RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post

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WyldHrt -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 1:57:02 AM)
Having answered LP's excellent post, I'm out. I'm tired of correcting others who either didn't bother to read the thread before posting or lack the reading comprehension skills to understand what was said. My best to the OP, and I hope she and her SO either come to a mutual understanding or part as friends. On a personal note, I will say that it will be a cold day in Hell when I turn my back on a friend, let alone a lover, in physical distress. I don't really give a shit how they got that way, TBH. That is for later. In the moment, I would do my best to take care of them. Some here act like the OP barged in unexpectedly and demanded a Whopper, fries, and a full body massage.. say what? 14 pages on whether someone should give their girlfriend a drink of water (meaning she gets to drink it) and a blanket. If you really have to think about that, I just give up.

NorthernGent -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 3:02:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt Having answered LP's excellent post, I'm out. I'm tired of correcting others who either didn't bother to read the thread before posting or lack the reading comprehension skills to understand what was said. My best to the OP, and I hope she and her SO either come to a mutual understanding or part as friends. On a personal note, I will say that it will be a cold day in Hell when I turn my back on a friend, let alone a lover, in physical distress. I don't really give a shit how they got that way, TBH. That is for later. In the moment, I would do my best to take care of them. Some here act like the OP barged in unexpectedly and demanded a Whopper, fries, and a full body massage.. say what? 14 pages on whether someone should give their girlfriend a drink of water (meaning she gets to drink it) and a blanket. If you really have to think about that, I just give up. I think what you have is a minority view that a) nothing should be taken for granted and b) she's still alive to tell the tale - so she wasn't in such a bad state after all....and the vast majority of people are agreeing with you so no harm done and no reason to grow world weary on the back of a thread on a message board. But yeah....you're right on two counts....a) I skimmed the OP b) yeah....you would take care of her for the night and sort it out in the morning......although he may have judged the situation and didn't feel she was in too bad a state at all. Not that this changes where I was coming from. If a woman I was with took my actions for granted then I'd have to do something about it.....although there's such a thing as a time and a place to learn a lesson. People assume they have a right to something from a relationship...they don't. If she expects a certain level of care or any other behaviour then the onus is on her to find out if he can live up to her expectations.....they're her expectations not his. And were I her....I'd be reappraising my values....and if she concludes that she has a right to a certain level of care any time..any place....which is up to her...her life....then she needs to take the steps to ensure this is always on offer for her.

jujubeeMB -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 3:26:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt On a personal note, I will say that it will be a cold day in Hell when I turn my back on a friend, let alone a lover, in physical distress. I don't really give a shit how they got that way, TBH. That is for later. In the moment, I would do my best to take care of them. Some here act like the OP barged in unexpectedly and demanded a Whopper, fries, and a full body massage.. say what? 14 pages on whether someone should give their girlfriend a drink of water (meaning she gets to drink it) and a blanket. If you really have to think about that, I just give up. Yep. And remind me to pose this situation to anyone I'm looking to date, so I know where they stand on the issue of compassion.

nephandi -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 7:55:40 AM)
Greetings quote: I think that there is a difference between exerting one's self and suffering nerve damage in your hands, or a concussion from being face slapped too hard, or having a spinal injury from impact play or being tied up incorrectly. I think if someone wonders in from play, tells you they are not well perhaps you OWE them to make sure they aren't injured. I think it is rather much that people who top others are stating they don't owe someone they are involved with that... yes. Do it occur to you that the young man in question might not even consider that it is possible to have nerve damage from play. As far as I understood it he is very inexperienced. To him the OP just seamed spaced out, and yet he is the bad guy because she did not communicate and thereby put him in a situation he quite possibly did not have the experience to handle? quote: Did she say she was "angry"? She said she was "upset" and her "trust" had been "violated". She said she did not know if she wanted to continue with the relationship. I think her feelings are just as valid as his. What trust? her expectations where violated, for there to be trust and responsibility there have to be an acceptance of that responsibility, not just dropping it in his lap. This reminds me of a debate I had on another BDSM forum where one said that hard play where bad because he had spoken to two girls that had been violated. The Dom had not gone beyond the pre arranged limits, and they had not used their safe word, but they had expected him to just know that they did not like what was happening. I mean seriously if the OP decides her boyfriend is not sensitive enough for her, fine that is her choice but to speak about her trust having been violated that is to put it bluntly bullshit. Not having ones expectations met is not the same as having ones trust violated. But it seams like some, partucualry women expect men to be mind readers and then get all huffy when the men do not read out their intentions ahead of time and react as expected. I wish you well

laurell3 -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 9:08:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt On a personal note, I will say that it will be a cold day in Hell when I turn my back on a friend, let alone a lover, in physical distress. I don't really give a shit how they got that way, TBH. That is for later. In the moment, I would do my best to take care of them. Some here act like the OP barged in unexpectedly and demanded a Whopper, fries, and a full body massage.. say what? 14 pages on whether someone should give their girlfriend a drink of water (meaning she gets to drink it) and a blanket. If you really have to think about that, I just give up. Yep. And remind me to pose this situation to anyone I'm looking to date, so I know where they stand on the issue of compassion. While you are at it, ask them if they think they will ever make a mistake and let you down. If you find someone that says no, I'd find someone new, because we ALL make mistakes. We all do stupid things in relationships eventually and disappoint, hurt or upset our partner. There is something else going on here. Relationship expectations. Theirs don't meet. THAT is what SHE is concerned about. THAT is what they need to address. SHE isn't concerned about the he said/she said and minutia of events. She admits they BOTH made mistakes. She is concerned with finding a way to make their expectations meet in a noncombative way that addresses his feelings and situation as well. I hope it worked for her. She does seem mature and committed to this relationship. Many of you just seem a bit crazy about the whole thing on both sides. Fourteen pages of minutia and the expectation of WHOLE lot of people on CM that they will somehow find perfect partners is NOT really relevant or realistic. Relationships are two people that are very different coming together to try to make one life work harmoniously. It will NEVER be perfect and there will always be some conflict. How you deal with the conflicts, let-downs and bumps in the road is what really defines the strength and quality of your relationship and your liklihood to succeed and grow together, not unrealistic expectations and the fun stuff.

AQuietSimpleMan -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 10:25:04 AM)
What I don't get is that I don't have this problem. None of the people I know have this problem. This problem is one of those things that almost all the people here have had to speculate on. Having given this a LOT of thought over the last couple of days, I have come to accept that no matter how angry I was at the situation I would in fact do what it took to get my partner back to a coherent state, I would help them drink, and I would find them a cookie, and I would warm up their hands. My Brain tells me I would be rather upset, angry even. I would know in my head that they will be okay, and there would be a huge part of me who would want to use this as a lesson, but I am sure in the end I would be there and take care of her no matter what. The conversation we would have after that could generate the end of our relationship, if she refused to own her part in doing something and expecting someone else to deal with the repercussions… yes there is a possibility that that could cause a serious enough problem for me that I would have to state it was a deal breaker. I have had some very strong reactions to this thread, mostly due to the fear mongering that has become commonplace in these kinds of threads, telling people that they should worry about truly rare situations because they are possible, I respond with the idea that blood transfer with a NYC Sewer Rat is possible too, so should we test a subspaced slave for the Plague? I HONESTLY find much of discussion on Hypertension and Hypoglycemia to be just as out there. Sure it is possible that this could happen but the odds that it could happen with someone who had no idea they were prevalent to such things and ending up in a situation that required medical attention the first time they experienced such a situation is in reality as common as coming into contact with a sewer rat. The reality is I no longer believe the story as the OP told it. With the addition of discussing that there was a call made up to the boyfriend and that there was even brief discussion and that the boyfriend was left with his arm around her I am just trying to figure out how long this seriously deep subspace lasted? I mean she was walked from the play floor to the room. Even if the closest room was theirs this is at least a good 3 to 5 minutes walk as the rooms are far enough away from the activity hall that the noise does not bother guests. Then they put her in the room and apparently discuss the situation and he is left with his arm around her, so at least another 3 minutes minimum for chatting and discussion. Lets say that she wasn’t tied to any rigging that she had to be taken out of, so we can just ignore the amount of time that, that would have taken. Then remember that the OP said that they were in bed and he had told her how cold her hands were and that he wanted them off of him. How much time even at minimum would it have take to get in bed turn out the lights, be prepared for sleep, so on and so forth. 10 minutes, even 8. My point is, is that in what could easily have been 20 minutes no one noticed the nearly catatonic girl and thought you know she needs some water? She was able to effectively state that she wanted to be taken to the boyfriend, she was able to effectively state that she was done playing; there are so many things that seem to require more ability to talk then she said he had. For instance how would anyone have known that she wanted to go to the room? Anyway, what happened will be a mystery unless we were there, I accept the argument that we should care for people who need it no matter what, what I have a problem with, what I have had a problem with from the beginning is the idea that it should just be that simple. I honestly can say that if this happened to me, a new understanding would be had, it would not be something I would allow to happen again, and if I did I would most likely take care of her again, but once she was better it would most likely be the end of our relationship. Why so Heavy? Because if my partner cannot take personal responsibilities for her own actions and then expects to be able to fall back on someone else without learning from their mistakes isn’t looking for direction, they are looking for justified irresponsibility. Unless there is an agreement to do so, lets be honest, Playing in an S&M scene is not the same as breaking a rib, or getting the flu, or getting in a car accident, it is intentionally putting yourself in the position of having an effect occur that will require you to be in need of some form of care. Unlike many things having a kink scene has a usually specific outcome. If you get sub drop, no matter how intense, you know you get it… I think you should be responsible enough to plan for it. I get a form of Top Space, it requires me to take care of myself, I feel the need to be left alone, to be allowed to shake off whatever effects came from engaging with my partner in that kind of play, I do not play with someone unless I explain this facet of my demeanor and I sure as hell do not wait until after play to bring up this point. Nor do I expect someone to play with me who does not accept this part of my demeanor. I make it clear to all involved what My needs are, I negotiate what will happen up to and including the aftercare, if I am willing to do what I think they want, then I agree. If I am not then I don’t, if I agree to it and then what they expected to happen was much more extensive than that then I explain that they need to be aware of that in the future and I may or may not play with them again in the future. My Question is why is expecting them to do the same thing, that is to say take personal responsibility for their own needs and vocalize this prior to play a bad thing? Why are my expectations of a person being responsible for themselves out of line? QSM

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 10:39:57 AM)
quote: My Question is why is expecting them to do the same thing, that is to say take personal responsibility for their own needs and vocalize this prior to play a bad thing? Why are my expectations of a person being responsible for themselves out of line? I don't get this question... You stated you spell out your expectations with your partners, no harm no foul. Some people are really self contained and they have no need for their partner to lean on, etc... Personally, for me, I have gotten to the point where I do not want to be involved in a relationship where we do not take mutual responsibility for each other. I want a "we", not a "me". I want a connected, intimate relationship where I know he has my back and I have his. If I came home drunk from an office party I want him to at the most be annoyed with me, and at the least find it amusing because it doesn't happen all that often. I want someone who faces life with a smile on his face, a joke on the tip of his tongue, and does not sweat the small shit, and to me taking care of an incapacitated partner whether they were drunk or in subspace on a big weekend out is small shit. It would be like getting pissed off your mate got drunk in Las Vegas on a huge party weekend... it is like WTF, why did you go there if not to party?

laurell3 -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 4:04:50 PM)
Everyone has this problem AQSM. Everyone makes assumptions in relationships that don't end up being true. Everyone makes mistakes in relationships. The actual details of the event aren't all that important and certainly aren't to the OP. Stop making this about you. It isn't. Shit happens, we're either adult enough to deal with it together and grow from it or not. I'm guessing a whole lot of people here are not. And just fyi this isn't that uncommon in my experience at all. From saying I have to have water and food to saying dont let me refuse the water and food, make me take it and don't take no for an answer...to various other discussions on aftercare, it's been VERY common for me. Most people don't know in my experience and yes it is signifcant and important.

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 4:17:15 PM)
quote: Shit happens, we're either adult enough to deal with it together and grow from it or not. I'm guessing a whole lot of people here are not. That is a large statement about people you do not personally know.... I have tolerated a lot in my past relationships, and gotten past worse than what the OP pointed out. At this stage in my life I am extremely hesitant to want to put up with more which is why compatibility is a huge thing for me. For example, QSM and I would not be compatible because we have different needs. I think is a MATURE thing to realize that before you get too serious about a relationship you should find out whether or not that person is compatible with you.. I see a lot of people on this thread saying that in different ways. What you seem to be saying is that if people desire compatibility they aren't willing to accept mistakes by their partner. Perhaps there is no "mistake" that happened in this case, maybe they are just too different. I don't know, you don't know, the OP is trying to find that out herself. A "mistake" is when people do things in a relationship for which they are sorry. We do not know if this person is sorry, but from what she has posted about it, the early signs are that he isn't. A "mistake" is when both people move to take corrective action to keep a relationship in tact because some part of it has been breeched. A "mistake" can be rectified because no one is perfect

laurell3 -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 5:05:45 PM)
odd how you purposfully didn't highlight the word "guessing" julia. I don't think making a mistake is only indicated where an apology is extended. I find that definition to be narrow and unhelpful personally.

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 5:15:56 PM)
quote: I don't think making a mistake is only indicated where an apology is extended. I find that definition to be narrow and unhelpful personally. I find that if there is a mistake that I have made, I need to own up to that "mistake" and acknowledged it happened...Now your process by which that owning up for the mistake and making sure it does not happen anymore maybe different than mine... but a "mistake" is a "mistake", incompatibility is not a "mistake", it means no one made a mistake and the two are not right for each other... Yes "guessing" how other people have what you deem "inferior" relationship skills to your own, instead of just out right saying they do... that was such a BIG difference.

laurell3 -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 5:30:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I don't think making a mistake is only indicated where an apology is extended. I find that definition to be narrow and unhelpful personally. I find that if there is a mistake that I have made, I need to own up to that "mistake" and acknowledged it happened...Now your process by which that owning up for the mistake and making sure it does not happen anymore maybe different than mine... but a "mistake" is a "mistake", incompatibility is not a "mistake", it means no one made a mistake and the two are not right for each other... Yes "guessing" how other people have what you deem "inferior" relationship skills to your own, instead of just out right saying they do... that was such a BIG difference. I'm not playing the overpersonalizing and making everything dramatic game with you tonight julia. It's tiresome. I didn't say inferior. You chose to read so many posts that way, that's you, not me. And yes, I think having overly optomistic expectations that nothing will ever go wrong in relationships and both people have to be perfect is just silly and will lead to nothing but misery for both people involved. Clearly I think that. Clearly I beleive most rational people would think that as well. The rest is in your head. As I stated, my personal defintion of a mistake does not include demanding an apology and I find the definition unhelpful. I'm not going to agree with your definition, you can't follow me around and MAKE me agree with it either. I'm done here. Have a nice night.

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 7:39:36 PM)
You are the one that made a semi-snarky comment pointed at those who do not share your idea of how relationships should or should not be conducted... I am not a romantic relationship expert, I would NEVER claim to be because I find people who claim relationship expertise to be somewhat full of bullshit. I do have many successful relationships in my life that are not romantic. I have relationships with my siblings, my mother, long standing friends, and most importantly with my son. Forgiveness is a big portion to the success of these relationships, but there are even some of my platonic relationships that have had to be ended, one example is my best childhood friend who got hooked on meth. I had to set a boundary because she was attracting addicts to my home and i had a son to consider. She did not like my boundary and will not talk to me to this day. We were incompatible friends.... and that literally broke my heart. Now, here is the major point I was trying to make, because I do not want my point to be bastardized... There are mistakes that people make in relationships. There are also incompatibilities within relationships. These are not the same thing. Being incompatible intrinsically to a person is not making a "mistake". It is not a mistake to dislike being responsible for another person, or someone who will ask things of you. It is not a mistake to want someone you can count on either. These are competing needs that are incompatible... there is no "mistake", it is just that some people don't jive together... they should move on and be happy if these competing needs make them not so... pretty basic stuff. Not complicated. No one is "wrong" here. Now for you, if love means never having to say your sorry, great! Right on! But if someone has fucked up with me an apology for that fuck up is the beginning of the process that says "Hey, I hurt you, I don't want to hurt you again, so I feel bad about that and lets find a way to make it right". There has to be some acknowledgement that there is something wrong before it can be fixed. I have no problem apologizing to someone if I hurt them. I do not see apologizing for my portion of a problem as a huge moral failing. I see it as the BEGINNING of the healing process and the BEGINNING of fixing what is wrong. Now if that means I am immature, don't know my ass from page 8 on how to have a relationship... fuck it, I have many relationships with lots of people that fill my life and I am a happy person...

angeldmort -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 9:06:57 PM)
Some of the posts on this thread have been deeply disturbing. I've added a lot of people to my Hide list. If anyone is ever going to say "well, you got yourself into it" then why would ANYONE EVER want to play? The moment you concent to anything, you've 'gotten yourself into it' and it sounds like some folks view it as a blanket statent that means all bets are off. That just sounds like something vanilla people would say about everything we do. Also, just because it's BDSM doesn't negate all relationship concerns - just because the problem occured in play, it's somehow not subject to the same values as the rest of a relationship? This whole thing boils down to witholding. Someone wasn't happy about something, did not say anything, by the way, then saw their partner in need, and knowingly chose not to give what was needed. That's passive agressive punishment, and he basically said so the next day - he knew what to do, he knew she needed it, and didn't want to give it because he had an issue with who's "job" it should be. The moment being kind to me got labeled "job" or "responsiblity" a red flag would go off, just like it has for the OP. If a partner will knowingly choose to deny their caring out of anger or jealousy or pettyness or anything else to punish them for something, there's no way to know when they will be angry again and do it later. We have to be able to trust that they will choose self-awareness of their feelings and act accordingly, reliably, or we just can't trust them at all. Aftercare isn't the problem - a person is either compassionate or not. He wasn't,. and he made an infomed choice accordingly. I would never be with someone who views basic human kindness as a job they can choose or not choose on a whim. I'm all for healthy boundaries - just divorced someone who would not get help for his chemical imbalances and such. I also know you don't just decide 'nah.. I'm annoyed with you so this crisis is not my problem' out of the blue with someone you claim to love. Oh yeah.. we absolutely discussed this today, and thankfully, we both felt the same way about it. That 'not my responsibility' attitude is a cop out - there are other books Id reccomend here. All dealing with how to handle problems in a loving healthy way. "The essence of all religions is love, compassion, and tolerance. Kindness is my true religion. The clear proof of a person’s love of God is if that person genuinely shows love to fellow human beings." ~ Dalai Lama

juliaoceania -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/15/2010 9:14:34 PM)
I so agree with you... every bit of it.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/16/2010 7:41:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I'm not sure why she needed to ask him again if he was available to help her should she need it that night when he had already promised her that he would be there for her whenever she needed him. He made those promises and she, foolish op, believed him. He shouldn't have made those promises because he knew he wasn't available to be depended on. He did so to get the relationship he wanted without thinking about the relationship she had said she wanted. I don't know about you CD, but when someone promises me that, to be my partner, love me and protect me, be there for me when I need him, I don't normally answer with "I don't believe you. Will you be there if I have a virus and am puking my brains up? Will you be there if my father dies and I'm too distraught to drive the two hours? Will you be there if I have a car accident due to me not having replaced my tires this week, but pushing it off to next?" I take people at their word. If they don't keep it, then the consequences can well be the ending of the relationship or me taking back all the trust I had extended them. I don't cross examine someone to see if they meant what they said. I believe them as I expect to be believed. For me Des, I take people as the context warrants. I've heard all kinds of things in my life from romantic partners and what I've found is that, for the most part, they are said and meant when things are really, really good OR when a situation has arisen in which they feel the need to say something without really following through. The instances of those statements being UNCONDITIONALLY reliable are much fewer... Makes me sound reallllllllllllly cynical, does it not? Oddly enough, I remain...as one of my past partners put it...the eternal optimist. That leads me to being a romantic. Not a tragic one but certainly a realistic one who takes these statements with a definite grain of salt and evaluates circumstances as they come along as to whether or not I had a reasonable expectation of their statement being truly unconditional. And oddly enough, I mean what I say to someone. If I tell you that I love you or if I tell you I'm IN love with you and will be there through good and bad times, I will. But let's be honest Des and use the following example which is IN NO WAY related to the OP and her boyfriend, except as an illustration...I made a vow to my first wife to love, honor and cherish, in good times and bad. She had a habit of testing this. She'd gotten pregnant while we were engaged...by another man. She got in a car accident the weekend before our wedding...with her best friend AND two men in the car, all of them drinking and far out on a country road. She had a one-night stand with her softball coach after a fight with me 6 mos after we were married. Now, some might say I'm stupid...others might say I was following through on the promises I'd made to love and honor and cherish in good times and bad. That only went so far though...when we moved to Minnesota and I was in school all through the day and in study group until 10 at night, she got lonely and took up with her boss. That was it for me, the man who stands by his word...for I finally saw that giving that type of promise to someone who continually tested it and hurt me in the process was an ongoing exercise in proving what type of man I was to someone who didn't deserve it.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/16/2010 7:56:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite If someone won't treat me at least as well as my friends do, I certainly don't want to date them! I don't know that I'd break up over one time, but the conversation afterwards does sound like it would be a dealbreaker. With that said, I think I have a bit of a different take on him comparing it to her being drunk. If his father did come home drunk, and the symptoms of deep subspace appear similar to him, it could very well have been triggering for him. Since the OP hasn't gone that deeply before, it might not have been an issue. AQSM, I go very deeply into subspace at times. I like getting coddled a bit, but can take care of myself, or find someone else to if we're at a public event. You've already said you're incompatible with people who need a lot of aftercare - nothing wrong with that, just neither I nor the OP would be a good match for you. That doesn't mean we're wrong or overly demanding, or that you're callous and inhumane, just incompatible. [:D] Nephandi, the friends came in and talked with the OP's boyfriend/Top before leaving her there. She said that if he'd expressed any objections to taking care of her at the time, they would have been happy to do so. CD, I'd seen other people go deeply into subspace, and heard about the effects, but it didn't have that visceral reality to me until I was experiencing it, even though I had been in a milder form of it before. The first time I actually felt submissive toward someone also felt completely different from bottoming, and threw me for a bit of a loop. Now that I know I can respond that way, I generally don't bottom to people unless I'm involved with them, especially men. Women don't tend to draw that reaction from me so far, but I can't rule it out either. I'm single right now, and I will discuss aftercare and subspace among many other things before entering another committed relationship. I can't always know all of the right questions to ask - sometimes something comes up that neither person can anticipate beforehand. I agree in that situation, I'd try to cut them some slack, and hope they did so for me. Saying that he doesn't want to be responsible for me, and behaving as the OP described, would wound me deeply and damage my trust in him. Hello andalusite...~smiles~. I agree that the conversation the next day was a hurtful thing and that some of what came out of that conversation was certainly different from what the OP...and perhaps the boyfriend...envisioned the relationship as. And don't get me wrong, I can understand the loss of trust and the hurt after some of these truths came out. But I also see that this conversation was one that should have been left for a few days to let things simmer down and to give both parties a chance to gather their thoughts and feelings and express them in a reasonable manner. Would that have stopped the hurt and loss of trust? No, but in my opinion it would not have been nearly as confrontational or anger-provoking with some things said that were said...again, in my opinion...in the heat of the moment and by BOTH sides. I've said it before...in my opinion, his aftercare was subpar as was his way of honoring his promise to always care for her. I would have cared for her, up to MY standards and, not to brag, but most of my partners would tell you that's pretty damn good. BUT, with all that said, what many seem to be unable to see past is the fact that it was a new and different circumstance AND that he had his own plans for the evening, discussed and agreed to. In addition, we don't know his side, nor do we know the ins and outs of their relationship. People talk about focusing on minutiae in this thread and this has gone on to a great extent. He gave care...but it was done so grudgingly. He gave basic care...she needed more and expected it, despite neither of them having run into this situation. And on and on. In my last post above, I noted circumstances of my first marriage. Some might feel that I had the right to leave her after the final situation which did cause me to leave...they might even feel that I should have done so sooner and that she was a narcissistic, self-serving bitch. However, there might be those though who would want to listen to her side first and decide that perhaps I was not there when I could have been or that I was not the same man she married or whatever and decide that I was 50 percent or more (or less but certainly not blameless) at fault. I'm saying the same thing holds true here.

HisBestGirl -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/16/2010 8:18:48 AM)
I'm not sure if this has been resolved yet, as it's about 15 pages long and it's 1am here, but IMO, the issue here is that he is/ was your boyfriend, not some random person you shag occasionally. I'm assuming that there has been some kind of commitment made by both of you and I'm also assuming, based on your POV, that the general understanding was that he gave his permission for you to go off for the evening and you felt justified in coming back to the hotel room, expecting a reasonable level of care. I think you were completely justified in your expectation. If you made a habit of doing this, I'd be less sympathetic but if this is the first time this sort of thing has happened (your extreme reaction) then given that you're in a relationship and he cares for you, I think he was out of line. If I were in your position, I'd have walked away the next morning.

Andalusite -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/16/2010 8:38:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent More obfuscation of the OP...in no way shape or form does the original post suggest the 'boyfriend' doesn't like doing things to take care of her.......on this particular occasion he was reluctant....and for good reason. You're a strange lot.....every time you don't get your way he 'doesn't care' for you. This whole thing screams of middle class spoilt brats who are used to mummy and daddy paying their way through college etc....and are yet to grasp that not everyone wants to play mummy or daddy with people who think they're entitled to something because they're running round appealing to 'deep subspace'. I don't think subspace has much to do with it. My main concern was the conversation the next day, when he said he didn't plan to take responsibility for her or take care of her in the future. This isn't something that comes up frequently for me, and so far hasn't happened when I was subspacey at all. 3 or 4 times in my last relationship, over the course of a year, my Master and I got back from a date, and I was cold and needed an extra blanket, or got thirsty, or just wanted a snuggle. I could have managed to get the water and extra blanket for myself, but I appreciated him taking care of me. If I'd asked him, and he'd yelled at me and told me I wasn't his responsibility, I would have assumed he was angry with me. If he'd said he planned not to take care of me in the future, I would really have felt we were incompatible. In my previous relationship with the Dominant before him, over the course of 4 years, similar things happened maybe 6 or 7 times. It's not like I'm constantly needy, but if I'm really cold or not feeling well, it's nice being coddled a little. I did plenty of stuff for each of them while we were together as well, it's not like it was one-sided. Yes, I do have the expectation that if I'm dating someone, he will care about my well-being and act on it. That's a lot more important to me than how tall he is, or what his specific kinks are, or what ethnicity he is, or what D/s or BDSM orientation he identifies as. Yeah, I would have survived just fine without, but the relationship would not have. I think that's a reasonable expectation to have, and I do try to communicate that with anyone I date - that I want us to take care of each other.

Andalusite -> RE: Grudgingly given aftercare - long post (8/16/2010 8:48:23 AM)
CD, I completely agree that on the very rare occasions when I'm upset or a little angry, I prefer to wait until I calm down before talking it out. I don't lie and pretend everything's ok, but I ask for a little time to process it in my own head. It's entirely possible that some of what he said he didn't really mean, and just said in the heat of the moment. I'm probably oversimplifying by saying it's a dealbreaker - I would try to check in a few days later and find out whether he really meant it rather than breaking up on the spot. I really do tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I think that if there is a breakdown in communication or in the relationship, it's both people's responsibility, and usually nobody's fault. I still admire almost all of the men I've dated, and think they're wonderful people, even though things didn't work out between us. If one of them needed help from me, I would be happy to (well, depending on circumstances and as long as it didn't cause a conflict with someone I was currently dating - helping someone pack and move, or dropping them off at the airport, or bringing them gas if their car ran dry is different from them asking for something intimate). If I needed help, most of them would be willing to give me a hand, too. I also do those things for my friends, and most of them are willing to reciprocate.

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