RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program

RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (Full Version)

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EternalHoH -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 8:57:02 AM)
Let the high frequency traders tell their own story! http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6945451n

Musicmystery -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 8:57:15 AM)
quote: I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole. I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions.

pahunkboy -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 11:50:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven First off, a huge IF: The quoted article is from prison planet, which I consider less than reliable. So my response is IF the article is true (and that one of the HFTs was claiming to have never have had a losing day in four years, even on days that the market tanked, makes me think it's suspect). I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole. If there is a quirk in a program, it could crash the system more quickly than any human could realize that there's a problem. It also makes it damn tempting to do insider trading because forty transactions in a day, most worth a fraction of a percent, could be a very effective screen for the one illegal trade that nets a thirty percent gain. Normally, I'm against regulation. But I'd support something stating that electronic transactions would have to be held a minimum of half an hour while there would be no restrictions on human transactions that couldn't crash the whole system. I am afraid you do not grasp what it is. The big banks are INVESTMENT banks. This means they play with their own money. The software KNOWS what trade is asked for at what price. The house knows the bid/ask- and skims the price on EVERY TRANSACTION. There is no neutral party here. The brokerage/banks, pad the trades- in micro seconds- cause they own the software. By you claiming it is on the up and up- is you in essence saying YOU can beat the computer at chess. and you CANT. Think outside the box, Steven, do not sell yourself short on particularly this concept. The game is rigged.

DarkSteven -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 2:32:21 PM)
Well, hell, I'm against investment banks in the first place. I bailed them out involuntarily a couple of times and I'd appreciate them not gambling any more. And I'm not seeing where I claimed that this is on the up and up.

thornhappy -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 6:49:46 PM)
FR... Remember that "flash crash" that happened earlier this year? It's looking more and more that it was due to a flash trade. These folks make money by getting fractions of a cent on shitloads of trades. It adds up after awhile.

MrRodgers -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 8:41:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster In other news, water is wet, the sun rises in the East, and English is widely spoken in England. You must not be in the markets. The SEC is looking into it because of the possibility these programs could instigate a precipitous drop in prices that all exchanges want to avoid. For most...it isn't fun being slave to the speculators.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 8:48:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster In other news, water is wet, the sun rises in the East, and English is widely spoken in England. You must not be in the markets. The SEC is looking into it because of the possibility these programs could instigate a precipitous drop in prices that all exchanges want to avoid. For most...it isn't fun being slave to the speculators. If you mean, by "in the markets," day-trading, then no. I don't like gambling. I am invested in a Canada fund, which is a play on natural resources, and I have a rental property. I'm coasting on my cash flow now. The markets are just another method for transfering wealth from the middle class to the ownership class.

MrRodgers -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 8:55:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole. I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions. Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets and is not 'cashing out discrepencies' and in fact can cause wide swings if they guess (speculate) incorrectly. Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation. NO...this is 'speed trading' where spreads are used by computer except it is on buying and selling any stock...not the same stock...at the same time Both are extremely speculative and most arbitrage is on commodities most in demand (currencies the most popular) not stocks. Plus all of these trades are volume sensitive where large quantities need be traded.

truckinslave -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 9:08:18 PM)
Let me try it again. I make one trade. I hold it 250 trading days. That means I hold it for 21,600,000 seconds. It would take 1,999.999 trades held for a grand total of 400,00 seconds to bring the average hold time down to.... 11 seconds. TWO BILLION to one. Per year. Roughly. Not counting Sundays and Holidays. [:D] Prisonplanet, uh?

Musicmystery -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 9:08:25 PM)
quote: Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets Actually, that's exactly how it stabilizes markets. quote: Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation. Why would it? It has nothing to do with speculation--in fact, since it counts on a sure thing, it's the opposite of speculation. Where's the discrepancy to take advantage of? Now, in a fixed currency, the discrepancy between speculative prices and actual value create arbitrage possibilities (and the reason why we turned to floating currency)--but that's not at all the situation here. Apples and oranges. quote: NO...this is 'speed trading' Which is WHY I told him he was thinking of arbitrage instead in his post. In short, you're saying the same thing I told him.

Real0ne -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 10:49:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole. I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions. Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets and is not 'cashing out discrepencies' and in fact can cause wide swings if they guess (speculate) incorrectly. Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation. NO...this is 'speed trading' where spreads are used by computer except it is on buying and selling any stock...not the same stock...at the same time Both are extremely speculative and most arbitrage is on commodities most in demand (currencies the most popular) not stocks. Plus all of these trades are volume sensitive where large quantities need be traded. yeh you fake the market maker out. put it up and take if off before they can execute, they bump the pread and you mail them. that is not high risk that is extreme risk! If your internet connection drops one packet you will take huge hits.

Real0ne -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 10:53:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy FR... Remember that "flash crash" that happened earlier this year? It's looking more and more that it was due to a flash trade. These folks make money by getting fractions of a cent on shitloads of trades. It adds up after awhile. an example of how fast they can go, in 2001 (I think) maybe 02 I watch intel take a hit for I believe a snag over 18 billion in less than 10 minutes.

Real0ne -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 10:54:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: I don't consider high frequency trading to be beneficial to the market and the US as a whole. I think he's probably referring to arbitrage, which does stabilize markets (by cashing out discrepancies) and is of course very short term positions. yeh milliseconds LOL

Dominatist -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/24/2010 11:26:05 PM)
[awaiting approval]

pahunkboy -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/25/2010 5:39:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: Arbitrage is nothing more than taking advantage of a slight spread created by rapid swings mostly in commodity prices and is practiced by buying and selling the same thing...at the same time. Arbitrage does not 'stabilize' markets Actually, that's exactly how it stabilizes markets. quote: Arbitrage did nothing to 'stabilize' oil prices back when the price kept going up and solely on speculation. Why would it? It has nothing to do with speculation--in fact, since it counts on a sure thing, it's the opposite of speculation. Where's the discrepancy to take advantage of? Now, in a fixed currency, the discrepancy between speculative prices and actual value create arbitrage possibilities (and the reason why we turned to floating currency)--but that's not at all the situation here. Apples and oranges. quote: NO...this is 'speed trading' Which is WHY I told him he was thinking of arbitrage instead in his post. In short, you're saying the same thing I told him. You actually beleive that? I dont.

pahunkboy -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/25/2010 5:40:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Prisonplanet, uh? Care to tell me you net worth? ---- > You are up there with Goldman? Or are you the hired help?

truckinslave -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/25/2010 6:59:01 AM)
Don't look at the numbers. Attack the poster.

pahunkboy -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/25/2010 7:01:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Don't look at the numbers. Attack the poster. Let me back up. This issue can be studied from other sources. The big boys are skimming, padding, double dipping. If we dis-agree, then so be it.

truckinslave -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/25/2010 7:13:30 AM)
quote: The big boys are skimming, padding, double dipping. Stop the presses!!! Banks make money!!!! If I thought a company made too much money I would buy stock in them.

pahunkboy -> RE: 70% Of All Stock Market Trades Are Held for An Average of 11 SECONDS In the stock market, program (10/25/2010 7:21:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: The big boys are skimming, padding, double dipping. Stop the presses!!! Banks make money!!!! If I thought a company made too much money I would buy stock in them. Ever here of Goldman bonuses? Do you think these guys actually earn it?

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