The Revenge of Gaia ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> The Revenge of Gaia ? (8/27/2010 8:02:22 AM)

As an aside from independent research scientist James Lovelock's work whilst working for NASA in the 1960's seeking a methodology for detecting possible life on other planets, Lovelock presented a perhaps not so much of a new way of looking at our planet, but certainly different to scientific theory of the age and much of what was thought due to personal belief of the day. He after a suggestion from his Nobel Prize for literature friend William Golding called his earth feedback hypothesis; The Gaia Theory after the ancient Greek primordial Goddess of the Earth ; Gaia

Gaia Theory on Wikipedia


Enter global warming;

If Lovelock's Earth Feedback hypothesis has any merit, then the Revenge of Gaia is upon us, all we can do now is prepare ourselves and learn to adapt, for there are big changes coming, and with that, perhaps changes that are due to the planet as a whole, should we welcome these changes as progress where it is so needed, or bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away ?

I am suggesting the changes are due, because when we started to cut down forests for building materials, fuel and land, and otherwise pillage our enviroment for the things we through history needed to thrive, we didn't know the eventual consequences of our actions, but it took until the technological age for us to create the tools to see more clearly what is now irreversible. But if that is correct, then global change as it affects life on this planet is best coming in this age, as we have the knowledge to think and provide the tools to ensure our survival. Hopefully with that will come a much needed change in our human thinking, conserve instead of pillage, the age of permaculture and living in harmony with our surroundings, i.e. low impact living, we are not the only forms of life that are important here.

Excerpt from Lovelock's Revenge of Gaia ;

The Revenge of Gaia

In James Lovelock's 2006 book, The Revenge of Gaia, he argues that the lack of respect humans have had for Gaia, through the damage done to rainforests and the reduction in planetary biodiversity, is testing Gaia's capacity to minimize the effects of the addition of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. This eliminates the planet's negative feedbacks and increases the likelihood of homeostatic positive feedback potential associated with runaway global warming. Similarly the warming of the oceans is extending the oceanic thermocline layer of tropical oceans into the Arctic and Antarctic waters, preventing the rise of oceanic nutrients into the surface waters and eliminating the algal blooms of phytoplankton on which oceanic foodchains depend. As phytoplankton and forests are the main ways in which Gaia draws down greenhouse gases, particularly carbon dioxide, taking it out of the atmosphere, the elimination of this environmental buffering will see, according to Lovelock, most of the earth becoming uninhabitable for humans and other life-forms by the middle of this century, with a massive extension of tropical deserts.

Given these conditions, Lovelock expects human civilization will be hard pressed to survive. He expects the change to be similar to the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum when atmospheric concentration of CO2 was 450 ppm. At that point the Arctic Ocean was 23 °C and had crocodiles in it, with the rest of the world mostly scrub and desert. He says of sustainable development and renewable energy that it came "200 years too late" and that more effort should go into adaptation, including more use of nuclear fission as a viable energy source in the future (unclear reference - clarification needed).

He likens the Kyoto Protocol to the Munich conferences that failed to prevent World War II, including the likelihood that the disaster will cause people to come together in common cause. "We have been through no less than seven of these events as humans...comparable in extent to the change" likely to be wrought by global warming.


He claims that Gaia's self-regulation will likely prevent any extraordinary runaway effects that wipe out life itself, but that humans will survive and be "culled and, I hope, refined."


According to James Lovelock, by 2040, the world population of more than six billion will have been culled by floods, drought and famine. Indeed [t]he people of Southern Europe, as well as South-East Asia, will be fighting their way into countries such as Canada, Australia and Britain.[33]


"By 2040, parts of the Sahara desert will have moved into middle Europe. We are talking about Paris - as far north as Berlin. In Britain we will escape because of our oceanic position."[33]


"If you take the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predictions, then by 2040 every summer in Europe will be as hot as it was in 2003 - between 110F and 120F. It is not the death of people that is the main problem, it is the fact that the plants can't grow — there will be almost no food grown in Europe."[33]


"We are about to take an evolutionary step and my hope is that the species will emerge stronger. It would be hubris to think humans as they now are God's chosen race. [sic]"[33]


Lovelock believes it is too late to repair the damage.[33]


Just a personal thought, I wonder where religion will figure in all of this, in particular the Judeo-Christian- Muslim beliefs, could we see a return to what is in effect a form of paganism, earth centred religions, we worship the Earth, Gaia as it is it that sustains us.




DCWoody -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (8/27/2010 9:38:36 AM)

"If you take the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predictions, then by 2040 every summer in Europe will be as hot as it was in 2003 - between 110F and 120F. It is not the death of people that is the main problem, it is the fact that the plants can't grow — there will be almost no food grown in Europe."

Oh that's a reliable source right there. Increased global temperatures will (if they happen) increase the potential food production of the earth, it's the rise in sea level that's the problem.

His description in general is bollocks, the sahara exists due to lack of rain fall, not high temperatures...for a time during the hottest period post glaciers it was fertile and supported a (for the time) large human population. In previous geological times when it's been warmer than now the planet was more tropical, not more desert....this is generally refered to as climate optimum....although a google of this term will take ya to the global warming argument using it for the warm post-glacial period, whereas I'm more thinking of prior to the ice age altogether.




Hillwilliam -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (8/27/2010 11:29:34 AM)

Recent (the last 4000 years) desertification is linked a lot more to poor agricultural practices than any change in climate especially in the northern half of Africa and SW Asia.  Due to modern agricultural and soil management practices, I seriously doubt that the Sahara has potential to spread into Europe.




DCWoody -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (8/27/2010 11:36:45 AM)

To some extent.

The Sahara went full desert ~6300 BC due to reduced rain fall (due to the cooling well known of the time). It's what precipitated the mass migration to the nile, leading to the whole neccesity-invention thing for intense farming of the nile region, and the rise of Egypt as a major power.....or more accurately perhaps, a rich swathe of land which any upcoming power in the region conquered ASAP.




THELADY -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (8/27/2010 8:01:38 PM)

6300 bc, pre industrial........

this earth has been through several ice and global warming cycles.....all pre man made.......

now suddenly  man is going to cause us to burn up in another 30 years,   as if we have used up all the available space and left nothing but co2 in our wake..... according to science the temps  have risen less than 1 degree(and thats questionable, being as a couple years ago it was found that there was mistakes in the computer programs that calculated it) but in the next 30 its going to shoot right up there!!  excuse Me, anybody hear about climategate?....damn My brain, global warming,  a liberal belief, there for true!


Obama's science czar was bemoaning a coming of an ice age in the 70-'s, said it was going to freeze all the way down to N.Y. but he has seen the light of the coming rise in temps!

this hype and fear  is what is making  Gore rich while he laughs in one of his many  mansions  flying his private jet all over the world trying to save mankind, he wears a white hat, he wouldn't lie, he's such a good man to  give it all up just to save us!!.









Hillwilliam -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 5:23:13 AM)

Actually, one of the worst case scenarios of a warming phase (whether anthropogenic or not) WOULD be similar to an ice age in Northern Europe due to the collapse of the North Atlantic Gyre.




pahunkboy -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 9:39:08 AM)

Someday we will all die. 




Lordandmaster -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 9:47:44 AM)

Guys, Gaia is an abstraction. Scientists don't really believe that there's an earth goddess named Gaia. She doesn't have a will and she doesn't seek revenge. If we manage to make ourselves extinct, it will be because of what we've done to destroy ourselves, not because we have offended a vengeful earth goddess.




SorceressJ -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 9:49:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Someday we will all die. 


Well yes, pahunkboy; this is an inescapable natural fact. So is climate change. That being said, it's a hell of a thing these days to stay informed and decide what is bullshit and what isn't. I do in fact feel that 1) humanity is exacerbating the state of Gaia, and that 2) the Earth is alive, that Nature is self-balancing and takes measures to correct itself, and that humanity had better take it's own measures if anyone cares to want to live through it. My [sm=2cents.gif].

[image]local://upfiles/1044097/70803E2881DE47899BB99F07C7633DC5.jpg[/image]




mnottertail -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 9:51:45 AM)

Gaia's gonna have your sack for talking like that Lam.

LOL.

Ron 




Aneirin -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 11:06:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Guys, Gaia is an abstraction. Scientists don't really believe that there's an earth goddess named Gaia. She doesn't have a will and she doesn't seek revenge. If we manage to make ourselves extinct, it will be because of what we've done to destroy ourselves, not because we have offended a vengeful earth goddess.


Yeah, just like Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and er God.




Sanity -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 11:17:13 AM)


A hell of a lot of leftists act like they believe Gaia exists as a real goddess

[image]http://www.paleothea.com/Pictures/Gaia.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Guys, Gaia is an abstraction. Scientists don't really believe that there's an earth goddess named Gaia. She doesn't have a will and she doesn't seek revenge. If we manage to make ourselves extinct, it will be because of what we've done to destroy ourselves, not because we have offended a vengeful earth goddess.


Yeah, just like Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and er God.




mnottertail -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 11:22:02 AM)

A hell of a lotta rightists believe drooling imbiciles, even after they've been proven incorrect in every case,  we all have foibles, Tom.




Fellow -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 2:15:38 PM)

I add a comment about the rain forest.
It should be preserved because of its natural beauty and huge variety of different species. Cutting down rain forest contributes to global cooling not warming. The carbon balance of mature rain forest is close to zero (nighttime emission balances out daytime intake), but it evaporates large amount of water vapor (potent greenhouse gas) into the air.





Aneirin -> RE: The Revenge of Gaia ? (9/1/2010 5:35:52 PM)

To be honest I don't care how beautiful something is for humans to look at, that is immaterial, what concerns me , is what things are in this world that are there to be beneficial to life, not just human life, but animal life, life of the mammals and anything else that draws sustenance from that thing. As myself an earthy kind of person I see meat as animal, if we possess meat for animal, then we are animal, nothing else ,matters, we are part of the animal kingdom, religious fancy can go forth and multiply, we are what we are, part of nature. If such a thing should occur that we actually realised what we were, I wonder would we be pleasing ourselves with our enviroment, which incidently is not just our enviroment, we are not the only life form that needs, nor are we that important.




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