RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 4:12:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

A strategic planning site for future terror attacks, a foot in the door to start lobbying for Sharia, and in general fundie Muslims having a trophy Mosque in which to piss on their enemies.



To use an earlier quote of yours, slightly altered. "If you want to believe this Imam has nothing but warlike intent by wanting to build his center, nothing I say can change your mind."




Elisabella -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 4:43:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

To use an earlier quote of yours, slightly altered. "If you want to believe this Imam has nothing but warlike intent by wanting to build his center, nothing I say can change your mind."



This.




Elisabella -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 4:56:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I'd say his conclusion says it best
quote:

Abdul Rauf uses stealth strategies that make it difficult to detect their Shariah driven agenda and while under the guise of interfaith dialogue and building bridges in what they say in English. In Arabic the statements are clear—the bridge is to build Shariah.


If you want to believe this Imam has nothing but peaceful intent by wanting to build his center, nothing I say can change your mind.



That's not even a quote from the Imam, that's just the author's opinion.

I don't think that anyone wants to turn the US into a Muslim theocracy or replace constitutional law with sharia law.

If anything, though, that fear should encourage people to keep religion and politics separate, as the founding fathers intended. Maybe when the first Muslim politician runs on a platform of "sharia values" a lot of people will finally wake up and see what they've done by using trying to inject their own religious values into the workings of the state.

If you don't want a religious theocracy, speak out against things like Prop 8 and "abstinence only education" and anyone questioning Obama's religion. That's where the danger is. That's your culture, acting just as fucktarded as some people in their culture.

It wasn't too long ago that our religious fundamentalists were bombing abortion clinics, gleefully murdering abortion doctors and any other staff that happened to be there. Religious terrorism at its finest. Theocracy in America won't come as a stealthy sharia takeover, it'll come in the bills crafted by the "religious right" in our own backyard.




Lucylastic -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 4:59:30 PM)

[sm=agree.gif][sm=goodpost.gif][sm=hippie.gif]




Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 5:18:59 PM)

quote:

If you don't want a religious theocracy, speak out against things like Prop 8 and "abstinence only education" and anyone questioning Obama's religion. That's where the danger is. That's your culture, acting just as fucktarded as some people in their culture.

It wasn't too long ago that our religious fundamentalists were bombing abortion clinics, gleefully murdering abortion doctors and any other staff that happened to be there. Religious terrorism at its finest. Theocracy in America won't come as a stealthy sharia takeover, it'll come in the bills crafted by the "religious right" in our own backyard.


Bingo.





slvemike4u -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/18/2010 6:26:28 PM)

[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]




calamitysandra -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 3:59:45 AM)

Just as an aside, the planned community center is Sufi. It has as much connection to the radical Islamic terrorists, as a German Lutheran church has to an Irish catholic priest abusing kids.




subrob1967 -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 4:16:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I'd say his conclusion says it best
quote:

Abdul Rauf uses stealth strategies that make it difficult to detect their Shariah driven agenda and while under the guise of interfaith dialogue and building bridges in what they say in English. In Arabic the statements are clear—the bridge is to build Shariah.


If you want to believe this Imam has nothing but peaceful intent by wanting to build his center, nothing I say can change your mind.



That's not even a quote from the Imam, that's just the author's opinion.

I don't think that anyone wants to turn the US into a Muslim theocracy or replace constitutional law with sharia law.

If anything, though, that fear should encourage people to keep religion and politics separate, as the founding fathers intended. Maybe when the first Muslim politician runs on a platform of "sharia values" a lot of people will finally wake up and see what they've done by using trying to inject their own religious values into the workings of the state.

If you don't want a religious theocracy, speak out against things like Prop 8 and "abstinence only education" and anyone questioning Obama's religion. That's where the danger is. That's your culture, acting just as fucktarded as some people in their culture.

It wasn't too long ago that our religious fundamentalists were bombing abortion clinics, gleefully murdering abortion doctors and any other staff that happened to be there. Religious terrorism at its finest. Theocracy in America won't come as a stealthy sharia takeover, it'll come in the bills crafted by the "religious right" in our own backyard.


No, that's NOT my culture, I don't believe in the invisible deity, believe homo's should be able to marry, could care less what Obama's spirituality is, or a woman's right to choose to murder their child.

MY culture believes that Americans have the freedom to speak out against prop 8, believe in God, or not, go to jail for bombing abortion clinics (and I can guarantee you my sentencing would be much harsher than your typical lefty) and parents have the right to choose what their kids are taught in school.

You have to admit that since the 60's progressive movement the U.S. has seen quite a dramatic rise in STD's, teen pregnancies, drug abuse, and violent crime, but there can't be any correlation, now can there?




GambitLeBeau -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 4:32:26 AM)

Would you agree with parents having total control over what their children are taught?

Faith schools teach their religion like fact- surely this needs to be moderated, and a real religious education brought in as standard, across the world? Indoctrination should not be tolerated.




truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 6:15:05 AM)

quote:

A strategic planning site for future terror attacks, a foot in the door to start lobbying for Sharia, and in general fundie Muslims having a trophy Mosque in which to piss on their enemies.


[sm=agree.gif]What he said[sm=agree.gif]




truckinslave -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 6:18:32 AM)

quote:

If anything, though, that fear should encourage people to keep religion and politics separate, as the founding fathers intended. Maybe when the first Muslim politician runs on a platform of "sharia values" a lot of people will finally wake up and see what they've done by using trying to inject their own religious values into the workings of the state.


No, not so much.
But a lot of people will be awfully pissed at having coddled and "embraced" Islam.




thishereboi -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 6:24:51 AM)

quote:

Theocracy in America won't come as a stealthy sharia takeover, it'll come in the bills crafted by the "religious right" in our own backyard.


Was it the religious right that stopped gay marriage in CA? It seems to me that a lot of people on the left came out for that election and from the results a lot of them voted against gay marriage. Do you honestly believe that the christians on the left embrace homosexuals? Now I understand the the ones on the right are much louder about things, but their feeling about god and homosexuals is the same as the ones on the left who are being so quiet. Detroit has hundreds of liberal churches. How many of them do you think would be ok with performing a marriage between two men?




GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 7:41:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
I don't think that anyone wants to turn the US into a Muslim theocracy or replace constitutional law with sharia law.

I really liked your post but have to disagree with this part, there are people who have expressly stated this as their goal.




mnottertail -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 8:03:56 AM)

If so, they are a smaller party than the teabaggers, and will not garner the seats in government to make it so.

Nothing but blowholing by a select few.




Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 9:45:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
I don't think that anyone wants to turn the US into a Muslim theocracy or replace constitutional law with sharia law.

I really liked your post but have to disagree with this part, there are people who have expressly stated this as their goal.


Who?

When? Where? Links?




GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 9:53:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
You have to admit that since the 60's progressive movement the U.S. has seen quite a dramatic rise in STD's, teen pregnancies, drug abuse, and violent crime, but there can't be any correlation, now can there?

First of all I don't think the word you were looking for is correlation. Correlation does not prove causation. For instance there is a correlation between ice cream sales and murder rates but one in no way causes the other.

Second, when it comes to for instance teen pregnancies the opposite of what you are saying is true:

"The rate of teen childbearing in the United States has fallen steeply since the late 1950s, from an all time high of 96 births per 1,000 women aged 15-19 in 1957 to an all time low of 49 in 2000 (see chart below). Birthrates fell steadily throughout the 1960s and 1970s; they were fairly steady in the early 1980s and then rose sharply between 1988 and 1991 before declining throughout the 1990s. In recent years, this downward trend has occurred among teens of all ages and races."
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html

When it comes to violent crimes the picture is also not what you're describing, I didn't get around to checking STD's and drugs but hopefully at this point you can see the issue with not fact checking the ideas you are basing your beliefs on.


[image]local://upfiles/566126/151A4616CB28478BBBFD121847F4FC95.gif[/image]




GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 10:02:14 AM)

Well, since the total number of Muslims in the U.S. comes to 0.8 percent of the population, that's not something we're going to need to worry about any time soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population




GotSteel -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 10:07:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
There is only one group on this thread that is being pushy about their belief system, and it isn't theists...

Well there's the conservatives who want to stop the "ground zero mosque", there's some of us advocating that the first amendment not be castrated, those...wait I'm already past one. But even if there was only one group so what?






subrob1967 -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 10:19:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GambitLeBeau

Would you agree with parents having total control over what their children are taught?

Faith schools teach their religion like fact- surely this needs to be moderated, and a real religious education brought in as standard, across the world? Indoctrination should not be tolerated.


Obviously if the parents decided to send their kids to a faith based school, they would approve of the curriculum, since they're private, and the parents chose to pay the tuition's...Dontcha think?




Musicmystery -> RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 (8/19/2010 10:23:44 AM)

I wonder what this conservative pundant's take is on offending the families affected by 9/11:

[image]http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/6/25/633814879475000585-cunt.jpg[/image]




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