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I don't get it - 10/7/2010 6:59:26 AM

AlwaysLisa

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From: Washington State
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Sometimes I don't understand our judicial system.   Here is a woman who admitted in graphic detail to the murder of a young pregnant mother, then cutting the baby from her womb...and we are wasting tax dollars to determine if it was planned or sporadic?

Someone who stabs another person over 40 times, then cuts a baby from the still alive mother...does not belong in society, ever! It's like reliving the Manson murders. Why is this even up for debate?

Why on earth is it going to trial! The crime was confessed, does motive truly matter?   I'm sorry, at this point the accused has given up her right to live among us, either put her away and never let her see light again..or give her the needle.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2010/10/07/1199518/woman-likely-unconscious-when.html

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RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 7:23:57 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
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It seems to me that she must have been insane.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

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RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 7:30:31 AM

Acer49

Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Sometimes I don't understand our judicial system.   Here is a woman who admitted in graphic detail to the murder of a young pregnant mother, then cutting the baby from her womb...and we are wasting tax dollars to determine if it was planned or sporadic?

Someone who stabs another person over 40 times, then cuts a baby from the still alive mother...does not belong in society, ever! It's like reliving the Manson murders. Why is this even up for debate?

Why on earth is it going to trial! The crime was confessed, does motive truly matter?   I'm sorry, at this point the accused has given up her right to live among us, either put her away and never let her see light again..or give her the needle.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2010/10/07/1199518/woman-likely-unconscious-when.html

premeditation may allow the death penalty to be sought. And society is still gutless when it comes to executing a women. No I not going pay for this women to live. she took a life, she now needs to give up her own.

< Message edited by Acer49 -- 10/7/2010 7:33:26 AM >

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RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 7:31:26 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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Obviously. I just hope I don't get a jury summons for this one...as far as Im concerned she is only worth the price of a bullet. My tax dollars could be put to better use.

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Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

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Post #: 4

RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 7:38:34 AM

firmobeisance

Posts: 55
Joined: 5/25/2007
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So weird, when I read the article, I thought "the name's not correct..."
Saw this on the local news last night:
http://www.kptv.com/news/25306610/detail.html
Apparently we have some sort of new version of "going postal," with a maternal twist, yum. Just to put it in some sort of weird perspective, Pasco is about a hundred miles east of where I live, whereas Hillsboro is 60 miles to the west. Must be a PNW thing. Kennewick and Pasco are satellite communities of Hanford, a superfund site where the Hiroshima bomb was assembled...

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 5

RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 9:47:10 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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There was also one in MA.

I didn't agree with letting the Manson girls live and I don't feel these women should be given that same right. In all three cases, the women know what they did, never denied the crime...that should be enough for the death penalty. Doesn't it make you all warm and fuzzy to know that your tax dollars paid for the Manson girls to get a college education while in prison? I know I sleep better at night.

Sometimes I question our advancement as a species.

_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

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Post #: 6

RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 11:09:06 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Here is a woman who admitted in graphic detail to the murder of a young pregnant mother, then cutting the baby from her womb...and we are wasting tax dollars to determine if it was planned or sporadic?

It is called "American Justice"... if you do not like it get an amendment to amend the Bill of Rights.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 7

RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 11:17:59 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Here is a woman who admitted in graphic detail to the murder of a young pregnant mother, then cutting the baby from her womb...and we are wasting tax dollars to determine if it was planned or sporadic?

It is called "American Justice"... if you do not like it get an amendment to amend the Bill of Rights.

This.

I believe I read something the other day. A man was released from prison after doing 20some years for a horrific murder he had confessed to. He later recanted his confession, saying he had been pressured into it. Obviously it got him no where until DNA testing proved he could not have been the murderer and solved the case as to who had committed the crime.

As wacky as our judicial system is, I value it over any other. Presidents can come and go, I don't care, but fuck with our judicial system and I would have a very LOUD hissy fit.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 10/7/2010 11:22:04 AM >

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 8

RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 3:30:14 PM

DomImus

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We're a nation of pussies where the criminal has more rights than the victim.

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RE: I don't get it - 10/7/2010 7:35:14 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

We're a nation of pussies where the criminal has more rights than the victim.

Oh, you are so right, what we need is a buncha inbreeds with pitchforks and torches lynching dem wrong doers in the streets. I am tired of this thing we call "civil society", I say fuck that!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 10

RE: I don't get it - 10/8/2010 3:24:33 AM

LaTigresse

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Everyone wants to remove other people's rights. Those evil people we don't like or agree with. The ones that do wicked immoral things. To hell with fair, to hell with justice, kill em, hang em!!!

Until it is us that suffers the injustice........then we scream about our rights, the constitution, due process.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 11

RE: I don't get it - 10/8/2010 12:57:01 PM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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Wow, go away for a day and all hell breaks loose.

The case in question, is not something we need to prove, the accused has given us a very detailed and graphic account of how the murder took place.   This is not a case of mistaken identity or village idiots running around with pitchforks. This is a cry for the family who lost a young mother and child at the hands of a woman who has bragged on facebook and among the inmates about her deeds.   This was a well thought out attack, it wasn't a slip up or "oopsy".

Yes, I understand about due process, yes I understand we have made mistakes and innocent lives have been destroyed...my complaint is that in something this cut and dry, why are we wasting the money and time of all involved, (now going on two years).

Washington state is a little more liberal then some others, I think they are trying to follow California.

If you are happy that we have educated women in our prison system and that your tax dollars paid for that degree, great.   I am not.   Self accountability. We need more of it. Squeaky Fromm admited in great detail how Sharon Tate pleaded for the life of her unborn child and they laughed...while stabbing.   Tell me, what good is a college education on this woman?

I forget who said if I don't like things, work to change them.... believe me I have and will continue to do so.   My post here was simply to vent a little, I realize it will do little in the scheme of things.   I mean, lol..c'mon, it's a BDSM forum, not CNN.

No, I don't support vigilante justice, I've seen the flip side and it's not pretty.   Sometimes I throw sarcasm into my posts and it is taken literally, I need to watch that more carefully on this forum so it would seem.

I don't condone high powered rifles taking pot shots at people...but...if something were to happen inside, among the inmates and this woman suddenly became dead, I'm not saying it would be a bad thing.

Lisa

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Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 12

RE: I don't get it - 10/8/2010 1:18:13 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I would not classify our responses as "all hell breaking loose".

We have a judicial system that sentences people according to the severity of their crimes. In order to do so often there needs to be an examination of a defendant to ascertain that they are mentally sound and competent to not only stand trial, but to determine their culpability in committing crime. It takes years because the system is overburdened with drug crimes ect.

I see little relevance to talking about college educating people in prison and the judicial system. These things have little to do with your OP, and it would seem that you are derailing your own thread because you realize that your opening post presented you in a way that you did not want to be, which is as someone that doesn't believe in the process.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 13

RE: I don't get it - 10/8/2010 7:47:45 PM

Kreevillicious

Posts: 52
Joined: 7/4/2006
From: Life is Good
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

The crime was confessed, does motive truly matter?

Actually, motive does matter in regard to sentencing and possible treatment, especially in death penalty states such as Florida. Did you know that in FL more than one-half of prisoners and more than one-half of all those incarcerated in jail have a mental health diagnosis, substance abuse problems, or both? Funding for mental health and substance abuse programs is sorely lacking in FL (and throughout the US), yet these are the programs that could best assist in the prevention of many crimes and reduce recidivism.

Also, people with intellectual and other developmental disabilities comprise approximately 1-4% of offenders nationwide. These offenders are more likely to admit guilt to crimes they didn’t commit due to a lack of understanding, coercion, fear, or a desire to please others. Again, funding for behavioral and educational programs for people with disabilities are among the first to be cut to reduce deficits.

Prevention, prevention, prevention!

https://flabar.org/DIVCOM/JN/JNNews01.nsf/Articles/BFDC4E51F6601F41852572B9005130D8

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1651002,00.html

http://www.allbusiness.com/public-administration/justice-public-order/1143300-1.html

http://www.robertperske.com/Archives/CriminalJusticeAndIntellectualDisabilities.doc

Unequal Justice by: Robert Perske

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Post #: 14

RE: I don't get it - 10/9/2010 6:05:35 AM

LaTigresse

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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http://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2010/sep/costofcrime

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Kreevillicious)

Post #: 15

RE: I don't get it - 10/9/2010 6:20:21 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

I would not classify our responses as "all hell breaking loose".

In her world perhaps this is what happens when people disagree with her.

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(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 16

RE: I don't get it - 10/9/2010 7:26:18 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline

Oh good grief.

Did I state that things "breaking loose" were confined to this forum?   Perhaps, just perhaps...I was refering to other issues in my life not affiliated with online?  Not everyone lives and breathes the CM forums. I shall though, for the sake of clarity be more specific in the future so the assumptions will be held to a minimum.

As to my original post....it has everything to do with money wasted, see the comment about tax dollars.    Rewarding someone who is serving time (to avoid more misconceptions, I am speaking of people without the possibility of release due to the violent nature of their crime), with a college education is a waste of my money, that was indeed part of my post.   Everything costs money..my money. Food, upkeep, education, the trial itself...all wasted dollars in my opinion in this situation when the accused has no remorse and thrives on reliving her crime.

Sorry I don't have time to elaborate further right now, but that thing known as life is calling.   I have hit on the two issues that were commented on....oh, and one more thing, I don't stutter.   When I type, or when I speak, what you read is what I mean and how I feel.   If I ever decide my posts are being perceived in a manner contrary to how I meant them, don't worry, I will be the first one to tackle that problem head on, not by backpeddling and trying to change direction. I meant what I said and there is no "derailing" going on.

_____________________________

Just an old flower child, trying to survive in today's chaos and confusion.

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 17

RE: I don't get it - 10/9/2010 1:16:33 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Did I state that things "breaking loose" were confined to this forum?

No, you said

quote:

Wow, go away for a day and all hell breaks loose.

I assumed you were speaking of this thread when you were 1. responding to it 2. been gone from this thread for a day... my bad for reading your posts so literally

quote:

As to my original post....it has everything to do with money wasted, see the comment about tax dollars. Rewarding someone who is serving time (to avoid more misconceptions, I am speaking of people without the possibility of release due to the violent nature of their crime), with a college education is a waste of my money, that was indeed part of my post. Everything costs money..my money. Food, upkeep, education, the trial itself...all wasted dollars in my opinion in this situation when the accused has no remorse and thrives on reliving her crime.

Lets reread your OP, shall we?

quote:

Sometimes I don't understand our judicial system. Here is a woman who admitted in graphic detail to the murder of a young pregnant mother, then cutting the baby from her womb..and we are wasting tax dollars to determine if it was planned or sporadic?

Someone who stabs another person over 40 times, then cuts a baby from the still alive mother...does not belong in society, ever! It's like reliving the Manson murders. Why is this even up for debate?

Why on earth is it going to trial! The crime was confessed, does motive truly matter? I'm sorry, at this point the accused has given up her right to live among us, either put her away and never let her see light again..or give her the needle.

Now, I am a fairly literate person. I am pretty adept at discerning what people mean when they write. Now if the person is very poor at communicating their overarching ideas, I may misread them, but over and over and over again your OP ranted about due process... you only mentioned tax dollars once. So please excuse me if I thought your major complaint was that we were bothering with trials to figure out how someone should be sentenced instead of hanging the bitch from the highest tree. I do not think the trouble is with my reading comprehension, but with your writing skills if your main point is that we spend money on educating inmates (some of which are in for drug crimes and education is the best way to make sure they do not reoffend).

Now, please feel free to mention how the sky is falling, just not on this thread, but maybe in your real life or on the forum in general

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 18

RE: I don't get it - 10/9/2010 7:15:57 PM

Zevar

Posts: 801
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Sometimes I don't understand our judicial system.   Here is a woman who admitted in graphic detail to the murder of a young pregnant mother, then cutting the baby from her womb...and we are wasting tax dollars to determine if it was planned or sporadic?

Someone who stabs another person over 40 times, then cuts a baby from the still alive mother...does not belong in society, ever! It's like reliving the Manson murders. Why is this even up for debate?

Why on earth is it going to trial! The crime was confessed, does motive truly matter?   I'm sorry, at this point the accused has given up her right to live among us, either put her away and never let her see light again..or give her the needle.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2010/10/07/1199518/woman-likely-unconscious-when.html

Good Evening, Lisa:

I could not agree with you more regarding the misuse of Tax Dollars. However the Judicial System has nothing directly to do with the appropriation of funding that has been allocated on a budgetary level.

The Legal System does have to give a defendant , this one also, DUE PROCESS which is one of the Laws among the legal RIGHTS for CRIMNALS. The U.S. Constitution allows these various legal processes that you mention have you displeased when considering this horrific crime. Your position is totally comprehensible yet as you might already know the process of Law was not created to prevent the rights of Criminals.

Further case law sets a precedence that has altered and modified various issues pertaining to crimes over time which contribute to the Law of the Land as is known in each particualar State and Federal Law. It is known that Criminal Law also assures the people of the specific State where the alleged crime occurred that this alleged criminal does have to face of Jury of their peers. Our last and only hope. The people of the Great State of Washington, aye!

Take good care of you!

< Message edited by Zevar -- 10/9/2010 7:18:31 PM >

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)

Post #: 19

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