RE: On the Torture of Others ?

RE: On the Torture of Others ? (Full Version)

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xssve -> RE: On the Torture of Others ? (12/18/2010 6:32:17 AM)
I think the way the term radical feminists is used in this context, Lucienne, is to refer to the separatists - all sex is rape, etc., i.e., those unwilling to compromise, which is the usual definition of radical. These women can only see themselves as victims, albeit, most of them come from a generation when patriarchal authority was largely institutional and unquestioned, and god only knows what they've been through - point is, they don't have as much experience with the sort of dog-eat-dog free for all that is a bit more characteristic of the current political economy, where many of us are actually trying to find ways to co-operate because we're tired of fighting. And for better or worse, porn is all about co-operation between the sexes - even in rape and violent porn the actresses are not actually being raped, they are participating consensually, and most people have enough intelligence to tell reality from fantasy. In fact, some studios, like I think its Kink.com, who do Everything Butt, and number of other BDSM oriented series, they make it a point to show the models making nice at the end of of the vid or series, in order to dispell any possible misconceptions.

DarkSteven -> RE: On the Torture of Others ? (12/18/2010 6:45:29 AM)
quote: I love radical feminists, especially the ones who want to decide for other women what they can or can't do with their bodies quote: ORIGINAL: cejohnsonsr Please. What happened at Abu Graib was not torture. It was well deserved humiliation at best. Ed No, Ed. The responses you get to your posts here are going to be humiliating. And richly well deserved. What happened at Abu Ghraib was humiliation AND torture. And note that a lot of detainees at Abu Ghraib had not actually done anything against US troops. They had not had a trial, after all.

xssve -> RE: On the Torture of Others ? (12/18/2010 6:55:01 AM)
The medium is message here - much of what was done at Abu Graib was in the interests of accumulating Blackmail material on the victims for later use - so two things: we had an administration that considered Blackmail a viable option for social control, and was incapable of taking responsibility for it - i.e., prosecuting the patsy, the semi-retarded private, Lindy England, as the "mastermind", as if. It did nothing for my faith in that administration, but then these are the same guys who thought funeral-gate, i.e., defrauding grieving families, charging them for services rendered while stacking uncle Fred in the woodshed to rot was good business. Apparently, no fraud is too petty for that lot.

LadyConstanze -> RE: On the Torture of Others ? (12/18/2010 6:57:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne Feminists have been fighting amongst themselves about porn for a generation and the sex positive side (porn isn't inherently bad) has pretty much won. I imagine there are women who would qualify as "radical" feminists in your book who are not anti-porn unless that position is your sole criteria for the "radical" label. Pray tell how you know about what qualifies in my book as radical, when I replied to another poster about a rather specific issue? I consider myself a feminist but I'm leery of the label, so I think certain feminists do the movement a massive disfavour, namely those who are trying to oppress women who don't fall into the mold they would like them to be, or those who are trying to replace the oppression of women by doing the same to men. They're doing women in general such a massive disfavour because who on earth can take them seriously? I don't want them fighting for what they perceive to be right for me. I'm getting a bit tired of so called feminists who are accusing men of all the evils in the world and try to make it a "them against us" issue, I enjoy a lot of things that some feminists would see as typical "female" tasks, because I like cooking it doesn't mean I can't hold my own in a meeting or it means I'm destined to be a housewife. I also can't stand those "feminists" who freak out if a guy shows manners and accuse him of being condescending. Any man knows that I'm perfectly capable of opening my own doors, pulling out my own chair and that him walking on the outside of the sidewalk is not going to make much of a difference if a car or a bus crashes into us, it's still nice to see manners and it doesn't make me weak or an object. I'm all for equal rights and pay, but what the radical feminists often propose has nothing to do with equality, they are trying to take away rights, harden the frontiers and achieve nothing. In terms of porn and sex, yes, in a couple of Scandinavian countries you do have radical feminists, great, so a woman who actually wants to be a prostitute (and some women want it, if they want that, who am I tell them they can't do what they like with their bodies?) isn't prosecuted because she is seen as a victim, the guys who employ her services can be prosecuted - how on earth does that work? 2 people decide consensually that they want to trade money for sex, it's nobody's freaking business but their own. I don't want to be in porn, I don't want to work as a prostitute, I don't think anybody should be forced to do so, but if somebody WANTS to, all the more power to them. I hope with all my heart they are having fun and getting a lot of money for it!

Aneirin -> RE: On the Torture of Others ? (12/18/2010 10:02:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cejohnsonsr Please. What happened at Abu Graib was not torture. It was well deserved humiliation at best. Ed From what I understand from my research into the subject, the methods of humiliation were designed such that they degraded the religion, every thing that they hold dear, was abused, so it was not so much degrading the people, but degrading what they believe in. And to understand, 80 to 90 % of the prisoners had done nothing wrong, they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But there is clear evidence of torture, the case of Manadel Al Jamadi proves this, he died of asphixiation due to a method called Palestinian Crucifixion, which is usually an execution method, but in this case was used for torture. There are many more cases if one chooses to look To understand, Jesus Christ had a trial before he was crucified, these people did not have that luxury, so in effect, they were murdered whether that was intentional is open to speculation, but one thing is clear, the torturers can't be kinksters, for they seemed clueless as to the care of their victims. But hey, life is cheap, it's just the enemy, they don't matter, because they are just the 'others', objects to use for amusement.

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