Consensual or not? (Full Version)

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Hillwilliam -> Consensual or not? (10/25/2010 10:44:43 AM)

http://www.centurylink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9J1HSFG0%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1011&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCL2_UNEWS&page=1

Interesting reading.



tazzygirl -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/25/2010 11:43:26 AM)

"Certainly in abusive relationships, sometimes it's hard to parse out what people do voluntarily and what things they are coerced to do," said Wright, who helped write a sadomasochism vs. abuse policy statement in the late 1990s that has been adopted by national BDSM groups.

At times, it all becomes "tangled up," she said. "And at that point, I don't think any consent you give is legitimate consent."

That says it all.



MIsabelah -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/25/2010 5:42:01 PM)

Definitely not consensual.



DMFParadox -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/25/2010 8:03:25 PM)

Holy shit.

...nailed to a board, prostituted out?

And yet, I sometimes find profiles here of  '18' year olds asking for exactly this. I usually assume they're spammers, but... I sometimes wonder if they really want that kind of life...

Ugh. I can't judge this. Too many conflicting possibilities; I'd have to talk to the participants to get a feel, no newspaper article is enough to go on.



AquaticSub -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/25/2010 9:43:02 PM)

Honestly, that is how I feel.

I've heard of nails being used in entirely consenting scenes between loving partners.

On the one hand it's entirely possible that she was all for it and, now that she is with her family, she is being pressured to say that she hated it, that she was forced. Or maybe she regrets it now and can't handle that she did consent to it.

On the other... she was young. She could have been forced or seduced into it. Got trapped in a web of "Well I did this, so I guess I should do this" or thinking she had nowhere else to go.

Maybe - probably in my guess - it's a mix of both.



DMFParadox -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/25/2010 10:03:40 PM)

quote:

Maybe - probably in my guess - it's a mix of both.


I must agree.



myotherself -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/26/2010 7:52:32 AM)

She was described by the "authorities" as a "mentally deficient runaway", aged 16.

If that's true, then I can't see how consent can even be considered. However, I do take newspaper reports with a pinch of salt...



AquaticSub -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/26/2010 8:33:10 AM)

Who are the authorities and based on what are they considering her mentally deficient? The problem is that this is the sort of situation that the papers love to play up. The evil kinksters and the sweet helpless teen.

Things can be a little more complicated than that. She evidently lived with them for at least a year (two depending on who you believe) and didn't start having sex with them till she was 18. Now unless that turns out to be a lie, that would mean that they waited till she was at the age of consent. Which doesn't exactly add up to me as an irresponsible jerk. She was not kept hidden away or cut off the world, which is typical for abusers, but had plenty of contact with the outside world and even modeled for some magazine covers. So there were plenty of chances to alert others. When she got sick, she wasn't ignored but the couple frantically called 911. That just doesn't add up with a torturing abuser since the cases I'm familiar with where there was long-term torture the victim was kept away from any chance to contact others and rarely given proper medical treatment.

Which is why, unless I - by some chance - get to speak to some of the people in question, I'm putting my bet on mix between the two.



BonesFromAsh -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/26/2010 11:47:13 AM)

~fast reply~

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3398624


For anyone who has forgotten the original thread related to this news story.

Edited to add...there was also a very interesting thread on FetLife in the BDSM and the Law group concerning this story.



AquaticSub -> RE: Consensual or not? (10/26/2010 12:11:52 PM)

Thanks for the link. I couldn't remember if this story and that thread were related nor how to search for them.



krissy2832 -> RE: Consensual or not? (11/20/2010 11:41:51 AM)

Believe it or not, I know this couple personally. I dont even have to click on the link to know who you are talking about. She was a fellow dancer at a club I worked at, where he eventually became the co-owner. There are alot of details that you wont find in the media. One of which is the fact that she had a pistol that she was allowed to carry in her purse with her. She had a dream of being a model, and was not only featured in taboo magazine multiple times but even held the cover and i believe centerfold for 2007. When it is said that she was mentally deficient, as to that, I think there is some truth to that. She could hold a conversation with anyone, and she knew what was going on, and the whole time I was around made it clear she loved her Master and this is what she wanted. As far as her needs, she was never mistreated, her health was always put first, other than the incident that led to her cardiac arrest as far as I am aware of. She seemed very happy with her life. She would proudly show off pictures of her in bondage and talk about how much she loved it.

On the flip side, I knew her about a year before this happened, and she had already been living this life for sometime. Other girls that knew her better than I did have said that she would confide in them that she wanted to get away, but he threatened to kill her, and I think he did brainwash her some. I did witness that he would force her to take street drugs to help her performance at work. He also would punish her at work if any dancers made anymore money that her. I know alot of the dancers were uncomfortable with that because it would happen right in the dressing room, and it seemed more abuse than punishment. Another incident involving just him and another dancer friend of mine was he promised that he would pierce her nipples if she would come stay the night with him, and just watch them play. If she felt comfortable enough to join she could, but that was not required. Once she got there he pressured her into letting him bind her hands above her head and used several toys on her as well as a violet wand and whip. He also never gave her the piercings, he told her she would have to come back for them. She felt so uncomfortable she quit the club and tried to stop contact with him, do to work she moved to KY soon after where he continued to try to convince her to come back. She eventually had to have her number changed.

I am not trying to change anyones opinion, I just thought i would give some insight to things that you wont find in the media.



DMFParadox -> RE: Consensual or not? (12/17/2010 7:04:11 AM)

Wow.

...Fuck.

This is a crazy assed fucked up world to be living in, especially if you're a crazy-assed fucked up person living outside the lines.

Your testimony has only made this entire thing more unsettling, though it's decent of you to be explaining this. Right now it seems like the household is like a car driving too fast on a mountainside and fell off; I can only hope everyone lives through it and the car doesn't explode.



HeidiAnn -> RE: Consensual or not? (12/18/2010 4:33:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

Right now it seems like the household is like a car driving too fast on a mountainside and fell off; I can only hope everyone lives through it and the car doesn't explode.


To me it feels the same way.

And thanks for the link, this has been the most thought provoking BDSM-related news i've read in a while.



poise -> RE: Consensual or not? (12/18/2010 7:08:28 AM)

It looks like I'm late to the party............again. Hrmph!
The link you provided took me to a news website.
The top story was "Obama signs tax bill, salutes compromise".
Which puts an even more interesting spin on the question "Consensual or Not?
but I'll be damned if I discuss politics on the internet [:)]



Charles6682 -> RE: Consensual or not? (12/26/2010 9:29:19 AM)

Darn,I got here too late too.The news link brought me to a website about snow on Christmas.



kalikshama -> RE: Consensual or not? (12/26/2010 11:00:49 AM)

Here you go:

http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2010/09/edward_bagley_sr_accused_of_forcing_woman_with_mental_illness_to_be_a_sex_slave.php

I think shooting her pets makes it pretty clear it wasn't consensual:
If FV cried or tried to stop him, Bagley allegedly ramped up the torture and threatened to kill the girl. The threats apparently weren't idle. He kept numerous guns in the home and allegedly demonstrated his willingness to kill by shooting animals FV cared for in front of her. He's also accused of threatening to bury the girl alive and showed her a video of how he'd do it.

http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2010/10/dennis_henry_wooden_pony_sex.php

Cook also allegedly laughed at the young woman when she tried to use a safe word to stop the sessions.



TheRaptorJesus -> RE: Consensual or not? (12/29/2010 10:59:23 AM)

Anyone who would ask "consensual or not" is a moron who needs to get a tighter grasp on reality.

Not CM-reality... real reality.



tazzygirl -> RE: Consensual or not? (3/3/2011 2:24:50 PM)

Here is an update. One of the men plead guilty as part of a plea bargain agreement.

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979097878

A man charged in a sex slave case has pleaded guilty. James Noel who is from southwest Missouri admitted that he tortured a young disabled woman who was being held as a sex slave in a rural trailer. Noel, 45, has pleaded guilty in the U.S. District Court in Kansas City.

The horrific crime involves four other men accused in the case, and Edward "Master Ed" Bagley, is the so-called mastermind in the case. He allegedly branded, tortured, and sexually abused the woman over a five-year period in Lebanon, Missouri.

According to CBS, "Three men in addition to Noel are accused of paying Bagley to either watch him torture the mentally disabled woman, now 25, online or torture her themselves, prosecutors told St. Louis Today."

Of course, Noel made a plea deal with the government for his cooperation, but this case is so disturbing that it boggles the mind that he would receive any deal. Noel admitted to using an electrical device to shock the poor woman.

It is amazing that people could be so cruel as to take advantage of a disabled young woman. The torture of this woman is sick, and beyond inhumane.



xssve -> RE: Consensual or not? (4/28/2011 8:08:44 AM)

There always seem to be a few people confused at the distinction between Domliness and Pimpdom, there is a line there somewhere.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Consensual or not? (5/15/2011 4:51:48 PM)

I don't mean to make light of a horrible situation, but it seems as though these things, while always happening somewhere in the southern midwest with a "mentally disabled" person, they are being promised by the abuser to make them some kiind of star, yet they live in a delapidated old trailer...



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