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State decisions are based on statistics - so where are ... - 11/1/2010 2:53:48 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		I see a lot of arguing about our government's decisions based on the behavior of the masses.

It's all behavioral psychology.

Based on studies. But aside from peer review, which is potluck really - depends on whose pet theories you're stepping on as to whether it gets a reasonable level of challenge.

One thing I don't see a lot of are groundbreaking studies getting repeated. That's supposed to be a keystone of the scientific process, right? Repeat the same experiments, get the same results?

I want to know if anyone's doing anything about this. A standard rating system for study results, in psychology. Is there such a beast? I haven't seen signs of one...

Who's watching the watchers?

(Aside from everybody, but they don't count. Too much noise is the same as none.)

Bad science leads to bad decisions based on the science. Leads to bad statesmanship. Can anyone convince me there's hope?


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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 7:49:30 AM   
habonia


Posts: 10
Joined: 11/1/2010
Status: offline 		Of course no one is watching the watchers - that's why we are in the state of affairs we have now. 80% of politicians and policy makers are corrupt, 19% are just stupid, and the last 1% (giving the benefit of the doubt because I am an eternal optimist ;) are ineffective because they can't punch through the stupidity and corruption. Honest, intelligent people don't run for political office because the system is too corrupt. I don't see how that can change given the confines of the current system.

Politicians do what will keep them in office and get the campaign contributions so they can stay in office. They may say they base policy decisions on studies, but that is bunk. The beauty of statistics is that one can skew them in a way to support any point, and that is what happens. It IS bad science, bad statesmanship, and bad policy.

That being said, I will continue to vote and make my voice heard. I certainly don't want the politicians to think that the majority are right wing, ultra-fundamentalist Christian Tea Party crazies :)

Absolute power corrupts absolutely - Niccolo Machiavelli

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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 7:51:26 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: habonia
Absolute power corrupts absolutely - Niccolo Machiavelli


I heard THAT!
Richard Milhouse Nixon

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 7:56:06 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Not Machiavelli....nor Nixon .....Lord Acton.

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 8:04:52 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

Absolute power corrupts absolutely
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not Machiavelli....nor Nixon .....Lord Acton.


Very true.  But Machiavelli did espouse a similar idea nearly four centuries earlier in "The Prince".  He just wasn't as pithy about it. 

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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 8:18:26 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Treasure my understanding of "The Prince" is a little bit different(and if I'm wrong I apologise) but wasn't Machiavelli's Prince corrupt to begin with? Does he not use every shady method available to obtain power? And if so where in that is an example of power corruopting?Isn't the very term "machiavellan" now understood to denote scheming ,duplicitous and underhanded methods in an attempt to consolidate and amass power?
Whereas I take the quote ...."power corrupts....absolute power corrupts absolutely" to illustrate how even someone with good intentions can be swayed by the intoxicating influences of having power.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 8:24:53 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Isn't the latter quote from G.I.Joe or something? heh.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 9:58:21 AM   
habonia


Posts: 10
Joined: 11/1/2010
Status: offline 		My mistake, you are correct, it was Lord Acton - but Machiavelli espoused similar ideas centuries earlier, albeit from a different perspective. Machiavelli's message to his prince was to do what was necessary to keep power and rule the people. This meant using kindness if possible but fear if necessary. We as advocates of democracy would call this corruption, but within the confines of the royal system in place in renaissance Italy it was simply the way things worked.

I stand by the idea that "power" is a corrupting influence and no one in power escapes its impact. In one's personal life this may or may not be a desirable thing but in the public sector it is the number one reason for term limits :)

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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 10:54:23 AM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		Statistics? Where did THAT come from?

Decisions are made based on a combination of polls and campaign contributors' wishes.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/1/2010 11:40:49 AM   
habonia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Statistics? Where did THAT come from?

Decisions are made based on a combination of polls and campaign contributors' wishes.


quote:

Decisions are made based on a combination of polls and campaign contributors' wishes.


This is true...that statistics come in when pollsters get their numbers just the way they want them by polling particular groups who are statistically apt to give the answer the pollster is looking for or wording their polls in such a way as to skew the results in their own favor.

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RE: State decisions are based on statistics - so where ... - 11/2/2010 10:22:08 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes... not always.

Sometimes it's based on teh scienz.

Probably would be more based on it if people felt it could be relied upon, instead of just lies and damned lies.

More, the media these days heavily relies on statistics. "Figures show..." "On the average..." "Our schools is failins', it's THE ECONOMY!"

shi--er, Stuff like that makes me sad. Not that there is or isn't a problem - but that most people can't tell because nobody's been keeping the crystal balls clean and polished. Thus this thread.


_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to habonia)
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