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Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 4:46:15 AM

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I am not saying this is all subs and hope it is not the majority, but is there a reason that some subs see politness as weakness when it comes to first impreasions, personaly i treat everyone with the level of respect i expect to recieve back from them when i first say hello but i get the impreasion some subs see that as "he must be soft" is there a reason for this, or something i am just not getting?
Thanks

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 4:58:03 AM

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No matter what you do or say, someone is going to like it and someone is going to not like it.

The only way to win is be yourself, and let the chips fall where they may.

FHky

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 5:05:18 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YoungWYorksDom

I am not saying this is all subs and hope it is not the majority, but is there a reason that some subs see politness as weakness when it comes to first impreasions, personaly i treat everyone with the level of respect i expect to recieve back from them when i first say hello but i get the impreasion some subs see that as "he must be soft" is there a reason for this, or something i am just not getting?
Thanks

In general, manners and societal respect are a good thing, shows someone who was brought up to respect all people........being polite, whether a Dom or Domme, is in no way a sign of weakness. The sad thing is that in today's society, societal politeness has been thrown to the curb. Nowadays if you say hello to a stranger on the street, they look at you like you are nuts....you smile at someone when holding a door open and they think you have alterior motives....hunting a parking space at Christmas time, oh good Lord all common curtesy goes right out the window

So, Young, you just be yourself, and in time the right sub will come along and see you for what you truly are, a gentleman and a Dom

Happy searching!

_____________________________

Peace
His slut

"Your firm hand and compassionate heart are what guide me in my journey....I am Yours, Sir" His slut

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 5:08:15 AM

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I would never see politeness in a Dom as a sign of weakness. In fact just the opposite. If a Dom could not be polite in early communication I would see that as a bad sign showing lack of any kind of respect. Comminication is so important and who wants to communicate with an arrogant, rude person?
We should all just be ourselves and if anyone does not like that then they arent the O/one for you.

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 5:24:51 AM

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I agree with what collaredheart said.. however I would add:

If a Dom cannot be polite IN ALL COMMUNICATIONS, not just the ones that make that "first impression".. then forget him. I give what I get.

Young, give what you expect to get. At the end of the day, you'll be able to sleep knowing you are a gentleman, a chivalrous Man and a kind soul. Those qualities are priceless and are qualities I've yet to find in a Man I will kneel to. D/s isn't about bad manners and arrogance, it's about compassion, strength of conviction and confidence.

Good luck!

_____________________________

~The true measure of a Man is to notice what He does when no one else is looking, when He is guided by His own sense of right and wrong.~

(in reply to collaredheart)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 5:28:48 AM

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However, there are also some Doms who see politeness as a sign of weakness.

(in reply to MontaukDaisies)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 5:48:40 AM

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In all honesty, it all depends upon what it is each party is truly looking for. If it pertains to a fantasy realm D/s relationship and/or encounter, well, this is a whole other story in and of itself. For the simple fact is that there are far too many individuals just beginning their journey into this wonderful and very fulfilling lifestyle only to encounter a situation that can never sustain a long-term endeavor. For many various reasons, there are far too many (particularly cyberspace) that have this fantasy of being ordered around (or ordering someone around) in any manner they like with no regard for what is good and fair and true.

This type behavoir will soon find itself out as soon as the first meeting or two takes place. Just as soon as the realilty of D/s relationship sets in, the disaster begins.

Speaking as a dominant man, it's so sad but true that there are few of us who actually have what it takes to be successful dominants. Furthermore, 'real' dominants are actually quite rare (when compared to the vast numbers of Doms on any given online site), as there are far more folks that merely have the desire to dominate someone sadomasochistically than those that actually can do it well. It is hard work and requires plenty of pateince, loving, knowledge, self-control, and understanding right along with the fulfillment one has by truly controlling another. However, the rewards are most definitely worth every ounce of energy put forth into making such a relationship work.

But on the other hand, if any individual is only living out some fantasy fulfillment safely from the other side of a computer screen, then none of these characteristics and attributes will apply. Simply amazing it is.

< Message edited by MrMister -- 4/20/2006 6:09:50 AM >

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 5:51:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: YoungWYorksDom

I am not saying this is all subs and hope it is not the majority, but is there a reason that some subs see politness as weakness when it comes to first impreasions, personaly i treat everyone with the level of respect i expect to recieve back from them when i first say hello but i get the impreasion some subs see that as "he must be soft" is there a reason for this, or something i am just not getting?
Thanks

i see politeness as a MUST! i see respect as a MUST also.

It all begins with communication and friendship in these eyes.

i keep trying to figure out how people have relationships without being friends first. So please just be yourself.

unquenchable

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 6:00:15 AM

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If I may flip the question though, I struggle with being polite and yet firm. For example, on a first meet the man would not stop groping me and I kept saying "No" but I think he heard my politeness as indecision. I finally had to get up and walk out on the movie--I've never done such a thing and I hated being rude, but I didn't know how to be gracious and not be mauled. (I actually think, and this is off topic, but I think this issue (polite versus indecisive) leads to a huge, huge amount of miscommunication and grief in vanilla dating as well. The whole "No means no" campaign is linked, I think, in part to some women trying to be polite and some men reading that as indecisive.)

(in reply to unquenchable)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 6:35:30 AM

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Because people form steretypical ideas of who should act in what ways based on their orientation. Most submissive women like a balance of a perfect gentleman and an absolute cad. Finding that perfect balance is tenuous and, usually, a waste of time.

They want to be swept away, taken (to their fantasy turret), forced (in the way that always hits their g-spot), and used (in the way that makes them wet.)

Just be yourself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 12:42:33 PM

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I don't necessarily think that some people see politeness as weakness. I do, however, think that sometimes politeness is a way that a more rude person pushes the boundaries of another, believing there will be no repercussions for that behavior. On the flip side, there are those who use politeness to hide the fact they can't say no, and so by being pushy, you get what you want. Tends to make it fun for others who are respectful and polite but tolerate no crap from others.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/20/2006 1:01:45 PM

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"but is there a reason that some subs see politness as weakness when it comes to first impreasions"

Yes there is, its called ignorance.

(in reply to starymists)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/22/2006 1:37:56 AM

mons

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Greeeting

Is your question why do male submissive think they
must be polite or why are they so polite? I have a slave who is polite but always
very strong, if we are walking somewhere I know for sure in
my mind in heart, he would protect me, so his polites ways
does not make him weak! Now I am a Domme who is polite and kind'
I was over a friend home today, another one of her friend came over and this
woman (both have no ideal i am a domme) she was so rude. She even said
" I do not care what you think" and this was in a mean rude tone. But
i didnot repond to her, this does not make me weak for being polite and
just getting up to leave. Being kind is a wonderful trait but many people think
kindness is a weakness, that is such a wrong way to think. It is the kinds ones
who hold the stick :)
I wish you the best

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/22/2006 2:14:42 AM

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Firstly, welcome to the boards, nice to see a fellow Brit active.

As for politeness getting viewed as weakness, well I'm afraid that is simply par for the course from certain elements. I have came to simply viewing it as clear sign of incompatabilitys in the type of D/s relationship they and I are looking for. Sorry folks, a Dom I maybe but humourless CP robot I am not. Simply shake your head and move on.

Good news though, there are subs, yes even in the UK, who recognise that politeness and not being part of the "Kneel bitch" brigade doesn't mean you lack strength and discipline. Some even realise that you are more likely to have that strength if you are self aware and secure enough not to come across like Darth Vader in your initial mail.

Chin up, keep trying and good luck.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/22/2006 5:56:37 AM

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Hello and welcome YoungWYorksDom,

I personally prefer Dommes/Doms who are down to earth and polite, in my eyes politeness in itself is an honorable trait although some people may misunderstand it as a "weakness" then "more fool them"

Stay true to yourself and stay polite

manners cost nothing...

_____________________________

~Discomfort, endlessly has pulled itself upon me~
~Distracting/reacting~
~Against my will i stand beside my own reflection~
~It's haunting how i can't seem to find myself again..
"Linkin Park"
TSR-560-087-333

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politeness as weakness - 4/22/2006 6:23:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirCumsSlut

In general, manners and societal respect are a good thing, shows someone who was brought up to respect all people........being polite, whether a Dom or Domme, is in no way a sign of weakness. The sad thing is that in today's society, societal politeness has been thrown to the curb.
Happy searching!

I agree slut, but would also add that I feel that we have gone a bit further, as a society, even than that. In a post on another board in this forum, there was a discussion about 'strong slaves' where a bit of this concept of the perception of 'strong' and 'weak' was discussed.

I think that it is not just politeness but kindness in general which has come to be viewed as a 'nicety' which is born from a weak person. Our society has lost, in many many ways, the value of quiet and kindness (and I wold put politeness under that umbrella). We are bombarded, everywhere with pugnacious queues which point us toward a very aggressive, selfish and sort of cut-throat way of life being not only an option, but the 'strong' or smart way to live your life. It is in our news, or media, our entertainments... And we are very much, products of social condition.

Somewhere along the lines we lost sight of the idea that to be quiet, to offer kindness (which takes just as much energy as rudeness), and to be considerate of others instead of just me me me, is a very strong place to be. Why that has happened, I think, is that we have lost sight of the fact that if you are doing this, offering kindness, offering politeness, not for what you will get back, not for some return of investment policy, but just because, that is the person YOU want to be, that is something YOU think is the right thing to do, there is great strength in it. Because if you are not dependent upon getting something back(which is really what kindness is about), there is no hurt if it is not reciprocated.. there is no weak spot.

So really I think the problem is not so much that people think being polite is viewed as being weak, but that being kind in general is both misunderstood as weakness, and not adopted as a whole due to the societal reconditioning of what strength is, and how to 'get it'.

< Message edited by puella -- 4/22/2006 6:32:30 AM >

(in reply to SirCumsSlut)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/22/2006 6:38:04 AM

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YoungWYorksDom asks:

"...is there a reason that some subs see politness as weakness when it comes to first impreasions, personaly i treat everyone with the level of respect i expect to recieve back from them when i first say hello but i get the impreasion some subs see that as "he must be soft" is there a reason for this, or something i am just not getting?"

I, too, endure this misconception, at times. It indicates a misconception of the nature and workings of power, as well as some insight about those who feel as you've described.

The reasoning, I believe, goes like this: A person in power doesn't "have to" show respect or be courteous, to those in positions of less power. Therefore, to some people, being polite implies a status in the pecking order that requires you to ingratiate yourself to others,

- whereas failure to show respect, social graces, or sensitivity to others, is the only sure sign that you are "on top."

This attitude, in turn, implies to me a very impoverished understanding of power.

For one thing, it implies that a person would never "lower themselves" to showing respect or consideration for others, unless they had to, or if it got them something. It implies the belief that people view acting rude, inconsiderate, disrespectful as an opportunity, to be exploited.

Could there possibly be any reason a person would behave in a polite and respectful way, even if they have the power not to?

I think of my father. He was certainly alpha. He obviously had personal power, but didn't flaunt it or wave it about like a stick. Power wielded with grace and respect and social savvy, i.e., charm and persuasion, is power under control. Power under control is more powerful than rudeness and disrespect, which are childish, self-indulgent, and lacking in self control.

My father literally inspired hero worship, even among other grown men. Women loved to do things for him and men wanted to impress him. Why? Because he was charming and they wanted to be rewarded with his smile and laugh. Because he made them feel seen and appreciated by him, they wanted his attention. Because they felt empowered, by him, to find a way to please him.

And when he was pleased, he made them compadres in that, he made them feel powerful, too, - "we know what's good, we're in accord."

Without any other authority than his personality and presence, he was motivating people to make him "alpha."

I picture a certain memory of my father. We were in a school office, waiting for help with some bureaucratic stuff, in a long, slow-moving line. The place was understaffed and chaotic. My father sat, with his hat in his hands, stood up whenever the women there approached him, spoke in a low, relaxed tone, smiled when they seemed to offer some relief for our needs. He didn't act submissive or weak. He did imply, by his manner, that he was in their capable hands. Respect, acknowledgement, charm. Soon, I think everyone there was working on our paperwork, and coming out from behind the counter to bring it directly to my father, while others still waited.

So, Young Dom, it would be fortunate for us to find more people who appreciate the power of the social graces.

Meanwhile, perhaps I can get a few calling cards made up, featuring me baring my teeth in disdain, while brandishing an unreasonably large bullwhip. "You see how haughty I am?" it will say. Young Dom, you may want to don a Snidely Whiplash moustache and cross your arms and frown. Make sure the pic's an upshot, so people can see that they are beneath you!

Or maybe we're both just looking for someone with a bit more depth and subtlety, and appreciation for the same.

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politeness as weakness - 4/22/2006 6:52:10 AM

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Puella said:

"...we have lost sight of the fact that if you are doing this, offering kindness, offering politeness, not for what you will get back, not for some return of investment policy, but just because, that is the person YOU want to be, that is something YOU think is the right thing to do, there is great strength in it. Because if you are not dependent upon getting something back(which is really what kindness is about), there is no hurt if it is not reciprocated.. there is no weak spot.

"So really I think the problem is not so much that people think being polite is viewed as being weak, but that being kind in general is both misunderstood as weakness, and not adopted as a whole due to the societal reconditioning of what strength is, and how to 'get it'."

Puella, this is so deep and humane and to the point, I really appreciate it.

(in reply to puella)

RE: Is there a reason some see politness as weakness - 4/22/2006 7:00:00 AM

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quote:

I am not saying this is all subs and hope it is not the majority, but is there a reason that some subs see politness as weakness when it comes to first impreasions, personaly i treat everyone with the level of respect i expect to recieve back from them when i first say hello but i get the impreasion some subs see that as "he must be soft" is there a reason for this, or something i am just not getting?

Hmmmm .... and I would ask the question, why do some dominants forget politeness .. that it is somehow beneath them .. cause gosh! why should they say "please" when everything should be laid at their feet? And that's sad .. for indeed .. <evil grin> politeness sends a shiver through me. I am compelled to do more when asked nicely to do so, rather than told harshly.

As for why some might see it as weakness .. hmm I'm going to take a few guesses. My first would be that they are testing. Could be that they were brought up in a household where impoliteness reigned, or that they have a fantasy that a dom should be some cretin, dragging the girl off by their hair heheh. Or they have some axe to grind, and you appear to be a good a patsy as any.

In any case, if they take offense with your politeness, I don't know .. that's just weird. It is unfortunate that politeness seems to have become as outdated as 8-track tapes .. and not confined to the uber doms.

I apologize for this behaviour, and hope I never exhibit it myself.

Enjoy the day!

< Message edited by foxnotinsox -- 4/22/2006 7:02:32 AM >

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oxox,foX
Veni vidi veni

(in reply to YoungWYorksDom)

RE: Is there a reason some see politeness as weakness - 4/22/2006 7:02:39 AM

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Thank you, and I loved the story of your father. I could feel your great affection and admiration for him in your words.

(in reply to MadameMarque)

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