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DCWoody -> RE: Cognitive Dissonance and the avoidance of Facts (8/21/2010 11:07:51 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: popeye1250
quote:
ORIGINAL: DCWoody
Progressive (wanting to move on, constantly improve, change things, etc) is the opposite of conservative (respect traditions, don't mess with things that work ya might break them, etc).
Liberalism (do what ya like within reason) opposes authoritarianism (do what I/god say).
None of the 4 are necessarily tied to either left or right wing, but authoritarianism usually mixes with conservatism because tradition overlaps hugely with religion....and conservative generally = lower taxes, so right wing....because everyone likes to think there were less taxes back in the day....which is true if you go back far enough. The USSR vs US thing that was going also helped this.
However, there are multiple examples of both left & right being both authoritarian & liberal, progressive & conservative....if you really have to use such broad labels, IMO it's a mistake to talk as if progressive always= left wing.....and it's definitely wrong to conflate liberal & left.
DC, yes, there's a huge chasm between "liberal" and "left." I've made that distinction in here many times.
The term "progressive" is confusing as Hillary Clinton not too long ago reffered to herself as being a "progressive" when less than a year before most thought of her as "liberal." Did she have an epiphany or something?
I think the "left wing" and "right wing" probably comprise maybe 2-3% (each) of the population and that's certainly reflected in this site. They seem to be "close cousins" in their thinking.
I must have a good shot of "progressiveness" in me as I want to "change things" too!
And there's no mention of "populists" in this thread, I like that philosophy too, "if it's good for (The People) it's good!" B.O. could use a good dose of "populism", hanging around with and taking money from big bankers and Wall St insiders won't get him re-elected. Especially when so many are unemployed or underemployed.
No dude, ya've completely missed my point. These labels describe positions...or averages of groups of positions around a similar theme, not people. You can not say 'leftist' and describe someones entire political position. Left wing & right wing are....as the 'wing' part suggests, directions....the vast majority of america (certainly both parties) is right wing compared to the UK (and the UK is a little further right than much of the continent)....but the democrats are nevertheless the left wing of american politics. Left & right originally translated roughly as reformist/progressive vs conservative, but these days they've moved and blurred so much.....it's best IMO to limit their usuage to the financial size of government. Left meaning higher spending and therefore higher taxes, right lower taxes and therefore lower spending. Aside from the extreme minority who're absolutely happy with everything as it is right now, and a few who have very different ideas about government funding....everyone is either left or right....just some only very slightly so.
It is also possible (common) to be progressive/reformist & liberal, they are not exclusive.
IMO most of america is moderately liberal, (freedom of speech, fuck who ya like, etc) but with a significant more authoritarian minority (the religious anti-gay marriage lot), fairly conservative (change the constitution? not a popular position), and quite a lot further right (although this isn't actually reflected in levels of taxation due to incompetent/disorganised/unrepresentative/corrupt governance) than most of the developed world.
Both usa parties act/campaign populist, although the republicans clearly aren't by hell of a long way. I don't find it a particularly helpful label.
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