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F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 4:44:27 PM   
AAkasha


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I am reading "Talking to Girls about Duran Duran" right now, and having all sorts of surreal flashbacks to my youth.  I was a teenager in the mid 80s, so my whole view of "men" "boys" and "crushes" evolved around a dance/pop music scene where men wore makeup, skirts, were labeled "fags" by insecure homophobes and left parents shaking their heads.  Some of my most memorable first kisses were on male lips who were wearing lipstick or lipgloss.

Essentially, my crushes on men and my teenage fantasy was ALL centered around men who were essentially androgynous, wore make up, were feminine and even dressed in girls' closed.    That "Scene" for me evolved right into some goth music influences (more men in makeup, now add more black clothes, fishnets and skirts) and eventually into goth/industrial (a little less makeup, but still a lot of eyeliner, add in combat boots, metal/chains on leather bracelets, dog collars).  All of this absolutely shaped my ideals for male sexuality and what turns me on about men.

But what is most telling in "the mix" there is that I'd try to "make" my non-conformist boyfriends conform; I wanted guys who wore eyeliner, even if they didn't. I wanted men in fishnets, even if they said 'oh my god if anyone but YOU saw me in this I would die. PUT DOWN THE CAMERA!'  I wanted my men to have feminine features, even if they didn't have them naturally.  In the playful "conversion" process, there was much protesting, resistance, forced kisses, light bondage, whatever.  Wear my panties, put on these fishnets, here's some eyeliner, try this lipstick...all of that while blasting Joy Division or Echo & the Bunnymen, holding hands at "Sixteen Candles" at the movies, whatever.  By the time I got into college, making men into girls was part of my M.O. -- so long as there was a healthy dose of S&M and bondage.  I ended up feeling much, much more at "home" in the goth/industrial "look" (for men) than in the ultra feminine direction that new wave and new romantic went, but I definitely wanted men in eyeliner as a start.

The resistance, the "I will only do this for you," of the guys that went along with it because they liked me, even though it embarrassed them, kind of shaped what became a side fetish for humiliation.  But more importantly, the guys that were totally comfortable and competent and creating their own androgynous look were also appealing. 

When I can recapture any of those dynamics in the context of "feminization," I take to it like a duck to water.  All of this is a far cry from a lot of what is passed around as "forced feminization," though, and I've been trying to figure out exactly why.  It's clear to me that I like pretty men, men in feminine clothes and men in makeup, if they are androgynous and doing it openly to enhance their style (granted, this is rare now, as the 80s would seem it was just a fashion stage); and I also enjoy making a man uncomfortable by slipping into a persona of femininity that feels foreign to him.  Where it starts to fall off for me is when it's too singularly-focused on the part of the man, or is so self indulgent that it overshadows every other aspect of surrender.  But you know what, I feel that way about foot fetishists too, and CBT-enthusiasts, or "any" enthusiast, if it's so self indulgent that my participation becomes secondary.

I would have to think a lot of people in their 40s right now were also shaped, sexually, in the androgynous 80s. I wonder how much of an impact that has on sexual ideals.

Akasha


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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 5:08:01 PM   
LadyPact


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We're about the same age range.  I personally still don't have an affinity for feminazation of any kind.  It's always been a turn off for Me.  I suppose while you were interested in the Duran Duran or Flock of Seagulls types, I was still with the rugged guys in a good ole fashioned pair of tight jeans, stylish shirt, and wasn't worried about having 'the look' that was popular on MTV.

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 6:01:59 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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I realize you might have addressed this to those who grew up in the Eighties. And I did not.

But I thought I would share:

In that decade, I was a high flying, well travelled man who “dressed for success”.

You know … the blue or gray suit … pinstrips or no pinstrips … and the proverbial white shirt with some variation of a red tie.

A hotshot .. with a ticket to ride, wherever in this country … the Firm needed me.

But I will say, when work ended, and I went to a bar or restaurant …

Women would fall … all over me!

So I am thinking … this taste You express … is quite restricted …

Women above high school in that decade … “went crazy for a sharp dressed man”!

Thanks ZZ Top … for the reference! ;-)

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 6:18:35 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I would have to think a lot of people in their 40s right now were also shaped, sexually, in the androgynous 80s. I wonder how much of an impact that has on sexual ideals.



I'm under forty and was a young girl during that craze but I loved my pop and heavy metal. I'll be the first to admit that ruggedly handsome men do nothing for me and I'll take his metrosexual brother any day. However, feminization has never held a big draw for me. While I can find some appeal it was never my shtick so to speak. I still relish a man's masculinity and his maleness in its natural state. I don't believe those early icons influenced anything for me save my great taste in music.

~porcelaine


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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 7:55:46 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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I loves me some hair bands, but I am a child of the 70's and have zero urge to feminize. That doesn't mean that I didn't dig the guys in eyeliner, but they were GUYS. Skeery: Pete Burns from Dead or Alive. Guy? Oh yeah.

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 8:18:47 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I loves me some hair bands, but I am a child of the 70's and have zero urge to feminize. That doesn't mean that I didn't dig the guys in eyeliner, but they were GUYS. Skeery: Pete Burns from Dead or Alive. Guy? Oh yeah.


What's not to love? Not all the men looked like Pete Burns....






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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 8:29:50 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Did I mention that my personal goal is to fuck Henry Rollins?

Punk Rock Hib

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 8:45:53 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

my personal goal is to fuck Henry Rollins

Punk Rock Hib



????????? Just one goal? ????????????

I would think ... the list could be expanded ...

After all, Peon might be quite upset to learn you didn't list him!



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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 8:46:58 PM   
Tantriqu


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Before my hormones hit and I became me in the 80's, I could never understand what girls saw then, as now, in the milquetoast New Kids on the Block/Justin Bieber types. As the Simpsons; 'Non-threatening Boys Magazine' covers?: blargh.
I loved and love the Doobie Brothers, Bruce Cockburn, Peter Gabriel: guys with musicianship and baritones, rather than androgynous good looks or falsettos. The Edge, not Bowie, although I was certainly in the minority.
And Lady H., *I* called dibs on Hank in 1995. I might have to get a strap-on with a tattoo pattern on it. . .

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 9:11:18 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

I loved and love ....... not Bowie ......



Ya know, I thought similar things about Bowie, too.

Then I saw the movie, “Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence”.

From that time on, I have thought Bowie was one of the most talented of all artists …

Isn’t it funny … how a single portrayal ... can impact one’s opinion?



And this is relevant ... because prior to that movie, I would have said ... oh just another little boy ... like Henry Rollins

Oh ... and i am a flying pig ... too!

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 10:32:09 PM   
BonesFromAsh


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I was always fascinated with John Taylor's hair and his sleepy eyes.

Simon LeBon had a bit of a whiney voice but I still went to 2 of their concerts.

Then I discovered The Cure, Nine Inch Nails and later came Tool...things just took a dark/creepy/industrial/goth/hard turn.

Yeah, that androgynous look with an edge can be hot...not in a totally feminine way but more a mix of wirey muscles, black-rimmed soul-less eyes just begging to be "understood" and the underlying question of sexuality. It was (and still is at times) a heady mix, especially for a young woman looking for more than the farmboys and football stars I was trying to get away from. I still get a tingle when I see one of those dark "Crow Boys"....ohhhhh.

Did that have any effect on my sexual ideals? Sure, it left it's mark...but so have a lot of other looks. Thanks to Jack Johnson I've rediscovered my love for surfer dudes!

What really turns me on is a man who's comfortable in his skin...doesn't matter if he's wearing eyeliner or board shorts as long as he's being true to himself.

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 10:53:54 PM   
Voodali


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Funny you should mention Duran Duran.
This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIT2QobohEg, though cryptic and subtle, definitely planted a seed in my 13 year old brain, and was my inspirational music as I penned tome after tome of dreadful adolescent  BDSM (though I didn't realize it at the time) erotica.
I don't know whether or not its because of this 80's corruption of masculinity, but it seems that the only kind of masculine beauty that can move me is slightly feminine.


< Message edited by Voodali -- 8/5/2010 11:04:59 PM >

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/5/2010 11:52:47 PM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voodali

Funny you should mention Duran Duran.
This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIT2QobohEg, though cryptic and subtle, definitely planted a seed in my 13 year old brain, and was my inspirational music as I penned tome after tome of dreadful adolescent  BDSM (though I didn't realize it at the time) erotica.
I don't know whether or not its because of this 80's corruption of masculinity, but it seems that the only kind of masculine beauty that can move me is slightly feminine.



Ah yes, a good one.

And who could forget Adam & the Ants, "Prince Charming"?

He was another man in heavy makeup that I found incredibly strong, erotic, self confident in his image:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1zcLM1Iqw

I mean look at him at 1:45 - Hell, even I don't wear that much eye makeup..

Akasha


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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/6/2010 8:00:43 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I am thinking there is plenty of Hank to go around!!

New York Dolls. All those glam rockers, Bowie in the Aladdin Sane phase, they paved the way for the New Wave.

Richard Butler from the Furs. OH man.

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RE: F/fem, fetishes and being impressionable - 8/6/2010 7:23:21 PM   
Tantriqu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am thinking there is plenty of Hank to go around!!




Lol, whew!

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