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Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 9:52:34 AM

CrappyDom

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I am a woodworker and am considering creating a line of S&M toys. I have made many of my own toys and when I have chosen to give them as gifts, they have always been well recieved.

I am curious what people feel could be improved with the current stuff on the market, what they would like to see that isn't available, as well as anything along those lines.

What I envisioning is a line of well crafted items that are well thought out, unusual, and of course made of the finest woods and craftsmanship.

Also, in my humble opinion the websites I see are either too commercial and sanitary but at least load fast and are intuitive to use, or even worse, use every cheap internet trick and are too hard to read, too slow to load, and or other problems.

Here are a couple of teasers of the sort of items I make.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/crappydom/peg.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g34/crappydom/bar.jpg

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 10:03:28 AM

MistWalker

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well since i to tend to make the majority of our gear, that i have the resorces to anyway.. i appreciate a well made toy,and hamd made at that. when i do venture into the realm of shopping though, honestly my largest gripe about gear is price.. seeing peices i know well could be made in a few hours time, with little cost in materials sold for 10 times what it cose to make.. and i realize there are markups, theres tiem involved in makeing things,and keeping items in stock ect.. ...eghh anyway , thats the shortcomeing i see in most toy stores price..

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 10:09:24 AM

Reasonable

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I used to craft toys professionally,extremely well made leather and metal bondage gear-Heartwood quality floggers.....etc......

But it was too difficult to make a profit after material prices skyrocketed.

I'll give a critque on what you have so far. The dildo pattern looks good-use a material that has no splinters in it-or a MUCH denser hardwood.

As far as the handle-fancy, but a straight one with finials works better than your attempt. In a wrist extension,that bulge you have at the back is going to chafe the heel of the hand and wrist. And if anyone drops that metal loop on the floor-you are asking for the entire handle to split. Try using a soft lanyard instead.

Key word of advice here-function before form.

Just making a thing LOOK cool dosn't mean it is.

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 11:11:35 AM

CrappyDom

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Reasonable,

I understand exactly what you mean about form should follow function. However, your understanding of wood is perhaps not as good as your understanding of metal. Once wood is polished by definition you are not going to get splinters. As for hardness, pine is harder than the most hardened vagina I have ever seen. As for this wood, do you know what species it is or how hard it is?

All of the shapes on the posture bar are functional. The center curve matches the sweep of a woman's back, the short curves at the ends are to trap a woman's arms behind her back. The forces her shoulders back and justs those lovely breasts forward. As for people's wrists, this bar is only 24" and doesn't spread the arms wide enough to cause the issue you mentioned, although it might on a 36" or longer bar.

As for splitting, the cherry I made this from is strong enough it isn't likely to split. In addition, the ends of the rod have metal ferrules like a screw driver. Like I said, I know what I am doing and make things that are better thought out than most of what I have seen others make.

Someone mentioned price and I am afraid they will be even more shocked at mine. I will however have more than enough information on my site for those with talent to make their own.

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 11:29:44 AM

MistWalker

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no with Hand made items, were i know very well a Craftman put there time and efort into the item i am a little more understandable of prices being high.. my main complaint is more geared towards mass produced items, that the material and time in them may... may equal a 10th of the price... as its been said materials are not always cheep, and neither is the time put into makeing something.. my toys are not that well made, i go for function over form, i dont need it to look great but to work as intended.. its why ive only sold a few specific peices im comfortabel enough with makeing that i can make them asteticly pleasing as well as functional.. other times i simply give things away to friends that requst certian items if i have the materials on hand to make them.. no complaints yet, but free is free i supose. i thought your peices look interting at the least, just not something im particularly looking for.. i do wish you well in the endevor though.. when i become comfortabel in my own craft i supose i may begin trying to sell a peice here and there.

and an additional quick thought.. the prices, its what the market will bare, just because I dont like how much things cost and consequently dont buy much, that certianly dose not mean others wont. its what some one is obvousely willing to pay or most things would not be priced as they are.

< Message edited by MistWalker -- 4/28/2006 11:31:22 AM >

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 11:30:36 AM

Reasonable

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I have a fetish for overbuilding. It probably comes from seeing too many failures of poorly made pieces-as you will.

But on the topic of price,let me put it this way.
For a standard meduim length elkhide flogger with a woven leather over wood handle,turk's head knots and reenforced lanyard,perfectly balanced... I'd spend about six hours making one. Materials were 40 bucks.

Add in overhead costs,profit,etc...and I'd have to sell it for around 175.00 to 200.00..........

Then try to sell it. People would go into a sex shop-look at a $40.00,tiny,absolute piece of crap "bitch boy" held together with SCREWS, and scream about my prices.

I finally just threw up my hands in disgust-it wasn't worth it.

< Message edited by Reasonable -- 4/28/2006 11:37:13 AM >

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 12:11:08 PM

CrappyDom

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Reasonable,

Selling high end goods requires you to educate your clients so they understand what good craftsmanship consists of and how to recognize it. Then work with those who learn to both recognize and appreciate quality work and build a loyal customer base.

However, selling to our tiny niche market and carving out an even tinier niche only works if this isn't meant as anything other than a hobby which is what this aspect would be for me. In my case it will be the prodommes and women in general who want higher end goods that set them apart from everyone else.

Sonny Black does it, his furniture is insanely expensive but it is well made, he works hard to promote it, and his designs are well thought out and executed.

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 4/28/2006 12:17:27 PM

Reasonable

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Yes,but the Pros who can actually afford it want custom-too much bother for the most part-again,it cuts into profits unless insanely priced.

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 6/5/2006 4:23:35 AM

Ariodante

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I have a fetish for overbuilding. It probably comes from seeing too many failures of poorly made pieces-as you will.

I'm the same. After the polished brass collars on some of my floggers started to tarnish, I took to having them gold plated.

The fitting that retains the ball-chain tails on the draping flogger I call "Mr Nasty" (counting my face shot on my profule as #1, the flogger is #4) will never shed its tails unless the 3mm balls can squeeze through a 2mm gap. It's probably over-engineered but I like stuff to last.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

But on the topic of price,let me put it this way.
For a standard meduim length elkhide flogger with a woven leather over wood handle,turk's head knots and reenforced lanyard,perfectly balanced... I'd spend about six hours making one. Materials were 40 bucks.

Add in overhead costs,profit,etc...and I'd have to sell it for around 175.00 to 200.00..........

Then try to sell it. People would go into a sex shop-look at a $40.00,tiny,absolute piece of crap "bitch boy" held together with SCREWS, and scream about my prices.

I finally just threw up my hands in disgust-it wasn't worth it.

Let them scream, then tell them that your product will last for years if not decades whereas the cheap rubbish might, with care, last a few months and won't feel as good in use. You'll probably get fewer sales by not making stuff as cheaply as possible, but you'll also not get a reputation for selling junk.

There are people out there willing to spend money for quality items. That ball-chain flogger sold for $170, marked down by the seller from $188 because the buyer got other items at the same time.

I've also had problems with plagiarists, who produced inferior copies of my work with handles that looked as if they'd been turned from bits of old fence-posts and, as if determined to add insult to injury, they seemed to claim I'd made them. The addition of a monogrammed button inside the tails of my leather and thonging floggers soon stopped that nonsense; if it doesn't have a "PCD" monogram, then I hadn't made it!

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 6/5/2006 4:48:27 AM

PrincessinLatex

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Something I'd like to see more of: sturdy yet portable (meaning able to collapse) furniture. The ones that I see that advertise as portable seem to be on the flimsy side. For those with limited space or the need to make outcalls. . .it sure would be nice to have something that is aesthetically pleasing and formidable looking. An item that would look like a permanent fixure in a dungeon instead of the cheapy looking stuff that is marketed at "portable."

Something like a spanking bench or bondage table that with ease/speed (meaning I don't feel like I'm assembling it from "scratch" every time I break it down or put it back together) and easily fits into a closet, under the bed, or in the car.

Am I asking for too much? :D

P

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 6/5/2006 7:16:55 PM

Ariodante

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessinLatex

Something I'd like to see more of: sturdy yet portable (meaning able to collapse) furniture. The ones that I see that advertise as portable seem to be on the flimsy side. For those with limited space or the need to make outcalls. . .it sure would be nice to have something that is aesthetically pleasing and formidable looking. An item that would look like a permanent fixure in a dungeon instead of the cheapy looking stuff that is marketed at "portable."

Something like a spanking bench or bondage table that with ease/speed (meaning I don't feel like I'm assembling it from "scratch" every time I break it down or put it back together) and easily fits into a closet, under the bed, or in the car.

Am I asking for too much? :D

P

No, you're not asking for too much. Whilst I've been composing this reply, I've thought of four ways of making such equipment and I'm sure there are other ways of doing it.

1) Using metal saw-horse fittings to take the legs of the spanking bench, with a padded top to be fitted into the jaws of the fittings when the bench is needed.

2) Make up side and end frames, to be locked together with the fittings normally used to fit the side rails of a bed to the headboard and footboard; strips of timber on the underside of the padded top will hold everything together and reduce (if not prevent) any wobbles.

3) Make up side frames, but make the ends hinged in the middle and hinged to the side frames, so that the base can collapse easily; the bench is held rigid in use by strips on timber under the top, as in (2).

4) Make up a rigid box, some 12 or 15 inches high and pad or upholster the top. On the underside of the box, arrange sockets (possibly made from square steel tube) to take detachable legs.

Of those, (1) would be the most compact, (2) might be the most elegant in appearance, (3) might be the easiest to erect but the least compact and (4) could be made adjustable in height and the box could also be used to store paddles, etc.

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 6/9/2006 2:16:19 PM

submarriner

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Have you ever considered bondage furniture that can be passed as traditional furniture? Much of what I have seen in the line of furniture looks likes it belongs in a dungeon. While there is something to be said for the atmosphere a dungeon inspires, there is the practicality of having to live in a vanilla world with vanilla guests visiting the house. I recognize that one option would be to have a private room to play, however, it would be very versatile to have furniture that could exist in the vanilla world and be ready for play on an instant. Any ideas?

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 6/11/2006 1:20:52 PM

stlmatt

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quote:

Have you ever considered bondage furniture that can be passed as traditional furniture?

That is a very interesting idea. It wouldn't be that difficult to change vinyl to a more acceptable color. I kind of like furniture with an industrial, or artistic look. post some photos of what types of things you would be looking for so i can get a better idea. I am liking the idea of a bondage room you could walk in and not suspect anything. Out of sight out of mind.

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RE: Shortcomming of toys and what you would like to see - 6/11/2006 3:29:56 PM

QuietDragon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submarriner

Have you ever considered bondage furniture that can be passed as traditional furniture? Much of what I have seen in the line of furniture looks likes it belongs in a dungeon.

(snip snip)

Any ideas?

Hi everybody,

www.veryalternativefurniture.co.uk have a number of designs which either convert from/to "standard" looking furniture pieces into bondage furniture, or portable/compact/disassembleable (sp?) units.

Alternatively, for the inquisitive, technically adept but non-woodworking folks out there, consider steel tubing and KeeKlamp (or similar) fittings.

www.keesystems.co.uk/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=8

I have noticed a number of the fetish/bondage photographers in the UK and US now use frames and stands made out of this combination of structural steel tubing and KeeKlamps. Some suppliers of structural steel tubing supply in powdercoated colours, and the KeeKlamps are opened and locked with nothing more complicated than an Allen (hex) key.

Hope this helps.

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