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RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:12:44 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Sort of back on track here.

For anybody who's been reading the thread, we did run an experiment of sorts.  I created a new profile so that Icarys could see what the email experience was like for a woman opening up a profile here.  Without revealing any contact info or names, I shared with him the incoming mail that was received.  The profile was made very much like My own, with the same things checked off on the interest categories.  The two major differences that I had put on it was 1) that I was single and 2) I listed a different location,  In the text, I had mentioned that I wasn't interested in anyone too old or too young and that I was interested in getting involved in the local community.  I also put into the profile that I had certain "hates" on My interest list that would make Me incompatible with anyone who "lives for" those activities.

First, let's talk about volume.  The profile was up roughly eighteen hours when it had received over sixty emails.  That was without any 'extra' attention being called to it.  No chat room participation and no forum posts.  I had posted a picture of Myself on it.  (I gave Icarys the decision between a headless torso shot or one of My feet.  He chose the torso.)  It had no journal entries and no friends listed.  No additional participation other than just creating it.  At that eighteen hour mark, he and I agreed that the volume is more than any person could keep up with.  It was a huge time investment just to forward the content.

Where we disagree is in what we determined "polite".  A large majority of the initial contacts weren't overtly rude in the text.  I did get some dick pics and a couple of other rude poses, but not nearly as many as when I first joined up here.  Still, over 35% of the initial contacts fell outside of what I had said in the text in the profile.  (Based on age range, location, or orientation.)  Over 10% of the initial contacts were Dominant males.  About 15% of the initial contacts wrote multiple times before I ever responded to them.  One male submissive wrote seven emails in that eighteen hour period (the highest repeater) and one male Dom wrote five times.  None of the people who initiated contact were women.  I got no "scam" type emails.  I also didn't receive any obvious form letters.  (This tells Me that the spam filter is making an improvement.)  I did receive quite a few that were only one or two lines.

Out of all of the emails that were received, there was only one that actually impressed Me.  That person read My profile and sent Me an email to give Me information that I had alluded to in the text that I might want.  (Very much like some of the folks did when I moved here.)  In My view, that was the email that was exceptional.  LNT mentioned earlier in the thread about the difference in the regular fare and those that deal with you like a person.  That guy did that.

Most of the stuff wasn't too bad.  There were some that we both agree that we really wouldn't have wanted to receive, but most were tolerable.  However, when we got to the point where it was time to start telling people that I wasn't interested, that's when we got some things that I would consider downright nasty.  All of the rejections that I wrote were very simple notes.  The 35% that were outside of the profile interest, I specified that interest.  The rest, I said that it was because I didn't think we were compatible.  I said thank you in every response email.  Once rejected, a significant number sent Me another mail that included a personal insult or included name calling.  It wasn't very encouraging for the "it's polite to reply" stance.  Even without My preconceived notions of what can happen (I didn't get any that were as bad as some I've received in My time here) I have to admit that, in that one day, if I really was a new person here, the experience would be enough to teach Me not to respond to people that I wasn't interested in.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:32:09 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
People are totally missing Sam's point or ignoring it so they can continue doing what it is they want. That's also Ironic when your talking about seeing inside where others can't.


I took Sam's main point to be that it's rude to ignore a message from a good man - to put it at its simplest.  I agree with him on that.  I've felt it to be rude if someone has ignored a cmail from me.  I'm not used to being treated that way by women. It's lessened the hurt for me to understand why women have ignored my messages, but I still can't feel it to be a polite thing to do.  I'm not capable of rearranging my feelings, dependent as they are on codes of behaviour that have been sewn into me since the year dot, overnight. 

It's possible to understand a thing entirely, but still not like it.    

To repeat, I learned the hard way that if my initial, long and thought-out, message gets ignored, I'll feel very low.  I can't help that because I'm a sensitive sort of bloke.  I don't have as thick a skin as I'd like. Good men, as I like to think I am, generally are like that.  We can't deal with too many women being cold towards us. 

I think women know this.  The women who use CM will also know that men -including the good ones - won't understand what it's like for them.  Most of those men who even use the forums - possibly, most of those reading this thread - won't understand.   I think women will also want to continue, as best they can, to avoid throwing the baby out with the bath water.  So, they have to continue to take the risks they've always taken - but now in a new medium, that of the Internet meeting-site.  As I said, that's a bum rap and one of the massive array of reasons why I'm glad I'm not a woman.  It's a bastard of a thing to have to put up with.

What we have here is a dilemma.  It's not going to be resolved by one side demanding that the onus is entirely on the other side to do the accommodating. 

Beneath that, most fundamentally of all, what we have is a cultural shift in which people have not caught up.  Interaction between the sexes can't operate in this new, virtual world in the same way as they did in the real world.  Looking at LNT's inbox, it seems plain to me that the men who are writing for the most part are making inappropriate assumptions about how communication is supposed to work.  Many just say 'Hi' - as though they're smiling at a woman across the street. Others clearly assume that they need to be sending a woman CV - there's one message in her inbox that runs to more than a few pages. 

We all need to get used to new ways of behaving with one another on sites like this.  These new ways of behaving will have to include new ideas of what constitute 'good manners'.  We'll no doubt all have to get tougher in new ways.  Most particularly I think it's likely we'll all have to get tougher regarding verbal aggression, or verbal coldness. 

In the meantime, both sexes have to find ways of limiting the hurt each is going to feel.  I've found 'tools' of my own and, from what I can see on this thread, many others of both sexes have  found their particular tools, too.   To echo LNT's post - 'it's not as bleak as all that'. 

 


_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:36:06 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
Out of all of the emails that were received, there was only one that actually impressed Me.  That person read My profile and sent Me an email to give Me information that I had alluded to in the text that I might want.
 
Going on LNT's inbox last seen last night, I'd say she faired a bit better at two, though only one of those seemed to be really comfortably in the right ball-park of 'potential-like-mind'. 

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:49:16 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
Quick reply:

You've written many things here that I agree with but the implications of many more are incorrect.

What needs to happen Peon are website changes so we all can enjoy it better...not I have to change the way I think because he/she decides to do it differently here than in real life. What your asking people to do..actually asking a great deal of the society that finds it's way here to do is change...so the many have to change for the few. Your out in left field if you think that's going to happen in this lifetime. What will most likely happen is more and more people will feel slighted on both sides till as Sam has pointed out..The site begins to dwindle which isn't good for anyone in the long run...I think that's what people are missing is the long term big picture of their short term actions.

More control over incoming emails would fix a great deal of the problems if thought through properly. For those who want to be nice..Maybe customizable auto-responders based on particular filters..Maybe even reminders that your away from the computer when not logged in.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 10/11/2010 8:54:13 AM >


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:52:45 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

It wasn't very encouraging for the "it's polite to reply" stance. Even without My preconceived notions of what can happen (I didn't get any that were as bad as some I've received in My time here) I have to admit that, in that one day, if I really was a new person here, the experience would be enough to teach Me not to respond to people that I wasn't interested in.

I'll agree..it surely wasn't. I can understand why women are doing this in some ways but in another..It defeats one of the big purposes for the site. Now saying that..Rudeness is still rudeness.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:54:09 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Me, if I'm going to make the initial approach to a woman here, I'll do it in only a few lines.  I'll read her profile and say something that refers to it, hopefully interestingly and amusingly.  I can't do more because I learned the hard way that if my initial, long and thought-out, message gets ignored, I'll feel very low.

The whole post was awesome, Peon, but this is what actually works with most of us. As I said earlier, my last relationship started on CM was when he sent a 2 line, funny cmail about something specific in my profile and asked an honest question. Sending a CV or long  message may seem to be the way to go, but it's far better to actually get her attention before sending all the details.
BTW, I suspect that you already know this. My post was for the benefit of other men who are following the thread.


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:56:45 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
I am amazed that 17 pages are still being devoted to the concept of rudeness online.

I would say having high expectations of people online is akin to winning the lottery.

What people are just failing to do is realize this is a free website. End of story.

You can all discuss this till you are blue in the face and it is not going to change simply because adults choose their mode of behavior, they don't let others choose for them, especially strangers.

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:57:39 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
I missed that in there..How many were outright nasty either before or after responding?

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 8:59:18 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

What people are just failing to do is realize this is a free website. End of story.

Then your advocating a persons right to send cock shots to you and call you a cunt if they choose too?


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:00:16 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
I got tired of someone commenting in one line about my legs and such. several different one line e-mail I didnt respond to. So I finally responded.....So I told him to not e-mail unless he was going to share more and quit being trite.

I got mail back calling me a fat ugly bitch.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:03:16 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I missed that in there..How many were outright nasty either before or after responding?

Can you clarify this a bit?  If you're asking how many were nasty before I sent a response, that number was pretty low.  Even if I looked at total volume, the nasty stuff jumped up only once I started sending responses.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:03:43 AM   
BanditQueen


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/9/2010
Status: offline
i dont see any reason to be rude to anyone especially when you dont know them. unfortunately my first 5 minutes on this site was not the most pleasant expirence. Since then this person has been blocked and i will not communicate with anyone who is acting in a rude and discusting manner.

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:12:04 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
Lushy just reminded Me of something that I didn't say in My prior long comment.  I did get a few comments that were related to the picture that I posted, but I didn't get any outright attacks because of it.  I didn't receive any of the random drive by rudeness based on appearance.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to BanditQueen)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:12:10 AM   
LadyRian


Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Sort of back on track here.

For anybody who's been reading the thread, we did run an experiment of sorts.  I created a new profile so that Icarys could see what the email experience was like for a woman opening up a profile here.  Without revealing any contact info or names, I shared with him the incoming mail that was received.  The profile was made very much like My own, with the same things checked off on the interest categories.  The two major differences that I had put on it was 1) that I was single and 2) I listed a different location,  In the text, I had mentioned that I wasn't interested in anyone too old or too young and that I was interested in getting involved in the local community.  I also put into the profile that I had certain "hates" on My interest list that would make Me incompatible with anyone who "lives for" those activities.

First, let's talk about volume.  The profile was up roughly eighteen hours when it had received over sixty emails.  That was without any 'extra' attention being called to it.  No chat room participation and no forum posts.  I had posted a picture of Myself on it.  (I gave Icarys the decision between a headless torso shot or one of My feet.  He chose the torso.)  It had no journal entries and no friends listed.  No additional participation other than just creating it.  At that eighteen hour mark, he and I agreed that the volume is more than any person could keep up with.  It was a huge time investment just to forward the content.

Where we disagree is in what we determined "polite".  A large majority of the initial contacts weren't overtly rude in the text.  I did get some dick pics and a couple of other rude poses, but not nearly as many as when I first joined up here.  Still, over 35% of the initial contacts fell outside of what I had said in the text in the profile.  (Based on age range, location, or orientation.)  Over 10% of the initial contacts were Dominant males.  About 15% of the initial contacts wrote multiple times before I ever responded to them.  One male submissive wrote seven emails in that eighteen hour period (the highest repeater) and one male Dom wrote five times.  None of the people who initiated contact were women.  I got no "scam" type emails.  I also didn't receive any obvious form letters.  (This tells Me that the spam filter is making an improvement.)  I did receive quite a few that were only one or two lines.

Out of all of the emails that were received, there was only one that actually impressed Me.  That person read My profile and sent Me an email to give Me information that I had alluded to in the text that I might want.  (Very much like some of the folks did when I moved here.)  In My view, that was the email that was exceptional.  LNT mentioned earlier in the thread about the difference in the regular fare and those that deal with you like a person.  That guy did that.

Most of the stuff wasn't too bad.  There were some that we both agree that we really wouldn't have wanted to receive, but most were tolerable.  However, when we got to the point where it was time to start telling people that I wasn't interested, that's when we got some things that I would consider downright nasty.  All of the rejections that I wrote were very simple notes.  The 35% that were outside of the profile interest, I specified that interest.  The rest, I said that it was because I didn't think we were compatible.  I said thank you in every response email.  Once rejected, a significant number sent Me another mail that included a personal insult or included name calling.  It wasn't very encouraging for the "it's polite to reply" stance.  Even without My preconceived notions of what can happen (I didn't get any that were as bad as some I've received in My time here) I have to admit that, in that one day, if I really was a new person here, the experience would be enough to teach Me not to respond to people that I wasn't interested in.



Wow. This was an excellent and enlightening experiment.

I have to say that the rudeness encountered hasn't been my experience yet. No name calling, no insults.
I'm not sure why it hasn't happened, but I'm not going to be so naive as to think that it never will. My profile is specifically set up so as not to show  most of my kink interests, I wonder if this is a factor? I'm sure my newness here is.





_____________________________

"Dodging bullets since 2010"

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:15:02 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
One I think sent you a straight out of the box insult, I believe..How many people sent you a nasty reply once you rejected them? A rough number would help.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:18:33 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I wonder if this is a factor? I'm sure my newness here is.

By Pacts assessments you should be more of a target.

Thanks for the positive take on it.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyRian)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:21:42 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

One I think sent you a straight out of the box insult, I believe..How many people sent you a nasty reply once you rejected them? A rough number would help.

No, I didn't send any insults.  You got the replies that I sent. 

"Thank you, but I am only interested in people in the <specified area>."  That's not an insult.  In fact, I find that to be more than polite when I had already specified in the profile that was My main interest.

Telling people they fall outside of the age range, I also don't find insulting.  That also was in the profile.

"Thank you, but I do not think we are compatible" is a generic message.

The discussion that we had regarding one of the people who wrote that I knew from memory I had blocked on My real profile was kept between us.  That person did, however, fall into one of My "hates" that I listed on the profile, which I had written on the text of the profile meant we were not compatible.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:25:20 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
Your misreading my meanings and I think are putting negative connotations on the word reject.

Once you said very politely I'm not interested in you...How many replied back with a nasty response.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:33:23 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
I would say its a very high percentage. I had  2 people call me fat and ugly in a week. One when realizing he wasnt going to get laid and the second when I called his e-mails trite. That is the small percentage I actually responded to. Many just get ignored.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: The need to be rude?!? - 10/11/2010 9:39:06 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

I called his e-mails trite

Without condoning what he did..Can you see how that might have upset him?


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 340
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