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Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 12:21:33 PM   
AlwaysLisa


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According to Wiki, in regard to the word "Fiction":

Fiction (Latin: fictum, "created") is any form of narrative which deals, in part or in whole, with events that are not factual, but rather, imaginary and invented by its author(s). Although fiction often describes a major branch of literary work, it is also applied to theatrical, cinematic, documental, and musical work. In contrast to this is non-fiction, which deals exclusively in factual events (e.g.: biographies, histories). Semi-fiction is fiction implementing a great deal of non-fiction,[1] e.g. a fictional description based on a true story.

With that being said...could the Bible be called a work of fiction, or semi fiction?  

No one was around then to refute, we are taking the written word as truth, how can we know for sure?   In a semi-fiction piece of work, obviously there are some factual occurances, backed up by evidence, hard core evidence.   If these don't exist, does the book then become a work of fiction?

It's over 100 degrees outside, so I have time to ponder some things :)

Lisa 
(Before all the religious folks start imploding, please take this with a bit of humour, along with an actual question)

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 12:31:02 PM   
Aneirin


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I have heard the bible referred to as a book of fairy stories

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 12:35:05 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

According to Wiki, in regard to the word "Fiction":

Fiction (Latin: fictum, "created") is any form of narrative which deals, in part or in whole, with events that are not factual, but rather, imaginary and invented by its author(s). Although fiction often describes a major branch of literary work, it is also applied to theatrical, cinematic, documental, and musical work. In contrast to this is non-fiction, which deals exclusively in factual events (e.g.: biographies, histories). Semi-fiction is fiction implementing a great deal of non-fiction,[1] e.g. a fictional description based on a true story.

With that being said...could the Bible be called a work of fiction, or semi fiction?  

No one was around then to refute, we are taking the written word as truth, how can we know for sure?   In a semi-fiction piece of work, obviously there are some factual occurances, backed up by evidence, hard core evidence.   If these don't exist, does the book then become a work of fiction?

It's over 100 degrees outside, so I have time to ponder some things :)

Lisa 
(Before all the religious folks start imploding, please take this with a bit of humour, along with an actual question)


Is it a work of fiction, or semi fiction? Or someone trying to slam/bash the religion? So what is your religion, AlwaysLisa, since you brought the topic up?

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 12:41:42 PM   
DCWoody


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The Bible is a collection (a differing collection) of separate 'books', some of which are clearly non-fiction (ie johns letters), some of which are clearly myths/fiction (ie noahs ark). Much of it is written as real but either outright frauds (although the council that defined the bible in the first place tried to exclude all the fraud they could detect), or misunderstandings, mistranslations (Unicorns), pseudohistories (King Arthur vs King David)....or just stuff that someone thought was fact at the time, but turned out to be dead wrong (number of legs on a roach).

To write off the entire thing as fiction is incorrect, to claim it's all true is delusional (but what's new for religious people)...you have to take it book by book, and for much of it there is no clear answer.

< Message edited by DCWoody -- 8/17/2010 12:45:58 PM >

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 12:54:54 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody
To write off the entire thing as fiction is incorrect, to claim it's all true is delusional (but what's new for religious people)...you have to take it book by book, and for much of it there is no clear answer.


Does there have to be a clear answer? As many of the problems we have today, were just as common back then. Some concepts, whether true or not (meaning, to have actually happen), is not so much the point, as what can be learned. For instance: The Golden Rule. If you torture, murder, rape, pillage, and destroy on a common basis; should anyone be nice to you in the future?

How about forgiveness? Is that not an important lesson to learn?

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 3:54:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

to claim it's all true is delusional (but what's new for religious people)

In fairness, of course, your notion that people who are religious believe it's all true is also a delusion.

K.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 3:58:27 PM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

To write off the entire thing as fiction is incorrect, to claim it's all true is delusional (but what's new for religious people)...


I consider myself religious. I dont consider the bible to be anything more than a beautifully written story filled with both fact and fiction.

Soooooooooooooooo i guess that makes you delusional as well.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 4:29:12 PM   
DCWoody


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@Kirata: That'd be a mistaken assumption, not a delusion, IMO.
@Tazzy: No.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 5:24:02 PM   
AlwaysLisa


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Hi joether,

quote:

Is it a work of fiction, or semi fiction? Or someone trying to slam/bash the religion? So what is your religion, AlwaysLisa, since you brought the topic up?


I don't have one.  I have read many and find solice in a few, but there is not "one" that I follow.   Being raised strict catholic until I was old enough to ask questions about things that didn't make sense...I have gone my own path since then. 

I asked that people take my question with a grain of humour, as well as a question...I am not slamming or bashing anything.  Geesh.  Are you always so negative?




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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/17/2010 5:45:44 PM   
Jeffff


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There is no future in "positive" down here.


You get used to it.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/18/2010 12:16:52 AM   
Termyn8or


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"(ie noahs ark)"

Embellished though, it could be true at the root. If indeed the Earth's crust does rotate every so many millenia, it would be possible that there was a great flood.

Noah could have been a very early astronomist, and between what he saw in the sky he decided to save his people from the flood. Obviously he couldn't save them all, but his insight drove him to build the arc, gather up pairs of humans and other animals and ride the storm out so to speak. This happens very gradually folks and is almost undiscernable from normal fluctuations in climate. However with lodestone Noah may have found a way to detect it and acted accordingly seeing true north deviating from magnetic north faster and faster. There were lodestones in the ground as well as stars in the sky, and that is all one would need really to detect that a major shift was about to occur. I will not assert the human mind was not as developed then, in fact I assert the opposite because they had almost no technology whatsoever yet survived.

And add in the fact that Noah have been very devoted to his faith like my ex-boss who attributes his success in business to God. Add it up.

The way I see it, there is no way the flood, even under these circumstances would encompass the entire globe. There were still mountains and other places of high elevation that remained stable enough during this event. Noah may have just seen it coming because he didn't have a TV to drain his brain, he had time to think about what he was looking at.

It is possible. But with the embellishment over the millenia it has become an anectdotal myth, then what is the truth, nobody was there. Some may want to disect the timeline of the Bible but that holds no water. (no pun this time)

On to Moses. The parting of the sea. Maybe he knew just where to be and they had to tread a bit of water, but being smart he knew when the tide was going to rise is just the right point in time for that to happen. Perhaps he saw an alignment of the visible planets coming around and banked on it and won. When it ebbed the unusually low tide revealed and undersea hill they could travel upon. Knowing that the planets were moving he got to just the right time and drown the soldiers coming to get the Jews. These people were not stupid, remember they survived under some circumstances that woud kill most of us today.

I am not saying these events happened every day obviously. But certain people were smart enough to use their limited information, compared to what we have today, and actually do something. That was quite noteworthy, and therefore became a story to be told. And told and told and told and told. This results in these incredible claims now, and I assert that they may be factual in origin. I don't believe, but I will not assert that they are completely untrue. Just that they have been embellished so much as to become unbelievable.

Let's do Jesus. Fed the masses with one cracker and a glass of wine. Well, in my younger days I could work a five day week and not eat and be just fine. With His persuasive powers he might have not passed that cracker around, just took one bite. Who knows what His exact words were ?

Being that persuasive He might have just made them not hungry, maybe they all ate the day before and it didn't hurt them to skip a meal. Tell me it can't be so.

I found very few other things in the Bible so incredulous, most of it is anecdotal about sacrifices, people's lives and children, and all kinds of things. Stories that do contain wisdom. But that does not make me believe.

The olman read the Bible cover to cover and had something to say about those people living to be 300 years old and all that. He believed that the environment was so much better then that it was not all that uncommon. As I have asserted, they say they have increased the human lifespan but I doubt it. If the figures were unmixed, it may be found that except in times of war peole did live alot longer. He also asserted than when Cain slew Abel it was alot of work because people would heal very quickly back then. Killing was real work he said.

I can't write all this off as nonsense because I simply wasn't there.

T

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/18/2010 6:43:00 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Does there have to be a clear answer? As many of the problems we have today, were just as common back then. Some concepts, whether true or not (meaning, to have actually happen), is not so much the point, as what can be learned. For instance: The Golden Rule. If you torture, murder, rape, pillage, and destroy on a common basis; should anyone be nice to you in the future?

How about forgiveness? Is that not an important lesson to learn?

When it comes to the Bible some of it's statements on morality stand up regardless of whether they came from a divine being or a homeless cult leader. For others the truth about the existence of God and his nature really does matter. Here for instance:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." Leviticus 20:13 NAB

If this little pearl of wisdom actually came down from on high or is just the bigotry of a bronze age religious leader really REALLY does matter.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/18/2010 5:10:08 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Does there have to be a clear answer? As many of the problems we have today, were just as common back then. Some concepts, whether true or not (meaning, to have actually happen), is not so much the point, as what can be learned. For instance: The Golden Rule. If you torture, murder, rape, pillage, and destroy on a common basis; should anyone be nice to you in the future?

How about forgiveness? Is that not an important lesson to learn?

When it comes to the Bible some of it's statements on morality stand up regardless of whether they came from a divine being or a homeless cult leader. For others the truth about the existence of God and his nature really does matter. Here for instance:

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." Leviticus 20:13 NAB

If this little pearl of wisdom actually came down from on high or is just the bigotry of a bronze age religious leader really REALLY does matter.



Of course it matters, because those that take the literal interpretation or instruction of the bible then become a threat to others. Should a devout believer respond to the instruction in the bible and then take action against biblicly described crimes, what can be their defence in a court of law after the fact. If they were to say as a devout believer, they were following the instruction in the holy manual of belief of their religion, what stands higher, the law of the land or the law of the belief. Now as we understand certain countries have declared that they are an x believing nation, then how do they fare when it comes to belief as is common to the declared national belief, or the law of the land, bearing in mind the deity's supposed law and the law of the land might be totally different.

Islam has Sharia law, it generally comes first and anything national after, so believers in those countries know where they stand in regards to their devotion, but same does not hold true with so called Christian nations to the point where it might be God's law follows behind the law made by man and there the dilemma of the believer. So in reality God's law means shit in Christian countries, as it has no power.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/18/2010 5:50:54 PM   
Elisabella


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I think mythology would be a better word than fiction.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/19/2010 6:22:41 AM   
GotSteel


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For somethings but the made up historical events in the Bible would certainly count as fiction.

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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/19/2010 6:36:41 AM   
Archer


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To be Fiction the authors would have to know and or believe that the information was untrue.Now considering that we had how many generations where the stories of the judeo christian history was purely an oral history, before it was eventually written down. So pretty much every story before Moses is likely to have been passed on verbally for generations as truth, so the thought that the writer could have been "just making shit up" is silly. Now once we get to Moses we start to have some questions, where we have to decide what we want to believe is "The Truth". Did Moses the Law Giver, just make that stuff up? or was he divinely inspired, or was he given the law through revelation or what?



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RE: Bible...as written by Ray Bradbury - 8/19/2010 7:52:43 AM   
OohAahMrs


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Not that Ray Bradbury?

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