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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:29:29 PM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		What on Earth was funny?

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:32:09 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

What on Earth was funny?


3 words that will never describe Obama in a leadership role except to someone so far left he cant see around the corner.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:43:52 PM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		You do not see his traditional conservatism?

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 1:50:19 PM   
Louve00


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Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		I have been following this thread with a little bit of interest.  What fascinates me about the OP is the way it is just "assumed" everyone should understand, welcome, support and stand behind liberal views when that just isn't the case, no matter how much logic you think you're applying, or how you discount or berate people who do, in fact, disagree with the viewpoint.  While I usually take the liberal stance on matters.  I find this "I don't understand how people cannot agree with it" attitude a bit overbearing.  While I can certainly agree with liberal mindedness, I wouldn't for a moment assume that everyone agreed with it...anymore that I would want anyone to assume that it would be assinine for me to disagree to be conservative.

Different strokes for different folks.  Forcing them...playing condescending word games with them, won't change anyone's POV and may just plant them firmly where they are right now. 


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:01:35 PM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		Yes, I do assume people understand the meaning of words and basic philosophical concepts. I do not assume everyone agrees, but write as if all argue in good faith. You can hate President Obama's policies, but to not see at least some element of conservative in them is willful ignorance. President Obama polices inherently try to reform existing structures and protect American institutions (like GM). You can think this is bad reform, but there is nothing at all radical in what he does (which is why knee-jerk liberals get upset with him).

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:08:56 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I have been following this thread with a little bit of interest.  What fascinates me about the OP is the way it is just "assumed" everyone should understand, welcome, support and stand behind liberal views when that just isn't the case, no matter how much logic you think you're applying, or how you discount or berate people who do, in fact, disagree with the viewpoint.  While I usually take the liberal stance on matters.  I find this "I don't understand how people cannot agree with it" attitude a bit overbearing.  While I can certainly agree with liberal mindedness, I wouldn't for a moment assume that everyone agreed with it...anymore that I would want anyone to assume that it would be assinine for me to disagree to be conservative.

Different strokes for different folks.  Forcing them...playing condescending word games with them, won't change anyone's POV and may just plant them firmly where they are right now. 



It is not liberal views that are asinine, it is the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences. Despite years of evidence and the trends in the reversal of European socialism, US liberals seemed happy to rush headlong into the same obvious mistakes.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:15:18 PM   
PatrickG38


Posts: 338
Joined: 10/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I have been following this thread with a little bit of interest.  What fascinates me about the OP is the way it is just "assumed" everyone should understand, welcome, support and stand behind liberal views when that just isn't the case, no matter how much logic you think you're applying, or how you discount or berate people who do, in fact, disagree with the viewpoint.  While I usually take the liberal stance on matters.  I find this "I don't understand how people cannot agree with it" attitude a bit overbearing.  While I can certainly agree with liberal mindedness, I wouldn't for a moment assume that everyone agreed with it...anymore that I would want anyone to assume that it would be assinine for me to disagree to be conservative.

Different strokes for different folks.  Forcing them...playing condescending word games with them, won't change anyone's POV and may just plant them firmly where they are right now. 



It is not liberal views that are asinine, it is the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences. Despite years of evidence and the trends in the reversal of European socialism, US liberals seemed happy to rush headlong into the same obvious mistakes.



What is it about Western Europe that so scares conservatives.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:18:22 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

I have been following this thread with a little bit of interest.  What fascinates me about the OP is the way it is just "assumed" everyone should understand, welcome, support and stand behind liberal views when that just isn't the case, no matter how much logic you think you're applying, or how you discount or berate people who do, in fact, disagree with the viewpoint.  While I usually take the liberal stance on matters.  I find this "I don't understand how people cannot agree with it" attitude a bit overbearing.  While I can certainly agree with liberal mindedness, I wouldn't for a moment assume that everyone agreed with it...anymore that I would want anyone to assume that it would be assinine for me to disagree to be conservative.

Different strokes for different folks.  Forcing them...playing condescending word games with them, won't change anyone's POV and may just plant them firmly where they are right now. 



It is not liberal views that are asinine, it is the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences. Despite years of evidence and the trends in the reversal of European socialism, US liberals seemed happy to rush headlong into the same obvious mistakes.



What is it about Western Europe that so scares conservatives.


It doesnt scare us in the least. It is a valuable lesson in the failure of liberalism and can only help wake up the independents and liberals who are actually capable of being woken up.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 10/28/2010 2:23:17 PM >

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:20:21 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
It is not liberal views that are asinine, it is the lack of understanding of the unintended consequences. Despite years of evidence and the trends in the reversal of European socialism, US liberals seemed happy to rush headlong into the same obvious mistakes.


It would then seem that it was an intended consequence for the conservatives to bankrupt the USA.

Other than that, an American liberal and European socialist are hardly likely to share the same food affinities, let alone political views.

Finally, one wonders what reversals of philosophy are being carried out in Europe, and why fox entertainment is not commenting in their common loud and obnoxious fashion upon them. 

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:22:31 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:25:44 PM   
allyC


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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Louve - I think I love you.




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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:29:47 PM   
PatrickG38


Posts: 338
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Status: offline 		Really because their sucess seems to petrify you. I do not understnad why.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:35:53 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allyC

Louve - I think I love you.



Put my name down on the love list. 

Firm




< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 10/28/2010 2:36:07 PM >

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:40:48 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Nice of you to define them, the way you see them.

However, just because you define them that way, doesn't mean that you are correct, just that you define them in such a way so as to support your own position and biases.

Just saying ...

Firm



Firm the definitions of Bigotry, and Racism BOTH from dictionary.com :

big·ot·ry   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] –noun,plural-ries

1.  stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

2.  the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.


rac·ism   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled[rey-siz-uhm]                                                     

1.  a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2.  a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3.  hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


Looks to me like Patrick got the gist of the two words correct.

Can we say "EPIC FAIL"


Seriously,
Some Knucklehead in NJ

You must have missed the key sentence where he caters to a leftist only definition:

Racism is a societal problem that can only be exercised by the dominant race

This means that, in America, only Caucasians can be racist.

This is a racist definition of "racism".  It is bigoted definition as well.

It does, however, fit in the leftists world view.

Epic fail, yourself, good buddy. 

Firm


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:48:55 PM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You must have missed the key sentence where he caters to a leftist only definition:

Racism is a societal problem that can only be exercised by the dominant race

This means that, in America, only Caucasians can be racist.

This is a racist definition of "racism".  It is bigoted definition as well.

It does, however, fit in the leftists world view.

Epic fail, yourself, good buddy. 

Firm




Uhh gee, one applies to a group dynamic the other to the single person, in most contexts.  Epic Fail my ass, not when you seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

After my last exchange with you regarding Juan Williams, I figured you to be a fucking putz, thanks for the confirmation.


Sceptically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 2:55:50 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

You must have missed the key sentence where he caters to a leftist only definition:

Racism is a societal problem that can only be exercised by the dominant race

This means that, in America, only Caucasians can be racist.

This is a racist definition of "racism".  It is bigoted definition as well.

It does, however, fit in the leftists world view.

Epic fail, yourself, good buddy. 



Uhh gee, one applies to a group dynamic the other to the single person, in most contexts.  Epic Fail my ass, not when you seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

After my last exchange with you regarding Juan Williams, I figured you to be a fucking putz, thanks for the confirmation.

So only white people can be racist?  You agree with that position?

Firm


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 3:02:55 PM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		There are two words because of an important difference in the meaning. This is the kind of silly semantic game a lot of conservatives enjoy playing. I assume we are talking about racism that is a societal problem, not the immaterial kind. This is how historians, sociologist and other educated people use the word. You will undoubtedly attack me for asserting there are relatively immaterial racisms so I must explain (this is too often necessary). As a group, non-hegemonic races can develop a group based hatred that would match one of the dictionary definitions of racism (although this is very rare, the opposed groups usually internalize the ideology of the oppressor). African and African-American slaves could have developed a group hatred of the dominant white race; indeed, one would expect (possibly hope) that a group so mistreated might develop that, but that is immaterial as a social problem unless circumstances radically change. So to assert that disenfranchised groups are capable of racism is to waste words as it is without meaning to a discussion on the behavior and actions of the dominant race.

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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 3:16:47 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PatrickG38

There are two words because of an important difference in the meaning. This is the kind of silly semantic game a lot of conservatives enjoy playing.

In other words, retreat, since you've been exposed.

Words and concepts are important.  If you define "racism" as only possible by "the dominant group" then this leads nowhere else but to the conclusion that it is a "white-only" problem and then any actions or programs should be focused on only "white" racists, and treat all "whites" as a group.

And to idiots who claim that no black, Hispanic, Asian etc, etc, etc can - by definition - be racist.

Which is patently and demonstrably false.

Definitions have meaning and impact.  You twist them to support your beliefs and your agenda, and you've been caught, now claiming "semantics!".  That what you lefties always claim when the truth is shoved in your face.

Firm


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 3:23:55 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		to say that this is one partys  reasoning is utter bullshit
EOS
racism, bigotry and wordgames are played by both sides,  this dick waving over subjective definitions is getting really dumb


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RE: Is all American conservatism based upon fear? - 10/28/2010 3:31:39 PM   
PatrickG38


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Status: offline 		You really are just dumb. I must concur with pogo. I do not waste NY time discussing immaterial issues. Educated people know the difference between a societal problem and an individual one. Get an education then return.

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