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Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 7:48:27 AM

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Joined: 8/29/2004
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Lately I have seen profiles on here of subs that have not only been collared but registered as an owned slave all with in a weeks time.
I don't know about how the rest of you feel but for me this is a disgrace of the lifestyle, first of all there is no possible way that you can know each other well enough to think about a collar yet, not to mention that there is no way you can know if the person you are talking to is truly part of the lifestyle or just a poser.
I think people need to take the time to get to know each other and see if they are what each other seeks before they think of collars, then in time the collar is earned. Now something earned and wanted is valued alot more than a collar that is just tossed around without meaning or true feelings behond it.
I would like to get E/everyones thoughts on this matter and see where they stand on the rapidness of such collarings.

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 7:58:09 AM

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I happen to feel the same way you do on this topic. However I think it is important to remember not all feel the same way we do.
It depends on what a collar means to you. Then also if you believe in the different stages of collars. Training...play, consideration, also the 12 or so other ideas. Since being on this board I've even heard of mentors giving out collars. Ludicrous if you ask me.
The bottom line is, you aren't going to give out your collar to someone who you clearly do not know and have no feelings for. That's all that matters.

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 8:14:17 AM

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Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
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quote:

but for me this is a disgrace of the lifestyle,

I think you should either send those folks the code of conduct for the lifestyle and point out the rules they have broken, or just let them live their own lives.

By the way, watch out because Jerry Falwell probably thinks your life is a disgrace to the lifestyle he thinks you should lead.

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 8:30:41 AM

stormiKnightBEAR

Posts: 306
Joined: 3/14/2004
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This has been a gripe and laughable thing that stormi has seen time and time again.

There is a instance here locally where a Dom got on a platform after one big munch and there are like 100-125 people at the dungeon, he was bellowing out in this loud overbearing voice "i am master so and so...." and then calls this girl up (who was the sister of a former collared slave of his for a whopping 2 or 3 weeks.) He proceeds to strip her down and do the whole collar - leash thing. With her reciting how she was an owned piece of property and slave to him.
(BTW, they had met a whooping week before the collaring). During this ceremony there was alot of covered up laughing and whispers about how this self proclaimed "master" went thru girls like most people change underwear. Surprise, Surprise, none of the partings were ever because "he" did anything wrong, it was always the "girl is no good".

There are collars of service for the weekend given that stormi knows of, due to someone being in service for an event or weekend. In the Dominants mind/thoughts, the wearing of a collar tho temporary is a sign to most that this person (sub/slave) is in service over the weekend and has obligations and therefore unavailable to be of service to others without permission from the primary.

Here in Dallas there are several who are known for their accepting and giving of "velcro" collars.

Training collars/ collars of consideration are not understood by this girl. It seems to stormi that all of this would be done when you were getting to know each other and trying to find out if there is anything there to build upon for a possible relationship.

stormi will be the first to admit that the whole online collaring thing be it bdsm or gor is not understood by her. In stormi's mind the question is how does one serve on the puter? How does a Dominant know that the "slave/sub" is obeying rules laid down or that certain criteria is being done??? Sure there is the whole trust thing but as stormi has said before online... it's easy to be perfect. Online after all, you can push backspace or delete and cut out your mistakes. Online you can be whoever/whatever you wish to be.

That does not make it wrong for those that think it's okay to do this. stormi simply does not understand online doms/subs ect....

For stormi, reality is the only way to live. For stormi life is pretty black and white. Please understand stormi does not say it's wrong for others.

You see stormi could not have asked for a better man to be her Master, be He Gorean or BDSM.
For stormi, the Master that owns her has to have feet of clay, because stormi accepts and realizes that even she is not perfect. For Master to have feet of clay that sometimes means He might make a mistake or that He might forget something is merely being REAL not imaginary.

Although <smiling> to stormi...... Master Bear is as close to perfect as it is possible to be. Because He is infact in His Master/slave relationship, the role of being a Husband to SylverDawn, that of being a role model to young men and women in his work and community, the best that stormi could have ever hoped for or deserved.

Everyone believes that a collar or ko'lar (Gorean) is something different.
Everyone believes that silks and colors are something different.
(stormi is white silk, meaning hands off/owned/not available..... it has nothing to do with being a virgin or not being a virgin in most of the RT world, where red is someone who is protected but available to be owned or to be "used" with the Master's permission).

It's merely a matter of what is best for the Dominant that is in charge and the girl/boy that is involved with the Dom.

Thanks for letting this girl contribute.

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 11:11:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DevotedMaster
I would like to get E/everyones thoughts on this matter and see where they stand on the rapidness of such collarings.

What was appropriate for us was collar along with tattoo, after we'd had a kid together. That's not to lay this down as dogma for anyone else, but it does show how I feel about the place of a collar in our own lives. I think of a collar as a more serious comittment than marriage, because there are additional challenges involved. If you couldn't make a go of it as a vanilla couple, why bother with more difficult trials?

Of course, this is quite irrelevent if you don't want a permanent relationship. It seems funny that there are dozens of options for signalling to strangers what your kink is (color coding, etc), yet there is usually no way of telling a permanent slave from a "slave du jour." Some people use training or consideration collars which may look slightly different, but even then it may be hard to tell.

My slave's usual collar is made of heavy silver chain, locked around her throat with a padlock. It doesn't go with her gold jewelry very well, so I had been thinking about picking up an equivalent chain in 14-18k gold. Maybe that's the only way we can realistically expect to show who is not velcro. Make the collar as expensive as an engagement ring.

< Message edited by NoCalOwner -- 9/27/2004 12:23:55 AM >

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 11:18:17 AM

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From: Washington
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Here are just a few of the previous threads on collars:

collars

collaring a submissive

what is a collar

a question about collars

multiple collars

< Message edited by proudsub -- 9/25/2004 11:19:01 AM >

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 11:28:59 AM

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This is one of my gripes with the whole online D/s thing.

Since BDSM has become more mainstream through the internet, and online relationships have become more frequent, certain standards seem to have been lowered. A lot of new people have entered into the community through the internet with only websites like castlerealm to provide them with some form of "guidance". They learned about "True submissives" (ugh) and collaring ceremonies, and quite basically had their BDSM spoon fed to them by people that may not have had a clue. Another misconception learned by many online submissives was that the collar was the ultimate goal. Without a collar...you're less than valued. So much importance was placed on a piece of virtual steel or leather that was represented by a few letters at the beginning or end of a person's name. Unfortunately, many online relationships fail. The letters are removed from the screen name and there is a big love-in in some chatroom somewhere. They feel less than valued again...so its important to go get another collar....to fill that empty space. Of course, online...its easy to offer a collar. There's not a lot of work for an online dominant to do. No hard responsibilities. How much is that virtual collar valued if there was nothing really put into it? So if the relationship fails...its pretty easy to give out yet another virtual collar.

So what happens when some of the people who learned everything online...moves offline? They display many of the same behaviors that were learned online. The collars are easily given and taken....but...uh oh...there's actual work to do! (Gasp!) She actually has some limits..(Even though online she was a no-limits slave)... okok...I'll stop ranting.

To me, a collar around a girl's neck is a piece of equipment for me to play with. The collar of ownership around her heart is the one I am concerned with.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

[Deleted] - 9/25/2004 12:04:39 PM

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(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/25/2004 6:35:09 PM

stormiKnightBEAR

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Joined: 3/14/2004
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Well said Sir!!

stormi
property of Master Bear

_____________________________

owned white silk slave of TEMJI aka Master Bear

PROUD TO BE TEXAN AND AMERICAN BY BIRTH~
GOD BLESS TEXAS AND THE U.S.A !!!!

(in reply to MrThorns)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/26/2004 3:59:28 AM

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Joined: 9/17/2004
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MrThorns really hit on it for myself, and I shall endeavor to try to explain my reasoning.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who has done this, but I was in adult chat rooms about three or four years before I officially became an adult. I would go into teenager chat rooms and see "ur", "i", "l33t" and other things like that and I would feel just somewhat disgusted. If you ever get to meet me in real life, you'll find that I can be pretty juvenile, but that is mostly for the chance to make friends laugh, and I am actually fairly serious about quite a few things. And so I found my way to get past the bans (which I'll keep to myself to halt such miscreant behavior) and went into the adult rooms.

I'll freely admit that I largely went in there to see all the naughty profiles and cybering and what not. But now, looking back upon it, I would not change what I did, and only because of what I found in some of the Adult sections of Yahoo; the discovery was, of course, BDSM.

At first I simply haunted the rooms and watched, trying to learn it. And then, since I like to help people, I entered the online scene as a submissive. It didn't take me very long, however, to realize that, although I have a very keen interest in making others happy, I found myself more often than not trying to top my Dommes. So, long story short, I eventually found my way to being a Dom.

Now when I did this, D/s was pretty much kept to a few rooms, and the rooms I frequented (usually furry/anthro roleplay rooms) where almost empty of any Dom/mes or subs.

To address the issue more directly than I have been up to this point, at such an early beginning, I used D/s to score myself some easy cyber from people who were looking for the same thing. I became the king of "velcro collars", and when I could manage it, I had a harem of furre slaves/submissives.

I'm not sure when it was, but at some point, I eventually found myself wanting this to be real, and began to look outside the internet for satisfaction. Unfortunately, I come from Montana, and you will find pretty much no D/s scene to speak of (which is depressing, since it is the fourth largest state in the US). So I was forced to keep my interest based online. And I got to watch.

As was addressed, the D/s population, for whatever reason, exploded online, and instead of being the unique and curious Dom, I was simply one of many, and with the experience I did had, I got to see my early self in others, and so I have learned quite a bit.

Coming to Washington is my chance to finally open myself up to the lifestyle that I have been hoping for for a long time, but for now, online has been all I have ever known. And it is so for lots others. MrThorns hit it right on when he labled chat room roleplay to be a major cause of this aberration. Online, you're probably looking more for a quick cyber than anything else, and you grow to learn that a collar is simply a tag, something that says, "Steady cyber partner", and nothing more. And when these people finally find that D/s scene in the real world, the assume it is the same thing. "There's a sexy thing there. I'm going to tag her fun!" The collar is no longer a symbol of a bond, but simply a symbol of identifying, which is easily transferred. What a tragedy.

Please forgive this long post. I tend to enjoy the sight of my own writing a bit too much, and I prattle on. I realize that I am one of those people I have just spoken of, one who has only learned what they know from online flings, but I can at least identify the problem, and I hope that this post, and this thread as a whole, might be able to help anyone else who shares my position.

(in reply to stormiKnightBEAR)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/26/2004 9:25:04 PM

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Just to say....when this one was married to her Master and He turned corrupt, it was easier for her to get a divorce, then it was to break her collar...
Now she comes here and sees the same thing as DevotedMaster, she shakes her head and wonders if a collar means the same to a prespective Master as it does to her...in this place called on-line? Probably not.

(in reply to MattyP)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 9:25:47 AM

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From: Sweden, living in Holland
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I have a few small thoughts on this matter, but first I just have to say that I am an openminded person and people can do what every they want as long as I dont have to play it by their rules.

I very much agree that collars are given too fast, both online and in real life. People dont take the time to get to know one another properly, and learn about limits and behaviour, the basic way the other person is, because lets face it; everyone is and works differently.

I have the idea that many people dont get to the bottom of the lifestyle and every day yearn to learn more, but rather 'adopts' BDSM and D/s as a part of themselves because they so dearly want to belong to something, anything.
Then the same when they meet someone, anyone.
And since they know not the way of the life style they give/recieve a collar more often then, as someone posted here, "most people change underwear".

I think one way that is more acceptable is to have a "play collar" and make sure everyone knows that is what it is. A collar is indeed a handy tool in play, but to give a collar for one weekend and then give it to someone else the next weekend is in my humble opinion plain wrong. Because a collar to me signifies something more, something greater. It is a sign of a serious commitment to one another, like an engagement or a marriage where people pledge themselves to each other.

Thanks for listening to my ranting on, but I felt that I had to express this opinion and hope that it gives you food for thought.

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 10:05:47 AM

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I will apologize upfront to my fellow Doms for my comments here.

Rules, if we are to "follow" the rules, who decides theses rules? I think a collar should have meaning between the collarer, and the collared. Who died and made any of us the Ruler of the Collar?
We live a lifestyle that to many is against the rules, and for some of us it is the reason we live it, so if you choose to have a 12 step program for a collar, so be it, enjoy it, but do not embarass or ridicule someone else that chooses to collar a sub within whatever given time they choose.

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to seleana)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 1:38:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: INSIDEYOURMIND
Rules, if we are to "follow" the rules, who decides theses rules?

We do. We discuss them at places like this board, consider the various arguments, and do as we see fit. We will not always agree on the appropriate course, but those who are offended that their beliefs are being disregarded by others will gripe on places like this board. Talking about the actions of others is one of the most fundamental sort of social controls, and we exercise that, just like any community does.

quote:

Who died and made any of us the Ruler of the Collar?

The same person who died and made you the Ruler of Free Speech. Because we deviate from the common culture, we do not have a lot of methods for educating about, and enforcing, community standards. Some of us may prefer SSC, others may risk a few frowns and go for RACK, but if someone decides that they do not need or want consent, then they have, at that point, ceased to be one of us. They are on their own, most of us will regard them with contempt, and we may warn others to beware of them. Because they bring discredit to our community, and may even cause us elevated risk of arrest, etc., condemning their actions serves an extremely practical purpose.

Collar issues are quite different from consent issues, but the principles are the same. We define ourselves, as a community, by what we smile on and what we criticize. If we give that up, we cease to exist as a community. Your criticism tells us that you wish for looser, more inclusive standards, which is fine, but most of us have a pretty good idea of how much we are willing to accept, and will not be very easily swayed in either direction. It won't be a very easy sell when one is using criticism on a board to challenge the process of posting other criticisms on that same board.

Tolerance and open-mindedness are things which we should all try to maintain and display, but there will always be things which we think are beyond the pale. And a real Dom/me should be able to take a little criticism, shouldn't they?

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 2:30:13 PM

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I have always taken criticism very well, and learn everyday, if you read my post, I do not criticize anyone, I basically say that it is up to all of us to decide what is right for ourselves.
I use the words we, and us because I would not say I am right, or my wy is best. These are open forums for opinion, which I have given, and from this forum I take quite a bit of information and knowledge.

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to NoCalOwner)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 5:10:39 PM

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Joined: 8/22/2004
From: Fall River, MA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DevotedMaster

I don't know about how the rest of you feel but for me this is a disgrace of the lifestyle,

quote:

I don't know about how the rest of you feel but for me this is a disgrace of the lifestyle

Here's how I feel. If I was to criticize every nuance of what did fit my idea of the lifestyle, I would very busy. Just because something doesn't work for you, doesn't make it right, wrong or indifferent. I don't expect to come out here and agree with every one I meet. Furthermore I don't expect anyone out here to agree with every thing I believe. But I won't come out here and complain/criticize about someone doing something I would/wouldn't do and would definately be offended if something I was/wasn't into was criticized/complained about by someone merely because it didn't fit there "Lifestyle Rulebook". YKINMKBYKIOK

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(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 5:36:09 PM

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Is it because we are of a generation whose lives went from "Friendship Rings", to "Steady Pins", to "Engagement Rings", to "Wedding Ring" to "Divorce Parties" that we have the need and desire to integrate a 12 step collar program? Speaking from the perspective of LA, almost EVERYONE here is "collared". This 'old guy' still cringes when he sees a mother buy a heavy gage chain and lock at the mall for her 12 year old daughter as a fashion statement.

The only 'collars' I don't respect are the on-line version. Not people who are collared in real life who indicate it by the appropriate brackets while chatting, but the people who are 'collared', submissive only to their computer screen, and some remote master. I appreciate 'protection collars' because I've witnessed that submissives need protecting. I think probationary collars serve the same function. On the first weekend beth and I were together I put a 'collar' around her neck as a psychological tool for her to understand the dynamic of our proposed relationship. she wasn't my slave then, or even my submissive, she was just a woman who wanted to know. The collar was a symbol of what she was asking.

Collars will never change what people feel for each other or make them feel more for each other any more then an engagement ring. They are symbols. I think someone else has already said this, but I too believe that the collaring that beth & I experiences was more meaningful then marriage. And we too consummated it with a more permanent representation - tattoos. But maybe we are just taking the kid's games to a higher level. Because even tattoos can be removed, albeit more painfully.

It's hearts and minds where the real collars sit. How much time is needed to surrender or accept surender in your heart and mind is as varible as types and textures of the collars themselves.

Merc & beth

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 7:21:44 PM

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Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DevotedMaster ... there is no possible way that you can know each other well enough to think about a collar yet ...

Please speak for yourself as this statement is quite generalizing. No possible way? Well goodness me! Let me pinch myself as i simply must have been dreaming this past June when after so long into my wait, i met and fell deeply in love with my Master in LESS than a week's time. Yes, i was dreaming! It has been the sweetest dream come true. Some do not need as much time as others. Some are capable of making educated, well informed charactor judgements & decisions in short time. Some have had enough experiences in their lives to KNOW what/who they want and/or do NOT want to be fully aware in recognizing what is right for THEM in short time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DevotedMaster ... I would like to get E/everyones thoughts on this matter and see where they stand on the rapidness of such collarings.

my thought on where i stand as i stand here as a submissive who accepted/concented to being collared by my Master in short time is that i chose/was chosen by ... the RIGHT one for me. my choices and decisions are right for me. They may not be right/fitting for others, just as others' decisions may not be fitting/right for me. Everyone is different. Every situation is unique.

There is no 'one size fits all' set of rules out there. Period.

(in reply to DevotedMaster)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 7:43:25 PM

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Hey Devoted,
I agree with you in that I understand/believe collaring is extremely important, and should not be taken lightly; I also have been known to make 1 or 2 impulsive decisions in my day, have had a time where I believed in Love at 1st sight, and I therefore cannot conclude that it's impossible for 2 people to have a magical connection/understanding (especially if important subjects have been discussed, and the power structure is already defined) to collar within a week...
It's probably not being well thought out if this occurence is commonplace, but I think it's possible once in a while for it to happen under honest circumstances (You know same way people meet, runaway and marry?)...
My $.02...
Lady in RI

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/27/2004 7:50:42 PM >

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: Collars and how fast they are given - 9/27/2004 8:44:06 PM

Posts: 483
Status: offline

Maybe this is the solution?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by INSIDEYOURMIND -- 9/27/2004 8:45:27 PM >

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)

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