Holographic Universe? (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 6:04:31 PM)

As some of you may be aware, I've been following some of the strange theories that have grown out of quantum theory, especially as it may relate to some human experiences that seem to defy easy scientific explanation.

You can read my last thread about some of those theories here ("Physics, Psychics, Religion and "Spooky Things").

One of those theories is the theory of the "holographic universe", and I ran across an  interesting article tonight:

Fermilab is Building a 'Holometer' to Determine Once and For All Whether Reality Is Just an Illusion
By Clay Dillow Posted 10.21.2010 at 12:15 pm

Researchers at Fermilab are building a “holometer” so they can disprove everything you thought you knew about the universe. More specifically, they are trying to either prove or disprove the somewhat mind-bending notion that the third dimension doesn’t exist at all, and that the 3-D universe we think we live in is nothing more than a hologram. To do so, they are building the most precise clock ever created.

The universe-as-hologram theory is predicated on the idea that spacetime is not perfectly smooth, but becomes discrete and pixelated as you zoom in further and further, like a low-res digital image. This idea isn’t novel; recent experiments in black-hole physics have offered evidence that this may be the case, and prominent physicists have proposed similar ideas. Under this theory, the universe actually exists in two dimensions and the third is an illusion produced by the intertwining of time and depth. But the false third dimension can’t be perceived as such, because nothing travels faster than light, so instruments can’t find its limits.

A little more technical explanation can be found here:

The Fermilab Holometer

The Holographic Interferometer, or Holometer, is a machine designed to test a particular idea about how space, time, matter, and energy behave on the very smallest scales. ...

If there is a minimum interval of time, or a maximum frequency in nature, there is a corresponding limit on the fidelity of space and time.

...

More recently, theoretical studies of black holes, and later in string theory and other forms of unification, have suggested that physics on the Planck scale is holographic. It is conjectured that space is two dimensional, and the third dimension is inextricably linked with time. If so, our three-dimensional world is a kind of approximate illusion that emerges only on scales much larger than the Planck length.

It could be that the illusion is imperfect and blurry. The maximum frequency may introduce a particular kind of noise or jitter into spacetime, as measured by the propagation of light in different directions.

The holometer attempts a direct experimental test of one form of this hypothesis.

Results may start to be available as soon as next year.

Firm




popeye1250 -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 6:08:32 PM)

I always thought it was interesting that our eyes actually see things "upsidedown."
Then when that information gets processed by the brain it converts it to rightside up.




kdsub -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 9:16:13 PM)

I don't mean to turn this thread toward religion but these type posts have me thinking about what is scientific proof and can it be depended on to be the absolute true answer to the universe.

I see many threads on religion where some posters insist that God does not exist because this existence can not be proven by scientific methods and proofs. They point to science to measure and quantify the observable universe as the only possible reality. They refuse to admit there is a possibility that their hard held idea of reality is dead wrong and not a valid method of proving anything let alone the non-existence of God.

As science struggles to understand the seemingly impossible properties of our universe God seems a lot less of a fairytale after all….at least not anymore impossible than spontaneous creation and many of the new theories being considered.

Butch




Arpig -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 9:19:58 PM)

Way the fuck over my head this time Firm....whooosh!




FirmhandKY -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 9:20:35 PM)

Butch,

Not a hijack at all, but exactly on topic.

And a great post.

Firm




FirmhandKY -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 9:23:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Way the fuck over my head this time Firm....whooosh!


[:D]

Ok, Arpig, try this ....

It may be that all reality is an illusion, a mirage, and does not exist in any shape or form that we currently believe.

Shades of Carlos Castaneda ...

We all live on the Holodeck of STNG.

Firm




pogo4pres -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 9:40:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Ok, Arpig, try this ....

It may be that all reality is an illusion, a mirage, and does not exist in any shape or form that we currently believe.

Shades of Carlos Castaneda ...

We all live on the Holodeck of STNG.

Firm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIadtFJYWhw

This anything like Carl Sagan's postulations on "flatland"???  Sagan was rather a bit ahead of the curve if you ask me.



Dimensionally,
Some Knucklehead in NJ




Fellow -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/28/2010 11:14:00 PM)

quote:

I see many threads on religion where some posters insist that God does not exist because this existence can not be proven by scientific methods and proofs. They point to science to measure and quantify the observable universe as the only possible reality. They refuse to admit there is a possibility that their hard held idea of reality is dead wrong and not a valid method of proving anything let alone the non-existence of God.

As science struggles to understand the seemingly impossible properties of our universe God seems a lot less of a fairytale after all….at least not anymore impossible than spontaneous creation and many of the new theories being considered.


Scientific method actually mostly disproves hypotheses and theories. We can talk about "proof" only inside an existing paradigm. The atheists most often deal with concrete Biblical God ["true believers"]. The atheists do not disprove or prove, they simply say the God is not necessary to explain natural phenomena. I do agree, the string theory allows speculation about God better than old "materialism" where there was a solid particle basis to the Universe. As Prof. Michio Kaku says: the Universe is as a symphony played on vibrating super strings. God would be then a Maestro.




Real0ne -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 12:04:46 AM)



that borders on psuedo-science.

The combination of the words space-time is one of my favorite oxymorons to poke fun at.

Ok so subtracting all the bullshit psuedo lingo they are trying to measure interference of tem waves.

For what?  to see how far we can transmit a signal before being forced into teslas lem world?  LOL






TheRaptorJesus -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 12:40:35 AM)

I still have an old holographic Charizard.

I think it's worth $30.




Real0ne -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 2:36:28 AM)

it will be interesting to see if he understood what I said and can respond without avoidance. LOL




DarkSteven -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 4:45:58 AM)

Dammit, Firm, I just come here for the pictures of nekkid ladies.  Your post makes my head hurt.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 5:40:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

it will be interesting to see if he understood what I said and can respond without avoidance. LOL

R0 ... I'm never sure what you are saying.

I would, however, highly recommend anything by Michael Shermer, but especially The Borderlands of Science: Where Sense Meets Nonsense.

Firm




FirmhandKY -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 5:41:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Dammit, Firm, I just come here for the pictures of nekkid ladies.  Your post makes my head hurt.

[:D]

Expanding our minds often causes us pain, DS!

Firm




mnottertail -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 5:55:49 AM)

I am betting towards the pixilation.  If a still shot running say 32 times a second, slomo around 24 provides an illusion that it moves smoothly in film, I would think it is not a far stretch to assume that near light speed is going to do some visual prestidigital wonders in our heads. 




Musicmystery -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 8:35:07 AM)

quote:

It may be that all reality is an illusion, a mirage, and does not exist in any shape or form that we currently believe.

Shades of Carlos Castaneda ...


And Buddha, Plato, the Vedas, the Aborigines, Lao Tzu . . .




mnottertail -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 8:39:03 AM)

and dont forget Jimmy Ruffin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zCz8SKmGek




DomKen -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 9:36:12 AM)

FR
Yet another in the long line of reasons science journalists should learn some science.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 2:23:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

FR
Yet another in the long line of reasons science journalists should learn some science.

Please grace us with your exalted and effusive knowledge, oh, great all knowing god of science and wisdom.

Us lowly peons thirst for your most excellent illuminating light and error-less guidance ....

[8D]

Firm




DomKen -> RE: Holographic Universe? (10/29/2010 3:49:45 PM)

Such sarcasm.

I'll be glad to enlighten you but first prove you understand enough about the subject to discuss it, why, in simple terms, are all the dimensions of space inextricably tied into time? This little exercise will at least prove to me that you do or don't know the first thing wrong with the article you quoted.

After the multi page affair where it turned out you didn't know what constant acceleration was I think it best to make sure you actually know at least a little about the subject at hand.




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