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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:08:32 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful
An ongoing agreement clause to review and renew an M/s contract is essentail in my eyes. It's the only way I'd enter one.

I know this is splitting hairs, cin, but this statement above signifies to me that the agreement is temporary and that you would enter into it. Then you put this:



Having an "ON Going Agreement"  With a clause to review and renew is not necessarily a temporary agreement.

In fact Review and Renew an On-Going Agreement is about assessing the needs of the relationship and reflecting any changes at the time of the review and renewal.  Temporary would indicate that such contract is not "On-Going" and that is actually will expire or be terminated at a specified and predetermined point.  Cin's use of "On-going" to me reflects that renewal is a forgone conclusion, but that the review may result in changes to the contract.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:15:11 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		No one said anything about hitting the bricks because of hard times on either side, Tap. We're just talking about a relationship with a foreseeable expiration date. Funny thing is, most people enter into a relationship with the notion of it being forever and do exactly what you stated when times looked rocky.

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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:17:29 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		Mr. D, I can see your confusion. I think there's a big difference between knowing that stuff happens and forever isn't something that anyone can promise, and going into something with the intent to make it temporary.

I would enter an M/s contract only with the idea that our intent is to make it last as long as we both live, but add the clause as a way to help keep the commitment fresh, and voluntary. A chance to clear the air of any issues.

I wouldn't enter into an M/s contract if the person's intent was to put a time limit on it from the beginning. That wouldn't feel to me as though the person really cared enough about owning me.

Make more sense now?

Cin

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Cin

quote:


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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:23:34 PM   
Vancouver_cinful


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Joined: 2/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Cin's use of "On-going" to me reflects that renewal is a forgone conclusion, but that the review may result in changes to the contract.


Thank KoM, that was the point I was trying to make.

Cin

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quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:25:10 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I have served 3 Masters over the course of my life. All were 24/7 live in relationships...for a total of 25 years when combined. Each time I agreed to that level of servitude, I can assure you that I was certain it would be forever...and so did they. Unfortunately, however, life may have a different plan for us....for one reason or another. That is just how life happens sometimes regardless of our plans or intentions. If I should meet someone who I felt that type of connection with again, I would surely make the same decision....but only if and when I felt that forever was the destination we both had within our sights..


*chucles* again as I recall your post of all us sick people... but now to this post...

I agree with your thoughts here very much.  Nothing is forever but the intent going into a deeply commited relationship needs for me to be reflected in a desire to live out our lives together forever. However long forever happens to be.   I do not equate this to any relationship structure be it M/s D/s etc.  What matters is the intent that goes with the commitment/connection of the relationship.  I am deeply committed to my two girls "forever"... forever with alandra is almost 20 years now, with kyra she has been collared to me officially one year on the 30th. Next month when she comes home we will be celebrating it with a trip to the mountains. But our relationship has actually been going on for over a year and a half.  How much longer will forever be... I don't know... But I am intent to make it forever!

I would also add that there are often times that forever is not a realistic intent or even a wanted one.  Many causal experiences and sitautions occur that "forever" just doesn't belong in.  It really depends on the people involved and their personal situations.  I myself couldn't concive of any deep meaningful relationships occuring besides what I have already.  My hands are full.. more specifically my time!  I do not have time to devote to the depth of a "forever" type committment.  My time allows for friendships and who knows they could be forever.. but the expectations is not there for it to be forever.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:32:43 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Am I a realistic... knowing... that if and when I enter a realtionship... I know it's not forever?.... I don't go in hoping it is... i'm more the type..... i'm only here for the ride... however long it last. Sure it can be painful when it's over... but so is stubbing a toe... it's painful. I guess this is the reason.... personally... and not for all folks of course... that I do not enter TPE relationships... finacial control.... the submission that some want to give... some want to receive... is too deep to only be part time. When someone.. him or me... decides it not going further.... making the break is easier... not less painful... but a little easier... when everyones up front about it all. 

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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:39:13 PM   
JassWolf


Posts: 59
Joined: 4/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

Would you consider it to be a Master/slave relationship if the Master told the slave up front that it will not be forever?



Yes, I would.

RE: "forever" ... I would prefer a truly intense relationship rooted in authenticity of intention and emotion to a longterm gig flowing from practicality and emotions that are simply adequate. Boredom can make every day seem like it's "forever." Wouldn't you rather the sort that makes a year seem like a day?

And as several have observed ... what 'works' right now may degenerate if one partner refuses or is unable to grown in the same way.

JW

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:40:40 PM   
VvShadowspawnvV


Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		The mere thought that it might NOT last "forever" is what keeps me working my butt off to make sure it DOES... If i knew it were temporary, i am not sure i would have the motivation to work so desperately at it.  That does not mean it isn't "M/s"... and maybe i am just being lazy.
Only my thoughts.   =)

becca

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:42:57 PM   
VvShadowspawnvV


Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		OK, wait, that came out wrong-  in one sense, it IS the knowing that even "forever" can not possibly be more than 50 years, if we're lucky, that makes me try so hard... i probably won't even get 50 years with Him... darn my late start. 

becca, who thinks too much, and then rambles

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 5:47:58 PM   
darq


Posts: 443
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: under a rock
Status: offline 		Actually, I would accept ...

I believe every experience you have can teach you something and can benefit you in some way. I would appreciate his honesty and I would do my best to keep the deepest parts of my heart protected and sheltered, bearing in mind that no, this one wouldn't last for the rest of my life.

But yes, I would accept.

For the right one.

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So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts ...
Tell me, whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

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RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:08:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
Would you consider it to be a Master/slave relationship if the Master told the slave up front that it will not be forever?


Yes, my former owner made it quite clear that I could and would be sold, given away, traded or simply dismissed if it was his desire.  I accepted that and was still owned by him.


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:14:35 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, I would.

About 7 years ago, I entered into a relationship with a married woman who was new to D/s BDSM. She and her husband had been into swinging but she'd grown tired of it. She was interested in submitting, we clicked, and we began. Her husband knew about me, I knew about him, we even became friends. Through the two years we were together, I taught her things, we learned from each other, we loved each other and both of us knew that it was not forever. Her husband was her past, present and future...I was her "now and tomorrow". Due to us being honest with each other upfront, I found that I could deal with it better than I had ever thought I could, in terms of being there for someone and being supportive of their learning and their trials and tribulations outside the D/s relationship as well as within it and so much more and yet...not fall in love enough to be devastated when it was over. Heart-hurt but not devastated. It was over the day she told me that my teaching and her learning and her life with her husband had helped her to realize she was dominant...that the only one she ever felt submissive to in any setting was me. I was sad but proud and happy at the same time.

I have a harder time when a submissive enters into a D/s contract with a dominant and shares the good times and in all the romance of "I love you...I would give my all for you...I want to serve you forever...etc." and the hard times (and get through them) but then, when it comes time to get to the nitty-gritty...relocation for them (and speaking personally here, yes, they know that when I start with them that it will come up if things progress between us) or moving in together or entering into a deeper contract (but not one beyond their limits)...and suddenly, the relationship "isn't working for them" or "i don't know why but I am having trouble feeling my submission (not just to you but to ANYONE always seems to get thrown in there). And by the by, I have a hard time with dominants who do that same thing ... but from where I stand, you can understand that I have seen and heard of it happening more often with submissives.

My two cents...YMMV.

"When you want to tell me you love me, stop and think about all you know about me and about what I've said that love means to me...if you still love me then, then tell me."

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:15:42 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

We're just talking about a relationship with a foreseeable expiration date.


If this type of limited relationship works for the people involved, what is the problem?  There are no guarantees - your life, your happiness, and yes, even "true love", these things can change in an instant.  Just because a relationship doesn't fit the ideals that many have, that doesn't make it a bad thing, it's just different.  That's not always a good reason to deny yourself an experience with that partner.  Just something to consider.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:23:29 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		If I knew up front, that no matter what sort of service I provided, it was not going to be good enough to be kept, I would not allow myself to get into a situation that has no where to go. I would be willing to bottom and retain my own power, however. I would be willing to submit for a temporary period of time, but I could not be enslaved with the knowledge in my head that it could never last.

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:30:29 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I see at least one responsibility issue here-depending on the term and sort of service. The support provisions made for release. The slave needs a start up fund with 12 to 15 grand in it,minmum. If she works outside of the house,she contributes to it. If not,her Owner does. The account is in her name,and he cannot touch it.

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:36:38 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I've been around this planet for far too many decades not to understand that people grow and sometimes grow apart... I want a girl for ever.. HELL YES!.. Forever that we both feel the same or better about our relationship than we do now.... Forever means I want you untill life deals us another hand.. Forever means you better not die before I do and I will be here to watch the next two milleniums come and go..... Forever means in my belief system that we will be together life after life after life if you have bonded to me.... I'm a selfish bastard and I'll challange the Gods to dispute this with me! There Can Only Be One ... The two or three were made one by their bonding and love.


< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/28/2006 6:37:51 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:39:21 PM   
darq


Posts: 443
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: under a rock
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable

I see at least one responsibility issue here-depending on the term and sort of service. The support provisions made for release. The slave needs a start up fund with 12 to 15 grand in it,minmum. If she works outside of the house,she contributes to it. If not,her Owner does. The account is in her name,and he cannot touch it.


I've always thought this was a wonderful idea but I've never met a Dom who was willing to follow through with it.

_____________________________

So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts ...
Tell me, whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

I speak my mind because it hurts to bite my tongue.

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:44:02 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe I am tainted, but nothing guarantees forever.  I know I will belong to my Master as long as I am pleasing to him.  He has never promised me "forever," nor have I asked for it, but as long as I continue to be the slave he enjoys, I will be his indefinitely.

Having said that, if, before he took ownership of me, he said it was only to be for a limited period of time, I don't think I could ever have fully given myself over.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:45:52 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a rather harsh pragmatist..  I don't view a slave as a romantic partner. And it's never going to go there for me-so if something goes awry due to emotional issues-I want us both to have an out. Service costs,no matter how altruisticly you may wish to view an M/s dynamic.

Foerever is a crock of crap-any of us could croak in the next ten seconds-what then? Have someone who's served me with excellence out on the street with no resources?

Certainly not-I have better sense than that. I cannot imagine how any reliable master could ask a slave to give up everything-with no safety net whatsoever.

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: M/s but not forever - 4/28/2006 6:46:27 PM   
VvShadowspawnvV


Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		That's our agreement- "Forever and ever- as long as you're good."

becca

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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