RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:25:04 AM)


Well okay mnot, since you begged - one more:

quote:


New Jersey's new conservative governor, Chris Christie, has exceeded all expectations. He is taking no prisoners in his battle to cut New Jersey's bloated budget, and he is taking the tough stands necessary on other issues.  This is a man to watch. He should become our model for the types of public servants we need to elect across America in November.  He doesn't back down from his conservative principles. Check out this video of Gov. Christie answering an antagonistic liberal reporter:


But thats it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Perhaps you have some rabid neo-con in mind that stands higher and straighter than dog shit to carry on the good fight?




FatDomDaddy -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:28:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

not a core principle of socialism, so whatever follows that sentence clip is invalid.



yawn




mnottertail -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:33:05 AM)

Yup, now here is the sort of porky lawyer we want to get america back in shape. Why do theneo-con want to force this country to become a socialist if not communist nation?

Christie has been accused by critics of using his office's role in crafting deferred prosecution agreements to award lucrative federal monitoring positions in no-bid contracts to friends, supporters, and allies.[20] Questions first arose after Christie awarded a multimillion dollar, no-bid contract to David Kelley, another former U.S. Attorney, who had investigated Christie's brother, Todd Christie, in a 2005 fraud case involving traders at the Wall Street firm, Spear, Leeds & Kellogg.[21] [22] Kelley had declined to prosecute Todd Christie, who had been ranked fourth in the investigation-initiating U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) complaint among twenty traders who earned the largest profits for their company at the expense of their customers. The top three were indicted, as were eleven other traders.[23]
Christie was similarly criticized for his 2007 recommendation of the appointment of The Ashcroft Group, a consulting firm owned by Christie's former superior, the former United States Attorney General John Ashcroft, as a monitor in a court settlement against Zimmer Holdings, an Indiana medical supplies company. The no-bid contract was worth between $28 million and $52 million.[24]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-24"[25] Christie defended the decision, saying that Ashcroft’s prominence and legal acumen made him a natural choice. Christie declined to intercede when Zimmer's company lawyers protested the Group’s plans to charge a rate of $1.5 million to $2.9 million per month for the monitoring.[20]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-25"[26] Shortly after the House Judiciary Committee began holding hearings on the matter, the Justice Department re-wrote the rules regarding the appointment of court monitors.[27]
Christie also faced criticism over the terms of a $311 million fraud settlement with Bristol-Myers Squibb. Christie’s office deferred criminal prosecution of the pharmaceutical company in a deal that required it to dedicate $5 million for a business ethics chair at Seton Hall University School of Law, Christie's alma mater.[28] [29] The U.S. Justice Department subsequently set guidelines forbidding such requirements as components of out-of-court corporate crime settlements.[30]
In June 2009, Christie was called before the House Judiciary Committee as part of its consideration of new regulations on deferred prosecution agreements. In his testimony, he defended his decisions to award no-bid, high-paying federal monitoring contracts to law firms that his critics say constitute a conflict of interest. Christie left the meeting after two and a half hours of questioning, against the requests of the Committee's chairman, stating that he had to attend to pressing business in New Jersey.[20]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-Christie_agrees_to_testify-30"[31]
[
edit] Claims of partisan attacks


Christie at the swearing-in ceremony of Union City, New Jersey Mayor Brian P. Stack, May 18, 2010.
Christie has been criticized by some Democrats for what they say are attempts to tarnish candidates facing election; they point, for instance, to Christie's well-publicized subpoenaing of Senator Robert Menendez during his contested 2006 campaign, just two months before the election.[32]HYPERLINK \l "cite_note-Prosecutor_Makes_Meal-32"[33] Christie's aides have insisted that they initiated the action in response to an article that appeared in The Record, which reported that while Mr. Menendez was a U.S. Representative he had in 1994 leased his former home to a social service agency that he had helped obtain federal financing.[32] The non-profit group paid Menendez more than $300,000 over nine years to rent the building. Mr. Menendez claims to have cleared the arrangement with the Congressional ethics office, a step that had also been reported previously by New Jersey newspapers.[32] According to Menendez, just prior to signing the rental lease, he cleared it by phone with a lawyer on the staff of the United States House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct. Following the subpoena, the lawyer, who no longer works with the Committee, came forward to say that while she doesn’t recall the conversation, it probably happened—and that if she were advising Menendez now she would tell him, as she apparently did then, that there was nothing improper about the arrangement.[34] As of August 2009, nothing has come from the investigation.[32]
[
edit] Cell phone monitoring and alleged entrapment
In 2005, Christie prosecuted the Hemant Lakhani terrorism case, in which the defendant claimed that he had been entrapped. In that case, Christie's office relied on an informant who had been dismissed by the FBI as unreliable for fabricating claims of terrorist activity. For more than a year, the informant, working with the U.S. attorney's office, solicited Lakhani for access to arms. Lakhani was unable to obtain anything until an undercover agent contacted him and supplied him with a fake missile. In an interview with the public radio program "This American Life,"[19] Christie brushed off suggestions that Lakhani was entrapped by law enforcement. Defending the Lakhani prosecution, Christie set forth the following theory of law enforcement:

Once you find someone who is that basically amoral, then whether or not he was actually able to do it, that debate ... who cares? I mean at the end, who cares? I don't have a crystal ball. And I don't know if this had fallen apart what Hemant Lakhani would have done next. ... I'm just not willing to take that chance. ... There are good people and bad people. Bad people do bad things. Bad people have to be punished. These are simple truths. Bad people must be punished.
In April 2009, Christie came under fire from the ACLU for authorizing warrantless cellphone tracking of people in 79 instances. Christie has stressed that the practice was legal and court approved.[18]
 




StrangerThan -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:35:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

[:D]



Waiting.........


Does it really fucking matter? Constituents are unhappy with the actions of their legislator, and picked another.






Sanity -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:40:28 AM)


All kinds of allegations against that wonderful right wing asshole, but hes still sitting in the governors. chair.

Must not be anything too serious, you know?






mnottertail -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:42:52 AM)

sorta like what you are doing to obama, but there he sits, yeah, I concede the point in light of that reasoned argumentation.




Sanity -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:44:28 AM)


I'm not alleging anything against Obama that isnt true mnot - he is a quivering plate of jello.

Do you deny that? Else, why dont we have single payer by now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

sorta like what you are doing to obama, but there he sits, yeah, I concede the point in light of that reasoned argumentation.




Owner59 -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:47:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

[:D]



Waiting.........


Does it really fucking matter? Constituents are unhappy with the actions of their legislator, and picked another.






The question we`re waiting for FFD to answer,the one he`s ducking, is how is Obama a socialist?




mnottertail -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:52:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I'm not alleging anything against Obama that isnt true mnot - he is a quivering plate of jello.

Do you deny that? Else, why dont we have single payer by now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

sorta like what you are doing to obama, but there he sits, yeah, I concede the point in light of that reasoned argumentation.



OK, I am going to educate you on this.

He is in the executive branch of our government, and by our constitution (thats like our law of the land, Tom) is not allowed to vote in or command the legislative branch.  (That is the branch our congress is in, which you obviously were unaware of.) This constitutional principle is called; separation of powers. It can also be referred to as a system of checks and balances.

Hope that helps you situate yourself a little better in this adult discussion.




Sanity -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 6:58:37 AM)


So the Dems in Congress ignore him.

Invisible jello then.

Got it.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:04:48 AM)

The foundation of this country was based upon the concept of various freedoms and liberties. To break free from an overbearing stupid government control system in the first place. It was also never the intentions of our founding fathers or people that fought and died for our freedom, for give it over and make America the slave it is today to Wall Street, The World Bank system, the for americans to be bailing out AIG's and Enrons of the world. Some serious changes occured during and after the World Wars. I'm amazed that some people actually buy into these shit changes as being what America was founded upon. What's ironic is that it's been both the left and right selling us out and we continue to support this stupidy packaged as option A or option B.

Every time on side gives it seriously at the same time is taking from us. This is like a magician pulling off slight of hand work. We are shown exactly what they want us to see. We are distracted by Propaganda, Bamboozedled with bullshit. Mislead and misdirected.

Seriously, the Obama Administration and the Tea Baggers should book a Cruise ship together and meet up with an iceburg in the middle of the Altantic Ocean. This way those with common sense would be left behind standing on the shore of this country.





mnottertail -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:05:31 AM)

Well, to be completely fair now Tom, they also ignore all the republicans (as well they should).  That they don't have to do by law, though. They do it by reason of common good.




Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:09:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
OK, I am going to educate you on this.

He is in the executive branch of our government, and by our constitution (thats like our law of the land, Tom) is not allowed to vote in or command the legislative branch.  (That is the branch our congress is in, which you obviously were unaware of.) This constitutional principle is called; separation of powers. It can also be referred to as a system of checks and balances.

Hope that helps you situate yourself a little better in this adult discussion.


Ron, I'm starting to question if they even teach this shit in school anymore. Why are people so damn in the dark and clueless?




Sanity -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:10:56 AM)


Youre a moron if youre unaware that mnot was being facetious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Ron, I'm starting to question if they even teach this shit in school anymore. Why are people so damn in the dark and clueless?





StrangerThan -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:13:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

[:D]



Waiting.........


Does it really fucking matter? Constituents are unhappy with the actions of their legislator, and picked another.






The question we`re waiting for FFD to answer,the one he`s ducking, is how is Obama a socialist?


I think the bigger question is why is he perceived as one by so many. The rest of the debate is hogwash. For every sentence typed there will be a technical definition to which rabid defenders and rabid attackers can cling regardless of action or intent. The theory of socialism has at its heart common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production/allocation of resources. The practice of it however, tends to bleed over into programs and ideologies that have nothing to do with the definition. It is one the messier aspects of humanity that we can rarely follow a straight line.

Obama is by definition, not a socialist, but many of the statements and goals he has pursued have a socialistic flavor to them. And no, I'm not going to go hunt them for you nor argue his entire fucking history with you. You're firmly planted on one end of the spectrum and damn well staying there. Reminds me of Bush supporters during his administration. I used to think he'd have to personally squat and shit on them to make them do anything but spout party lines. I think the same thing about most democrats and liberals these days.

As with anything though, like.. conservative/liberal, labels come quick and easy in today's world, regardless of whether one ascribes to any given set of tenets or not. 






Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:17:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Youre a moron if youre unaware that mnot was being facetious.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Ron, I'm starting to question if they even teach this shit in school anymore. Why are people so damn in the dark and clueless?




I'm totally aware that he was thank you. :-)

I'm however being extremely blunt about an apparent issue. That dispite everything people have learned or been taught, people are ignoring it in favor of being caught up in the proganda and bullshit. Amazing how educated people are taking the bait and falling pray to bullshit. Seriously though, does make me wonder if this shit is still being taught in school though.




Lucylastic -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 7:26:58 AM)

quote:

I'm however being extremely blunt about an apparent issue. That dispite everything people have learned or been taught, people are ignoring it in favor of being caught up in the proganda and bullshit. Amazing how educated people are taking the bait and falling pray to bullshit. Seriously though, does make me wonder if this shit is still being taught in school though.


THIS
Excllent post, and sadly they are becoming more and more  irrelevant, the more they spout easily debunkable dogma.
Socialist my arse.
Marxist, not even close
however I would love to play in some jello with the man.Obama not the elf




EbonyWood -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 8:23:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

I'm however being extremely blunt about an apparent issue. That dispite everything people have learned or been taught, people are ignoring it in favor of being caught up in the proganda and bullshit. Amazing how educated people are taking the bait and falling pray to bullshit. Seriously though, does make me wonder if this shit is still being taught in school though.


THIS
Excllent post, and sadly they are becoming more and more  irrelevant, the more they spout easily debunkable dogma.
Socialist my arse.
Marxist, not even close
however I would love to play in some jello with the man.Obama not the elf



The means of production are actually being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands and there is no collective anything.
 
That nobody has a clue about actual, as opposed to propagandized, socialism is a legacy of the communism scare era, where everything not American was bad and left unexamined for a generation or more.
 
Heads on pikes. I want fucking heads on pikes.
 
 




mnottertail -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 8:36:05 AM)

I will hoist a petard. 




Jeffff -> RE: GOP Rep. "I Refused To Call Obama 'A Socialist' And I Lost" (8/11/2010 8:37:09 AM)

I will hoist a pint!

Bet me who enjoys their hoisting more?




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