, domi, for your time and research. I am greatly impressed. Yes, it is a very complex issue that is addressed with some differences in every state... though they are gradually coming in line with one another. I do agree that it is an abhorrent practice and my intention was not to condone it, but to point out that there is not one universal law in the States (ie, a Federal statute) that makes such a practice into a criminal offense... no matter how distasteful we might find it. I applaud your being able to hurdle the mountains of legalese involved with researching this topic and reaching a similar conclusion to those those given by BeingChewsie (and her attorney spouse)... the attorney I quoted in post 59 who stated, “There’s not really a federal statute that would cover this. It’s just not there. It has to be a public policy argument that is covered by state law,”... and the Justices who have had to address similar cases. Kudos to you.

thornhappy -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 6:17:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife An example off the top of my head would be firing someone involved in union organizing. Try that and see what the National Labor Relations Board will have to say about it. Of course, it'll only take 3-4 years to make the case...

marie2 -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 6:54:35 PM)
I'm going to weigh in with my little tidbit on this. The timing of this is kind funny, because I recently took a new job, and was handed a 46-page "Employee Manual". On the first page there's this entire paragraph that says that the company has the right "to revoke, suspend, terminate, change, deviate from, interpret and make exceptions to any of it's policies, including wages, procedures, rules, regulations and benefits." Then it goes on in more detail about their descretion about this and that and the other thing....(I'm not going to type out the whole paragraph) but the last sentence of it was actually shocking to me: "The company (not going to state the name) will continue to have the absolute power to terminate anyone's employment with or without due or just cause. I'm not concerned about being terminated. But damn....I was like WHAT????

TreasureKY -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 7:14:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 I'm going to weigh in with my little tidbit on this. The timing of this is kind funny, because I recently took a new job, and was handed a 46-page "Employee Manual". On the first page there's this entire paragraph that says that the company has the right "to revoke, suspend, terminate, change, deviate from, interpret and make exceptions to any of it's policies, including wages, procedures, rules, regulations and benefits." Then it goes on in more detail about their descretion about this and that and the other thing....(I'm not going to type out the whole paragraph) but the last sentence of it was actually shocking to me: "The company (not going to state the name) will continue to have the absolute power to terminate anyone's employment with or without due or just cause. I'm not concerned about being terminated. But damn....I was like WHAT???? Not unusual at all, Marie. Pretty much standard verbiage for employee manuals these days. This link is to a Law Firm in California, but their FAQ applies to just about anywhere. You might be really surprised by what you read.

VideoAdminRho -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 7:33:08 PM)
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks. Spirited discussion is fine, but remember to attack the post, not the poster. Thank you.

marie2 -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 8:07:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY Not unusual at all, Marie. Pretty much standard verbiage for employee manuals these days. This link is to a Law Firm in California, but their FAQ applies to just about anywhere. You might be really surprised by what you read. It's funny, I'm not used to this or receiving employee manuals the size of War and Peace. I've always worked in small private practices. But this is one of those corporate-type dental companies, with a ton of offices. It's a whole new ball of wax for me, and it's all written so they're protected from everything (even their own policies) and the employee basically has no rights at all.

slvemike4u -> RE: You're Fired!!! (7/25/2010 8:10:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 I'm going to weigh in with my little tidbit on this. The timing of this is kind funny, because I recently took a new job, and was handed a 46-page "Employee Manual". On the first page there's this entire paragraph that says that the company has the right "to revoke, suspend, terminate, change, deviate from, interpret and make exceptions to any of it's policies, including wages, procedures, rules, regulations and benefits." Then it goes on in more detail about their descretion about this and that and the other thing....(I'm not going to type out the whole paragraph) but the last sentence of it was actually shocking to me: "The company (not going to state the name) will continue to have the absolute power to terminate anyone's employment with or without due or just cause. I'm not concerned about being terminated. But damn....I was like WHAT???? And when I check my coat at a restraunt...the check ticket will probably tell me that they are not responsible for my coat....standard boilerplate disclaimer.In reality though it holds no force of law....if they accept my coat...and thru their negligence said coat is damaged or lost they are damm well responsible despite what the back of the claim ticket may declare.Look at the back of a standard baseball ticket...it will state they are not responsible should you be struck with a foul ball.....they can state that,and in truth it just might disuade some from seeking redress....but it does not hold up in court.

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