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Lordandmaster -> RE: Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions (8/10/2010 1:16:59 PM)
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You said it's not OUR job to check their papers when you hire them. (Go check what you wrote.) How am I supposed to know your work history? If you say it's not OUR job, I assume that means YOU are doing the hiring. Maybe you could have said it's not THEIR job, but I still would have disagreed.
Anyway, there's a more important point: All you're really saying is that we need regulation. This is a perfect example of why markets don't regulate themselves, despite all propaganda to the contrary. When one company is able to cut costs by doing something socially destructive, it's not long before ALL companies in that industry are cutting costs by doing the same socially destructive thing, and it doesn't stop until and unless there is regulation adding real costs to change companies' decision-making mechanisms. But before that happens, the companies spend billions hiring lobbying firms trying to influence our political process and motivating useful idiots to shout that the regulation is un-American.
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ORIGINAL: RayvenGoddess
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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster
Why is that not your job? If someone presents false ID at a bar, can the bar pretend that it's "not their job" to make sure the ID is genuine? You (or your company, whatever) say that it's "not your job" so that you can keep earning a profit and passing the social costs of your enterprise onto the rest of the nation. And you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
This is the crux of the problem. It's not going to be solved by throwing illegals in jail, chasing them with dogs, or allocating $600 billion to border security. It will be solved (if anyone wants to solve it) by holding employers accountable for employing illegals.
What do I have to be ashamed of? I actually currently have a government job myself with the USDA, and am not working in the privet sector except as a consultant for friends. I have nothing to be ashamed of, and even when I did work in the privet sector I didn't do the hiring. I did the working. Just because I know how these things are done doesn't mean I ever DID them. I know how cocaine is made, doesn't mean I ever made it. Is that horse a little high for you? Maybe you should come down before you get a nose bleed.
It's not the employer's job to investigate beyond the legal standard. The US government makes the hiring guidelines, the workers come to us with illegally obtained real documents or well-made fake ones with real information on them of another person, and that satisfies the requirements. If the employers investigated each laborer fully to figure out who they really are it would become a full-time job in itself and no real ag work would ever get done. And by the way? The illegals working the fields or in other areas of ag are not the majority, legal people are, so spending all that time and money to be the brown-noser tattle-tail kid in class isn't worth the effort.
It's the job of a bar tender to ask for an ID. If it looks real enough that it fools the bar tender, it's the kid breaking the law, not the bar tender for not being able to see that it's fake.
You are right that things will not change until the people who hire illegals change. I agree with you there, and that things need to change. But they need incentive, because this country is all about instant gratification and personal satisfaction so none of them are thinking about the future of society. They are thinking about keeping a job and paying their mortgage.
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