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RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 8:28:13 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I tried to find as much information on this topic as I could stand to wade through. It seems it actually comes down to a first amendment fight. Different states have different rulings as to what constitutes a "legal" firing based upon political affiliations and the activities that one has engaged in due to those political affiliations that ultimately led to the termination.

Some say if you were dismissed because you engaged working at a polling station or were dismissed due to handing out literature that would be considered illegal where as the your own political beliefs would not be protected.

If you are a gov't, public sector, employee it changes dramatically where you are afforded protection of your political beliefs.

In the private sector it is not nearly as clear cut.

Many states are now reviewing "at will" employee firings and placing much more stringent guidelines as to what criteria represents a valid and legal termination.

However, I am going to come to Treasure's defense. If the employer never coerced or made threats that one's employment was in peril if they did not vote in a certain fashion then in the many cases, that I could find, there was little indication that the employer had done anything illegal in terminating that employee.

in other words, if you know your employer has strong political affiliations and beliefs it is wise to lie and agree with those held by your employer or just stay quiet about your own political ideologies if they are in direct contrast of those of your employer.

One last note which has little to do with the legality of the terminations. Even though the courts hands were tied by law, many justices stated when rendering their decisions stated that the the tactic of removing someone due to their political affiliations , to paraphrase, was an abhorrent but not an illegal practice.

That I think we can all agree on. It seems that this is something that as we become more and more polarized politically that the courts will readdress.

It's amazing what one will find if they research a subject. My apologies for not doing so sooner.


There is no argument here.

It is an illegal practice based on numerous laws.

It is only being contested by those who believe that employment-at-will means the employer is free to do what they want.

Sorry, but slavery only in exists in our BDSM fantasy world.  

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 8:31:44 PM   
slvemike4u


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Yeah and its been my experience that even that fantasy l/s is damm hard to find

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 8:32:12 PM   
Arpig


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The US sure is one fucking weird place...to quote Leonard Cohen's mother when he first went to the States: "Be careful Leonard, they're not like us."

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 8:58:07 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

The US sure is one fucking weird place...to quote Leonard Cohen's mother when he first went to the States: "Be careful Leonard, they're not like us."



Ha! I don't know who Leonard Cohen is, but his mother was right.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 9:01:15 PM   
realwhiteknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

The US sure is one fucking weird place...to quote Leonard Cohen's mother when he first went to the States: "Be careful Leonard, they're not like us."


hahahahaha


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 9:21:57 PM   
slvemike4u


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Fuck Leonard's mother(and I don't usually talk that way about folks mothers...that sort of shit can get your lights punched out).

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to realwhiteknight)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 9:24:00 PM   
Arpig


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Well she's right, for all the similarities between us, there are some huge differences, and those differences often make you guys seem totally bizarre to us.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!


Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran


(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 9:34:35 PM   
slvemike4u


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Damm Arpig ...if you want to know what bizarre is imagine growing up in New York...and finding yourself in bumfuck North Carolina at my age....these people are downright fucking wierd....lol.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 9:42:18 PM   
marie2


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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Damm Arpig ...if you want to know what bizarre is imagine growing up in New York...and finding yourself in bumfuck North Carolina at my age....these people are downright fucking wierd....lol.



It can't be worse than the NJ Pinelands. These people are a fuckin hoot. They'll piss on a tree like a fucking dog, right in a public area. And they spit on the sidewalk, smoke a cigarette then pitch the butt right out onto their own lawns.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 10:22:00 PM   
domiguy


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there were many sources that I looked at as well as court cases though some were fairly dated. This is an article that I thought shed some interesting light on the topic.....

http://www.lawfirms.com/feed-item/political-discrimination-new-york

Written by Richard G. Kass

Practice: Labor Law and Employment Law

Education: Harvard Law School
(J.D., cum laude, 1985)
Yale University
(B.A., summa cum laude, 1982)

In many workplaces, it is not uncommon for employees to speak with each other about politics. As managers and employees learn each others’ political views, some employees may get the impression—rightly or wrongly—that their employers are discriminating against them because of political disagreements.

Sometimes, political discrimination can be overt. In the 2004 presidential campaign, there was a well-publicized incident in which an employer in Alabama told an employee that she was being discharged because she had a John Kerry bumper sticker on her car. But even when the employer does not expressly state why it has taken an adverse action against an employee, the circumstances may support an inference that the reason was political.

Employers and employees often assume that employment discrimination on the basis of political beliefs is unlawful. After all, discrimination on the basis of such obscure categories as marital status and genetic predisposition is unlawful, and human resources professionals constantly stress that all personnel decisions should be based on merit. However, surprising as it may seem, federal and New York law do not generally prohibit political discrimination in the private sector. The First Amendment restricts action against political dissentersby the government, but it does not restrict action by private actors. An employer that fires an employee because of a political bumper sticker may well be acting within its legal rights, reprehensible as such an action may seem. This blogpost examines the types of political discrimination that are plainly unlawful, as well as legal theories that can be argued when none of the well-established prohibitions applies.



Political Discrimination in the Public Sector

It is well-established that public employers (e.g., federal, state, and local governments, school districts, public authorities, etc.) may not discriminate against their employees on the basis of their political beliefs or affiliations. The United States Supreme Court, in Elrod v. Burns and Branti v. Finkel, has held that such discrimination violates the First Amendment rights of the employees, and may be challenged in federal court. A major exception to this rule provides that policymaking employees may be lawfully subjected to political discrimination, so that the will of the people as expressed at the ballot box can be carried out by officials who are loyal to the political agenda of elected officials.

The Elrod/Branti rule has generated a complex body of caselaw. A discussion of the intricacies of First Amendment law under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 as applied to public employees would take volumes. It is sufficient for our purposes here to state that public sector employees have a great deal of protection against political discrimination.

New York “Political Activities” Law

In 1992, the New York Legislature added Section 201-d to the New York Labor Law. This statute is best known for its prohibition against employment discrimination on the basis of off-duty “recreational activities” such as smoking and skiing. Less well known is the statute’s prohibition of discrimination on the basis of an employee’s “political activities outside of working hours, off of the employer’s premises and without use of the employer’s equipment or other property.”

The statute’s definition of “political activities” is relatively narrow. It covers “running for public office,” “campaigning for a candidate for public office,” or participating in political fundraising activities. It does not include mere political belief, or an expression of political views. Thus, an employer would violate the statute if it were to discharge an employee because she handed out leaflets for a candidate at a train station in her spare time, but would be in compliance with the statute if it were to discharge an employee because she expressed dislike for a particular candidate, or simply because it suspects that the employee favors a particular political philosophy.

The statute does not define “campaigning,” and there are no reported court decisions interpreting that word in this context. For this reason, it is uncertain whether a court would say that the statute would protect an employee who has a political bumper sticker on her car. The employee’s rights would depend in part on whether the display of a bumper sticker is considered “campaigning,” as opposed to simple expression. If the bumper sticker favors a party or a cause instead of a particular candidate, the statute would almost definitely not apply, since the only kind of campaigning that is protected is “campaigning for a candidate for public office.” For the same reason, a bumper sticker that opposes a candidate would also not appear to constitute “campaigning” within the meaning of the statute. Only a bumper sticker that favors a particular candidate would clearly invoke the statute’s protection.

The question would also arise whether driving a car with a political bumper sticker is conduct “off of the employer’s premises.” If the employer owns the parking lot where the bumper sticker is displayed, the statute arguably would not apply. Only conduct that takes place off of the employer’s premises, outside of work time, is protected by the statute.

The “political activities” clause is not the only provision of Section 201-d that can be used by someone who claims to be a victim of political discrimination. The statute also prohibits discrimination on the basis of what an employee chooses to read or watch in her leisure time. Thus, an employer may not treat an employee adversely because she reads the Daily Worker instead of the Wall Street Journal, or because she watches Norma Rae instead of Sleeping Beauty.

An exception to the statute permits employers to take action against employees when their political activities create “a material conflict of interest related to the employer’s . . . business interest.” Thus, a newspaper should be able to prohibit a journalist that it employs from campaigning for or against a candidate she covers, in order to protect the newspaper’s business interest in appearing impartial. Using the same exception, an employer that sells goods or services to government agencies may be able to argue that it is permitted to discharge an employee who is running as a candidate against the head of that agency, or who is campaigning for such a candidate.

Even when the law would otherwise apply, Section 201-d of the New York Labor Law permits employers to restrict the outside paid political activities of employees who are contractually bound to devote their “entire compensated working hours” to the employer, as long as the employee is paid at least $50,000 in 1992 dollars (approximately $76,000 in 2009 dollars). Similarly, an employer may enforce a contractual restriction on the outside activities of an employee who has a professional services contract because of the “unique nature of the services provided.” For example, a celebrity who is engaged by a movie studio may be restricted from running for office or campaigning for a candidate, if the contract contemplates that such activities may diminish the celebrity’s marketability.


New York Human Rights Law

The New York Human Rights Law, the state statute that prohibits most forms of unlawful employment discrimination, could perhaps be interpreted to cover political discrimination, but the courts have so far rejected such an argument.

Like most states, and like the federal government in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, New York does not include “political views” or “political activities” in its list of categories protected by discrimination laws. However, the New York statute does prohibit discrimination on the basis of “creed.” Although the “creed” clause is most commonly invoked to prohibit discrimination on the basis of religion, the word has a sufficiently broad dictionary definition to include political beliefs as well.

To date, the courts have insisted on restricting the word “creed” to religious beliefs, not political ones. The only reported court case to squarely face the issue is Keady v. Nike, Inc. Keady was an employee of St. John’s University who claimed he was forced to resign from his employment because he protested the University’s decision to accept endorsement money from Nike in light of its labor practices in Third World countries. The court held that the employee could not sue under the Human Rights Law, because that law does not protect employees on the basis of their “ethical or sociopolitical views.” The court, however, failed to give convincing support for its holding. The only authority it cited other than the statute itself is a federal appeals court decision called Avins v. Mangum. But Avins merely noted that the State Commission for Human Rights declined jurisdiction over a claim of political discrimination. The Avins court did not rule on whether the State Commission was correct to decline jurisdiction, and it made no holding on the scope of the “creed” clause. Thus, there is still no reasoned decision that convincingly limits the “creed” clause to religious, as opposed to political, discrimination.

Perhaps the best argument against extending the Human Rights Law’s “creed” clause is the Legislature’s passage of Labor Law §201-d, discussed above. If the Legislature had believed that political discrimination was already prohibited by the Human Rights Law, it would have had no need to prohibit “political activities” discrimination in the new statute.

_____________________________



(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 10:24:14 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Damm Arpig ...if you want to know what bizarre is imagine growing up in New York...and finding yourself in bumfuck North Carolina at my age....these people are downright fucking wierd....lol.



It can't be worse than the NJ Pinelands. These people are a fuckin hoot. They'll piss on a tree like a fucking dog, right in a public area. And they spit on the sidewalk, smoke a cigarette then pitch the butt right out onto their own lawns.
Marie did you somehow miss my stating I was from New York...as far as we are concerned everything in Jersey is just fucked up....hell most of us wouldn't be caught dead over there except they have our football teams....lol.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/25/2010 10:31:26 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Marie did you somehow miss my stating I was from New York...as far as we are concerned everything in Jersey is just fucked up....hell most of us wouldn't be caught dead over there except they have our football teams....lol.


Oh god, if you're one of those upstate NY bumpkins....hell, we got nothing on you freaky bastards.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 3:47:33 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Well she's right, for all the similarities between us, there are some huge differences, and those differences often make you guys seem totally bizarre to us.


You guys too, eh?

I have spent some time up north and I can deal with the unbearable cold better than I can deal with the unbearable politeness.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 3:54:16 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Marie did you somehow miss my stating I was from New York...as far as we are concerned everything in Jersey is just fucked up....hell most of us wouldn't be caught dead over there except they have our football teams....lol.


I believe the correct spelling is Joisey.

Just ask any Joisey resident.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 7/26/2010 3:55:03 AM >

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 6:23:47 AM   
cloudboy


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The US is being lowered into a morass of fewer middle class jobs offered by the private sector altogether. Its hard to get to, you're fired when 15 Million workers never get to hear you're hired.

Arguably Afghanistan brought down the USSR; looks like the US might be next with sprinklings of IRAQ mixed in as well.

I wonder how many US soldiers who have served in IRAQ or Afghanistan feel they have served the country? How many of them would even be in the military if college were more affordable or if other decent jobs with benefits were available?

In the USSR everyone stopped caring about civil rights when the economy collapsed. Similar attitudes are now visible here -- many of them usually directed at illegal immigrants.

"My life sucks," is often accompanied by an attitude of, "O, but at least I can kick this helpless fuckwit in the nuts...."

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 6:27:30 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Arguably Afghanistan brought down the USSR...


Arguably is right.

Every good conservative American knows Uncle Ronnie brought down the USSR.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 7:34:34 AM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Well she's right, for all the similarities between us, there are some huge differences, and those differences often make you guys seem totally bizarre to us.


Yeah, we are bizarre, it's the lack of constantly freezing weather that makes us so much more cheerful than you guys..


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 7:35:42 AM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Damm Arpig ...if you want to know what bizarre is imagine growing up in New York...and finding yourself in bumfuck North Carolina at my age....these people are downright fucking wierd....lol.


Southerners you mean? I'm from NYC and I'm moving to southern Illinois myself- I hope to god the people are 'weird' to me. New Yorkers are douches.


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 8:02:20 AM   
realwhiteknight


Posts: 428
Joined: 7/13/2010
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quote:

...as far as we are concerned everything in Jersey is just fucked up....hell most of us wouldn't be caught dead over there except they have our football teams....lol.


New Jersey is the state you go through to get somewhere else.

Although, Atlantic City is sort of fun. Mostly because it's easy to forget you're in Jersey.

< Message edited by realwhiteknight -- 7/26/2010 8:03:10 AM >


_____________________________

I carry a log - yes. Is it funny to you? It is not to me.

Behind all things are reasons. Reasons can even explain the absurd. Do we have the time to learn the reasons behind the human being's varied behavior? I think not. Some take the time.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: You're Fired!!! - 7/26/2010 8:26:31 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Marie did you somehow miss my stating I was from New York...as far as we are concerned everything in Jersey is just fucked up....hell most of us wouldn't be caught dead over there except they have our football teams....lol.


Oh god, if you're one of those upstate NY bumpkins....hell, we got nothing on you freaky bastards.

Nope...I'm a true New  Yorker(defined as someone from any of the five boroughs)....if you're from anywhere else in the state....and lay claim to being a New Yorker you're simply a hick flying under false colors !

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 120
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