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RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 5:39:15 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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Too many people are putting the guns under the couch without trigger guards where children can get them... Inexperienced men and women are using guns that can penetrate walls and kill miles away... We just had a case in my home town where a lifeguard at the local pool was hit with a wild round.

Butch

PS... the same pool my 4 year old grandson often swims at with my daughter.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/28/2010 5:41:07 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 61

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 5:47:04 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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HERE is the story...

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 62

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 7:37:36 PM

zenny

Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
penetrate walls and kill miles away

No, they're not. Effective range of off the shelf hunting rounds is less than 500yards. If it has to penetrate a wall at that distance.. well.. lets just say it won't do anything else. If you're referencing an instance where a supposed 7.62mm round (said to be from an ak-47[HA!]) killed a kid in church 'from miles away'.. well.. if you believe that I advise taking a non-basic physics class. Take particular note of what the velocity of projectiles as they lose energy and then look into deflection as projectiles move through barriers.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 63

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 9:03:04 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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"She was a bright girl and that job was paying her college tab. But common sense was not her strong point. There are some who just shouldn't have things like a gun"

I can accept that, but let me remind you of what being an adult means.

It means that I have to know if I am unable to use it properly. If I drunk whiskey, that would be a good time to rip me off because I will be very reluctant to bring a loaded firearm from it's safe place. Similarly I am expected to know if I am too drunk to drive a car, or if my eyesight is not good enough or damn near anything else. Also, if put in the seat of a bulldozer and I have no idea how to run it I am required to know not to operate the levers indiscriminately, busting people's skulls in half with it. You put me on a sailboat I know I have no idea how to pilot it, it is my responsibility as an adult to know that.

On an airplane, I might do a bit better and if there is noone else to do it I would try in the event of the pilot dropping out or something. I know what the ailerons are and all that, and how to use them. If anyone on the plane had ever flown I would defer it to them, but if there was noone available I would at least try. But then I am not going out to rent a plane tomorrow, just to have fun. That's what cars were for.

I need to know my limitations, if my eyesight gets alot worse I will not use a firearm because I might hurt the wrong person. Also if there are to be kids around, the iron will not be in their hands.

It is called being responsible and I am fully aware that there are many who are incapable. At the same time I don't want to see anyone's rights taken away.

This might impossible but I can say this much for sure - it is not my fault.

T

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Post #: 64

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 9:40:35 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
penetrate walls and kill miles away

No, they're not. Effective range of off the shelf hunting rounds is less than 500yards. If it has to penetrate a wall at that distance.. well.. lets just say it won't do anything else. If you're referencing an instance where a supposed 7.62mm round (said to be from an ak-47[HA!]) killed a kid in church 'from miles away'.. well.. if you believe that I advise taking a non-basic physics class. Take particular note of what the velocity of projectiles as they lose energy and then look into deflection as projectiles move through barriers.

Here in St Louis we have had people killed in their homes from bullets penetrating their walls... we had an 8 year old killed when walking behind a tree that was used for target practice. The round penetrated the target...tree and killed him...and a group of teens were target practicing and their rounds went over a mile and killed a lady walking her dog... and this was in the last few years...We have had several children killed playing with guns their families left within their reach...on and on

If it happens here it happens elsewhere.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/28/2010 10:02:27 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to zenny)

Post #: 65

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 10:13:05 PM

zenny

Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
penetrate walls and kill miles away

No, they're not. Effective range of off the shelf hunting rounds is less than 500yards. If it has to penetrate a wall at that distance.. well.. lets just say it won't do anything else. If you're referencing an instance where a supposed 7.62mm round (said to be from an ak-47[HA!]) killed a kid in church 'from miles away'.. well.. if you believe that I advise taking a non-basic physics class. Take particular note of what the velocity of projectiles as they lose energy and then look into deflection as projectiles move through barriers.

You are wrong... here in St Louis we have had people killed in their homes from bullets penetrating their walls... we had an 8 year old killed when walking behind a tree that was used for target practice. The round penetrated the target...tree and killed him...and a group of teens were target practicing and their rounds went over a mile and killed a lady walking her dog... and this was in the last few years... If it happens here it happens elsewhere.

Butch

Are you trying to imply it penetrated the a tree? No, it wouldn't penetrate a tree. Perhaps a sapling or bush, but not a tree. The over a mile can happen. It's like that single instance of a planing dropping some piss, it falling through the sky and freezing into a lance and killing a woman in a park. After penetrating their walls, sure, but not after it went a few hundred yards or through more than two walls as you said earlier.

Regardless, you're bringing up single instances to justify your viewpoint. You may have one or two of those a year. In the entire US. Even if there are more guess what I have; I have every rape and murder case in which the victim didn't have a gun or means to defend them self and I can guarantee that's a much large number; by orders of magnitude. Where is your bleeding heart for them?

'nuts with guns up'.. Please, step back and listen to yourself.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 66

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/28/2010 10:13:38 PM

interlocutor

Posts: 68
Joined: 3/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
HERE is the story...
Butch

I guess you could say she was "shot" but she was taken to the hospital with "minor injuries" The .22 cal bullet bounced off her leg. You make it sound as if this was an accidental death.

But I wonder if you realize that you are arguing that is is better to have CRIME than ACCIDENTS; that is it better to let people intentionally prey on the weak than take a risk that some one might accidently get hurt.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 67

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 3:42:45 AM

splorff

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Joined: 2/23/2008
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Good point Butch, gun ownership must be accompanied by all the neccesary info: Use, safety etc.

There is something I would like to know. I dont think its possible for Americans to buy assault rifles. Why is this ? I am guessing that they are potent weapons, but why so especially ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

KD I am in a forum where an American guy posted about a town in his state. The mayor ruled that every home owner had to own a gun. Those with criminal records or mental health issues were excluded.

The results do not support your views. Burglaries went down significantly, if I recall correctly it was a decrease of perhaps 40% Other decreases followed, for as you know burglary is sometimes accompanied by rape, beating, torture and homicide.

You miss my point...it is not that crime will not go down...but it is that accidental gun deaths and injuries go up when there are more guns available to people that are not experienced with them and their dangers. The problem is that many states don't require comprehensive gun safety courses when issuing permits...They let any dumb ass have one and the kids often get hurt...more often than they save someone from a crime.

Butch

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 68

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 3:46:48 AM

splorff

Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
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Thanks Firm, yep, thats the place alright. It was Kennesaw GA. Can I move there please ?

Here we see, that when the consequences of crime are clearly revealed to criminals they desist. More likely, they move to another place, where liberals hold sway, for there of course, they will be safer with less chance of becoming casualties themselves, as they persue their vile trade.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

KD I am in a forum where an American guy posted about a town in his state. The mayor ruled that every home owner had to own a gun. Those with criminal records or mental health issues were excluded.

The results do not support your views. Burglaries went down significantly, if I recall correctly it was a decrease of perhaps 40% Other decreases followed, for as you know burglary is sometimes accompanied by rape, beating, torture and homicide.

Kennesaw Georgia, by chance?

Crime Plunges in Pro-gun Town

Kennesaw, Ga., a northern suburb of Atlanta, passed an ordinance requiring heads of households "to maintain a firearm" and ammunition "to provide for the civil defense" and "protect the general welfare of the City and its inhabitants."

...

Kennesaw's crime rate plummeted. In fact, the number of some crimes declined amid soaring population growth. For example, in figures the city provided to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, Kennesaw had 54 burglaries in 1981 – the year before the gun ordinance – with a population of 5,242. In 1999, with a population of 19,000, only 36 burglaries were reported.

The rate of violent crime is approximately four times lower than the state and national rates, Kennesaw's Crime Statistics Report said. "Violent crime is almost nonexistent in residential neighborhoods," Graydon told UPI. The detective, who has been with the police department since 1986, said the isolated exceptions take place in motels or in commercial areas.

Firm

< Message edited by splorff -- 7/29/2010 3:56:05 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 69

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 4:04:26 AM

splorff

Posts: 386
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

Immediate protection is not something the law and those who enforce it can provide, it is your responsibility.

Well said zenny.

I think the British state has become criminal. For we are forbidden the opportunity to protect ourselves, families, friends and possessions.

We can use an equal measure of violence, but this is meaningless blather. How may I use same, when the thug has a gun and I do not ? Fuck the state.

< Message edited by splorff -- 7/29/2010 4:05:21 AM >

(in reply to zenny)

Post #: 70

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 4:09:08 AM

splorff

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Joined: 2/23/2008
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This just underlines the point being made. Had the victims been armed, they would have had a chance to remain alive. Their wives may not have become widows, and their children may have had happy childhoods.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Is THIS the same place? Wonderful job of reducing crime

Butch

< Message edited by splorff -- 7/29/2010 4:13:51 AM >

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 71

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 4:19:29 AM

splorff

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Joined: 2/23/2008
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He was criminally inclined long before the mayors ruling. Thats my belief.

The best solution of course is to get guns out of the hands of criminals and fanatics. But how realistic is this, and if we could, wold they not just pick up knives, or bricks or cudgels?

The problem is armed criminals, and not armed citizens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You see my point is that there are always two sides to a story... yes burglaries down but nuts with guns up...see what I mean. There is a lot to consider with these laws.

Butch

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 72

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 4:20:54 AM

splorff

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Joined: 2/23/2008
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Agreed Butch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I forgot to add... I am NOT against the ownership of guns... not at all... Just I believe we should have strict rules and regulations governing the training and use of said weapons... better screening of applicants as well.

Butch

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 73

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 4:23:13 AM

splorff

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Joined: 2/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Too many people are putting the guns under the couch without trigger guards where children can get them..

These fools need their guns removing. They are a danger to everyone near them.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 74

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 7:17:07 AM

Aynne88

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Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lisub4one

Aynne - the S&W you chose would appear to be an excellent weapon for competition, hunting (within reason) and exposed carry afield, but likely not the best candidate for concelled carry and quick deployment. Would recommend considering a Springfield XD, SIG, or Glock (my personal preferences) in .40 S&W (9mm Luger if recoil is an issue) as alternatives if you don't already own something along these lines.

And as with any tool or piece of equipment in which we entrust our life or well being, become intimately familiar with the operation, care, and feeding of the unit, and practice as often as you can and in as realistic a manner as you can to mimic the situations where you envision real life use.

Hi lisub, I have owned guns for 25 years.

. My nickname with my Dad and uncles is "Annie Oakley" but I appreciate that you don't know me, and wouldn't know that I was hunting rabbits in 6th grade or bagged my first buck at 15. I also have several pistols that would suffice for conceal carry, this is just one more to add to the arsenal.

I do agree, don't get more gun that you can handle. Fortunately, there aren't many of those that apply to me.

Now, who wants venison?

.

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
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Post #: 75

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 8:26:28 AM

lisub4one

Posts: 94
Joined: 6/9/2006
Status: offline

Aynne,

you definitely sound like my kind of firearms owner, and my apologies if my words carried any insult. I've been shooting competitively and hunting for over 35 years, and do appreciate the ongoing desire to make additions to the gun safe, even if they may be a bit superfluous given what is already in there.

No room in the freezer at the moment for more venison. The T/C and I had a very good season last fall keeping the tradition of one shot one kill going.

(in reply to Aynne88)

Post #: 76

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 8:34:26 AM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Zenny you are not reading my posts closely... I did not say two walls although it could easily happen... What is a little plaster or wall board...think.

All of my examples happened in my county St Louis all in the last few years... These are very common not single instances to justify a viewpoint... Just run a search in your own area instead of talking out your ass.

Then after you do go back and carefully read my posts this time... I am not against gun ownership...I have no sympathy for criminals shot committing crimes. But I am not for free and easy access to weapons without the proper training or screening.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to zenny)

Post #: 77

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 9:02:15 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: interlocutor

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
HERE is the story...
Butch

I guess you could say she was "shot" but she was taken to the hospital with "minor injuries" The .22 cal bullet bounced off her leg. You make it sound as if this was an accidental death.

But I wonder if you realize that you are arguing that is is better to have CRIME than ACCIDENTS; that is it better to let people intentionally prey on the weak than take a risk that some one might accidently get hurt.

Nope I want someone like me with training in firearms, with a deadly weapon, then someone that is more likely to kill themselves and others than the criminal...Is that too much to ask?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to interlocutor)

Post #: 78

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 9:05:53 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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How about THIS...or THIS...or THIS... or THIS...or THIS...or THIS...or THIS...I could go on and on...how are these for isolated incidents to make a point.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/29/2010 9:11:13 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to zenny)

Post #: 79

RE: My kind of gun control - 7/29/2010 9:34:04 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: splorff

This just underlines the point being made. Had the victims been armed, they would have had a chance to remain alive. Their wives may not have become widows, and their children may have had happy childhoods.

And mine that if he were properly screened and gun controls were much tighter they may ALL still be alive.

Two sides to everything.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to splorff)

Post #: 80

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