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A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 6:24:38 PM   
shelbylea


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/30/2006
Status: offline 		What is the worth of a Master if the Master stops BDSM and only wants Vanilla?
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 6:29:29 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shelbylea

What is the worth of a Master if the Master stops BDSM and only wants Vanilla?


If he's not a Master, then he has no value as a Master.. but he might be priceless as a man.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 6:45:23 PM   
puella


Posts: 2457
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I don't know that I totally agree with you Celeste.

I am of the firm belief that a flogger, as much as a title, does not make you a Master. 

What do you mean by giving up BDSM, shelbylea?  He isn't going to spank you anymore?  He wont scene? He wont actively enforce very specific gender and power roles?

How many times have we hashed over on this forum that BDSM is not about (or only about) sex. Nor is it only about scening, nor is it only about verbal commands to enforce station.


Just as much as a truism as "Submissive is not something I do, it is something I am" holds true for me, I would think the opposite would be true for a Dominant... If not, then is he really a Dominant or is he just having a good time playing and fucking naughtily?

However, if it is true, then I should think that even if he chooses not to actively pursue the trappings of a BDSM alternative lifestyle, that he will most likely still be very much the same man to whom you now kneel, upon command.

I know that as one who is not actively pursuing anything inside the realms of BDSM right now.. my being submissive is still a truism for me, and people who are wholly vanilla, can feel that from me and respond to it, even without me consciously and actively 'trying' or acting upon it.

I would surmise that he may no longer wish to be called Master.. but watch that man.  I bet you will feel no less his slave without the title and cuffs than you did with all the trappings the 'lifestyle' can afford you. ,

< Message edited by puella -- 4/18/2006 6:53:30 PM >

(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 6:47:03 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: shelbylea

What is the worth of a Master if the Master stops BDSM and only wants Vanilla?


If he's not a Master, then he has no value as a Master.. but he might be priceless as a man.

Celeste

\
Excellent reply! 

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:02:32 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		what do you mean by BDSM... is this also including the aspects of D/s or M/s Power structured relationships.  Alot of these relationship can exists without any BDSM activities  -- meaning all the kinky play people can do.

For me ... a Top engages in BDSM play

For me... A Master/Dominant engages in Power structure in the relationship.

they are seperate aspects that often coexist, but not required to coexist!

So... a Master/Mistress for the right slave is always Priceless!  regardless if he/she engages in BDSM or not.

I would add... that I consider my slaves priceless as well.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:09:42 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		It's possible I misunderstood the OP, but the use of the word 'vanilla' means something pretty specific to me. It means no power structure, no authority structure, no BDSM, D/s, M/s.  I guess I just can't wrap my brain around "Master" and being vanilla.

Celeste 

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:14:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Everyone knows the value of a man is how many women he can find to want him and his sperm.

*ducks*

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:21:59 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		I can understand... but, it depends on what the person's term of BDSM entails... What is in the definition so to speak.  Because of my relationships and play partners... BDSM has a very narrowly defined meaning... and just because there is  NO BDSM it would not equate to being a Vanilla relationship.  However, if ones definition includes Power structures etc.... then I can appreciate that it could equate to a "Vanilla" arrangement.  It's been my experience that to often individuals equate BDSM play as demonstration of a Master/Dominant qualities, which I don't agree with.  It all depends on what a person puts into the definition of BDSM... it suspect you would change you answer if her definition is more akin to mine than yours.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:23:56 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		You're right. I wouldn't call that vanilla, I'd call it alternative. Guess we'll have to wait until she posts again to find out some detail. I might very well change my answer.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:29:06 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Maybe he is just the ultimate sadist...

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 7:50:30 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Maybe he is just the ultimate sadist...


Nooooooo.. that's my mother.



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 8:48:26 PM   
mathiasdomm


Posts: 71
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		Celeste, I had that same idea.  :-p 

Actually, I've been thinking about this a lot lately.  Do M/s couples have vanilla sex?  And by vanilla, I mean no kink, no toys, not even mental bondage. Straight up boring sex.  The kind of sex you imagine the neighbors with the Volvo and matching track suits have.

Is it common?  Is it even possible, given that one person is an acknowledged submissive?  Doesn't that concept negate the idea?   Or are we by definition a people who will inevitably make things fun, interesting, and even a little odd.  Are we capable of vanilla?  Like I said, I've been thinking about this.  Somebody give me some feedback.

Edit:  Because this is a big and rather different question, I'm putting it in its own thread.


< Message edited by mathiasdomm -- 4/18/2006 8:50:13 PM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 8:51:06 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		We absolutely engage in missionary position sex.. but, the blood left on the sheets from the scratches and bites might not be 'exactly' vanilla to the untrained eye. ::chuckles::

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to mathiasdomm)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 9:09:49 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Maybe he is just the ultimate sadist...


Nooooooo.. that's my mother.




LMAO

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/18/2006 11:54:50 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shelbylea

What is the worth of a Master if the Master stops BDSM and only wants Vanilla?


A big fat ZERO from a BDSM Perspective but as a Vanila Master, and yes there are many of those, his value is high....


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/19/2006 1:06:19 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Now I see BDSM and D/s as not totaly joined at the hip so it depends what you mean by 'vanilla'. If he is still acting as Master jjust choosing not to 'play' in a BDSM sense then I wouldn't see much has changed. If he is no longer being a Master then he isn't one, it isn't a case of his value as one, it has gone, departed, is no more. But what of his value as a man, as a friend.... value is such a subjective thing.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/19/2006 1:20:25 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: shelbylea

What is the worth of a Master if the Master stops BDSM and only wants Vanilla?


A big fat ZERO from a BDSM Perspective but as a Vanila Master, and yes there are many of those, his value is high....



Ok, I need to be educated on this because I have never heard of a Vanilla Master. Can you expound on this one, IB, please?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/19/2006 1:41:59 AM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Becomming a Master at anything means that
regardless if You choose to practice such Or not
You still are a Master. The Masters worth is still the
same as it was. And a Masters worth is worth My life
in any choosen practice.

(in reply to shelbylea)
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RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/19/2006 2:17:32 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

Becomming a Master at anything means that
regardless if You choose to practice such Or not
You still are a Master. The Masters worth is still the
same as it was. And a Masters worth is worth My life
in any choosen practice.


I would have to disagree with you there Dread,

What worth is a master soldier who is too cowardly to fight when his country needs him?
What worth a master surgeon who looses the nerve to operate?
What worth the master sculptor who looses his muse and refuses to carve?

Respect for past achievements certainly, but current worth as whatever it is they have turned their back on? To me being a Man is not something I can set asside, if I could then it would have little value when I decided to follow it through, the same with being a Master. I can't decide not to be me just because things may get difficult, not without lessening the whole value.

That is not the same as saying the person is worthless, the soldier maybe a master poet and have great value as that, but his value as a soldier is gone. The surgeon may have great value as a partner and father but his value to those who relied on him to make them well? The sculptor may find another muse that leads him to be a great politician, but any worth as a sculptor is lost till he again steps up and acts as a sculptor.

Actions speak louder than words and a Mans actions are what his value should be judged by.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A Masters Worth? - 4/19/2006 2:21:22 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

Becomming a Master at anything means that
regardless if You choose to practice such Or not
You still are a Master. The Masters worth is still the
same as it was. And a Masters worth is worth My life
in any choosen practice.

**I really liked your phrasing, if it was meant to be a: "Cut to the chase" and let's get down-to-the-nitty-gritty, surrounds-most-circumstances-and professions-or practices/actions- kind of answer, Mistress Dread (which I am intuiting it already was). I remember reading Mistress Dread's writings from when I was here at CM last December. I did take it as a general complement to Masters. I liked it. I thought it was poetic and implies total devotion, and that whether the Master had earned total devotion was already a 'given'.
(I'm going with my own intuition as far as interpreting of course).

- SusanofO 


< Message edited by SusanofO -- 4/19/2006 2:42:30 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
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