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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 8:19:52 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

There is no such thing as negative energy.

Yes there is. Almost every thread in the P&R forum disproves that claim.

K.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 8:24:14 AM   
samboct


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Everything in the universe has energy. Physical objects have mass. In order to influence the trajectory of physical objects, there must be at a minimum energy, or preferentially, mass and energy. If God can detect us- we can detect him/her since as Heisenberg showed- once you detect something, you alter it. So if God is beyond our ability to detect, God is also unable to observe/influence us. If God does not have either mass or energy- then God doesn't exist.

Note however, that these statements do NOT contradict the possible existence of a creator which was either destroyed in the big bang or beyond our detection range.

To K- Touche!- although negative energy in a thread can be found outside this forum as well.... (I wonder if negative energy is what I give off on a date......)

to Ron- So are tachyons part of the imponderable universe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon

Sam

< Message edited by samboct -- 9/4/2010 8:28:56 AM >

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 8:38:35 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		They are not real. so, nothing that is not real, is not impossible.  

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 8:52:27 AM   
ThatDaveGuy69


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Status: offline 		Well DUH!

Of course god did not create the universe.

Repeat after me until it sinks in:

There is no god.
There is no god.
There is no god.

Now can we please move on the the important issues?!

~Dave


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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 9:02:34 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Spontaneous creation!!!…to me he is saying “ I have no fucking idea how we are here. I don’t care how smart he is… or how well educated…or how well respected in the scientific community… that statement is as far out and vague as any claim of the existence of God.

It is beneath him and given with no supporting science other than opinion.

Spontaneous indeed…how is that any different than creationism? The same thing with different names. I’ve lost respect for him I’m afraid.

Butch



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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 12:05:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hmm... I suppose ALS is a spontaneous creation too. If he knows the truth about the universe and God why can't he heal himself?
Butch


wow. this makes absolutely no sense

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 2:48:48 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

So if God is beyond our ability to detect, God is also unable to observe/influence us.



That's not correct. Detection is not required for influence. Radiation from natural sources existed and poisoned people for thousands of years before radiation was detected.

Also inorganic materials don't "Detect" anything, yet influenced each other for billions of years before any life existed to detect it.

Unless it was God (a part of everything) doing the "detecting".

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 3:39:20 PM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Nope. If something influences you- it can be detected. Note- this does not mean that with our available detectors, we should be able to find the creator of the universe- hell, we can't even find a habitable planet outside of this one....just that in theory, if God exists- he/she is detectable.

Sam

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 5:55:19 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct

if God exists- he/she is detectable.

Can you "detect" consciousness?

K.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 6:04:00 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
Hi Thorn

Yeah you can. Momentum is always conserved- no matter what- even in a fission or fusion reaction. How else could you make any sense out of the data from the colliders? But I agree that Newtonian examples of kinetic energy start running into trouble.

Sam

In my modern physics class, we were told to break out relativistic physics at anything over 0.2c.  In the same class (and in any semiconductor design class) we couldn't use Newtonian physics in the atomic realm.  Newton never came up with tunneling, for instance.

The physics class used Arthur Beiser's Concepts Of Modern Physics (great because you could do the work with pretty basic calculus).

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 7:41:32 PM   
GotSteel


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Status: offline 		You're wrong about both the spelling and definition of the word theory.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 8:12:27 PM   
samboct


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Status: offline 		Hi Thorn

Well, it's been over 20 years since I struggled with quantum, but tunneling is just that a certain percentage of particles will go "through" a potential barrier, rather than over the top. I can see where Newtonian equations of motion would have some trouble there though- the path of the particle isn't predictable in a Newtonian sense.

Cosmology does have issues where Newtonian mechanics don't work- but orbital calculations aren't one of them.

In any of the work I did- I never had to start using quantum mechanics to explain a reaction-and most of the spectroscopy could use a Newtonian framework as well. My take on most theory is that you use Newton till you can't- and then you go to Hamiltonians which still use Newtonian mechanics- they just figure out what percentage of the time it doesn't work.

But yeah- at an atomic level, Newtonian ideas don't work too well- the whole quantum energy levels of electron orbitals is a bit of a problem. But you still use Newton to figure out the energy of the orbital- you just can't use Newton to explain the transitions. But quantum mechanics is just so nonintuitive, it's very hard to explain to people.

Sam

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 10:12:56 PM   
mcbride


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Status: offline 		It's not science.  That shouldn't have to be pointed out (again).  Hawking is always interesting to listen to, but to see this as more than an opinion would be, as Kirata said, exceedingly naive.

Hawking has a book to sell. Well done, Stephen. May you sell a million.

If Richard Dawkins' followers take comfort from it, if it reaffirms their faith, that's great.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/4/2010 10:13:01 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hmm... I suppose ALS is a spontaneous creation too. If he knows the truth about the universe and God why can't he heal himself?
Butch


wow. this makes absolutely no sense


And why does it not make sense to you? Anyone who claims to know the secrets of the universe… the very meaning of life…that can explain something from nothing…spontaneous creation…then surely he knows the secrets and simplicity of his own body.

His statements are opinion taken out of context and used by many here as proof that there is no God. Yes my statement is silly but so is his no matter how much of a genius he is…see my point?

Butch

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 3:00:08 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Hmm... I suppose ALS is a spontaneous creation too. If he knows the truth about the universe and God why can't he heal himself?
Butch


wow. this makes absolutely no sense


And why does it not make sense to you? Anyone who claims to know the secrets of the universe… the very meaning of life…that can explain something from nothing…spontaneous creation…then surely he knows the secrets and simplicity of his own body.

His statements are opinion taken out of context and used by many here as proof that there is no God. Yes my statement is silly but so is his no matter how much of a genius he is…see my point?

Butch


Your point is asinine. First of all, SH doesnt claim to "know" the secrets of the universe, but even if he did, "knowing" creation doesnt mean fuckall about knowing how to cure ALS, anymore than a brain surgeon knows how to tune his engine.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 8:44:51 AM   
atursvcMaam


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Status: offline 		So who created God, or is that another inevitable consequence?

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 9:54:41 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

So who created God, or is that another inevitable consequence?


Actually thats one of the main problems believers face. Since there is no god, its a non-question for atheists.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 9:59:58 AM   
atursvcMaam


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Status: offline 		ahhh, but if it is all inevitable consequence, how does one explain the uniqueness of Steven Hawkings.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 10:01:37 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

ahhh, but if it is all inevitable consequence, how does one explain the uniqueness of Steven Hawkings.


Answer your own question, youre the one who cliams its an invevitable consequence, not me.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 10:04:41 AM   
atursvcMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

So who created God, or is that another inevitable consequence?


Actually thats one of the main problems believers face. Since there is no god, its a non-question for atheists.


Do you shadow box a lot.  It amazes me how strongly my Atheist acquaintaces battle something that, in their mind, does not exist.

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live hard, die young and leave a good looking corpse when you die.
Love ya, but, when the zombies start chasing us, i am tripping you.
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