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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/29/2010 7:10:18 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfenstraat

No and no. You have failed to get anything but the least of my attention. Try harder...or shut up.

How's about I report you for the firearm?

Prin,

I will make a guess it isn't real... (although he might not know that ... he's quite mixed up about a lot of things).

Maybe he should wise up:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/man-sentenced-for-brandishing-fake-firearm-458273.html

http://insidethem60.journallocal.co.uk/2010/07/man-who-brandished-a-fake-gun-in-a-didsbury-pub-is-jailed/

http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-08-11/crime/24626324_1_fake-gun-freeway-chp-unit http://www.theargus.co.uk

/news/4864857.print/

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/29/2010 3:07:03 PM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfenstraat
Where's the sadistic young lady who can cut with a word?

Real live switch reporting for duty. I'll need to dissect you before I can distill it down to "a" word.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/29/2010 3:14:34 PM

SexyBossyBBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
I can hear the strict dominant or sub gasping for a breath at this statement but please realize not everyone has that set of rigid set of rules.

I used to be that strict in my thinking, because I associated doing with being. It was difficult to be like that, without experience, and no inclination to try the often given advice: you should be a submissive first, to learn how to be a better dominant.
What I needed was practice of what I'd read, and sometimes learning from him/them. Books are great, but they are no replacement for real human contact, watching and feeling actions, and reactions in the flesh.

quote:

I think SexyBossyBBW gives a great example where topping from the bottom occurs and is welcomed. A Domme who wants to learn but has limited experience but has a sub who has lots of experience and is available to play. As an experienced sub I love to share what I know with others even if that means I top from the bottom. For me topping from the bottom is not a bad thing. Whatever the 2 people playing agree on is what is important. :)

I agree, and thanks. I don't want to give the impression however, that I would enjoy topping from the bottom ever, unless/until I told him to. M

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/30/2010 5:14:24 PM

EbonBetta

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If dom has had multiple subs and accused most of them to be topping from the bottom perhaps she really is not as capable as she claims ?

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/30/2010 5:20:56 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonBetta

If dom has had multiple subs and accused most of them to be topping from the bottom perhaps she really is not as capable as she claims ?

Or somebody with experience could tell him that it is quite common and you deal with it and stop it, or let them go. Somebody claiming that they are submissive doesn't make them submissive, unless in their fantasies, which just doesn't do it for me.

There's hardly a sub who hasn't tried to top from the bottom, a pretty natural thing, who wouldn't if they think they can get away with it? They're testing out the dominant partner as much as the dominant tests out them...

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/30/2010 5:23:41 PM

Aynne88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wulfenstraat

What? Is that all you got? Are you just playing at domination? Isn't there one true dominant among you? Where's the sadistic young lady who can cut with a word? Yeah, it's what I thought. There's no more BDSM here, because the D dominants and S sadists have left the room. All that's left is what's in between, only B**M, only the occasional Bowel Movement.

Your little fake gun picture is cute though. By the way even if it were real, which I don't believe it is, any responsible gun owner never ever poses with their finger on the trigger. Duh... That just makes you look sad. And incompetent. Go to the gun thread in the Off Topic section and see how you are supposed to hold a firearm. It isn't a toy.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/30/2010 8:11:39 PM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Somebody claiming that they are submissive doesn't make them submissive, unless in their fantasies, which just doesn't do it for me.

Someone claiming to be Dominant doesnt make them dominant either. Im always curious about those who claim such status, yet cant seem to understand why a sub may top from the bottom. Could it be lack of experience? Sure. It could also be that the one claiming to be the top isnt.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/30/2010 8:43:26 PM

Twoshoes

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They only actually top from the side—you see—and usually diagonally. You can tell by the trilinear projection of their will onto places you never knew could be topped! Oh, yes, they are very, very sneaky like that. To circumvent this unforseen vulnerability, you should only dominate them at an appropriate angle, which causes all their influence to bounce off even surfaces and out the nearest window. If you lack windows... may these subs have mercy on your soul once they really have you. *Shudder* They will get you! Oh, no, one has spotted me. *Runs away screeling in terror*

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/30/2010 9:03:42 PM

Capndependable

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

It looks like a monthy python diatribe.

He's just pining for the fjords..

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/31/2010 5:43:21 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Somebody claiming that they are submissive doesn't make them submissive, unless in their fantasies, which just doesn't do it for me.

Someone claiming to be Dominant doesnt make them dominant either. Im always curious about those who claim such status, yet cant seem to understand why a sub may top from the bottom. Could it be lack of experience? Sure. It could also be that the one claiming to be the top isnt.

Did you neglect the rest of my post on purpose? I mean where I explained that the topping from the bottom is a way of testing boundaries?

Personally a bit of it, I don't mind because it gives me a better understanding of a sub and the dynamic they are after, not everybody is good in phrasing it, often people aren't even aware that they are doing it, it helps in reading the other person. To a certain degree I don't mind, but I am not interested in people who deem a dominant as somebody who forces another to submit, who wants to be pushed into submitting by force, it's nothing that does anything for, not the dynamic I am looking for. Personally I don't think I need to engage in it to fulfill some stereotype of dominant, if it's not my game then it would be rather weak and in fact submissive to engage in something I don't enjoy, just so somebody - who I possibly don't even want to interact with as for me it would not be pleasurable - will call me dominant. Dominant is nothing I have to put on for others, it means I'm in charge of my life and a scene, if it's not the scene the other person looks for, we are not compatible. I prefer to disengage and engage with somebody I enjoy playing with.

I'm more interested in the SM part, the D/s is not the main interest, it's something I expect, there were situations when somebody who claimed to be a sub messed up on purpose or ignored an order to manipulate me into "punishing" him, always strikes me as a child who's doing something naughty to get attention, not my thing. If that happens I mention it, if it happens again and again and I get the "Well force me..." I disengage because it shows we are incompatible and that's the kind of topping from the bottom I can't stand. Now of course some will decide that it's not dominant, to be honest, I couldn't care less. I don't live my life to please people that have no place in my life. I make sure that they know what I want, if they agree, I take their interests into consideration because I believe a good relationship (be it vanilla or BDSM) will only work if both are getting something out of it, we test drive, it might not work and if I don't think the effort required to make it work is in correlation with the reward, it's better to part ways. For some another dynamic might work, it doesn't for me, because mainly I am not looking for a life partner but play partners, different thing.

A certain amount of trying to top from the bottom - normal, expected, I deal with it, if it gets to the point where somebody does it to try and make me angry, it's a no go and I don't give in, that for me would be weakness. Now if somebody has been told of the consequences of actions and is still doing it, the consequences have to follow or it is weakness. They're then better off looking for somebody who is willing to engage in the dynamic they are looking for, I am better off with somebody who doesn't try to annoy me on purpose.

Might not work for everybody, works for me though and at the end of the day I am responsible for my own happiness, nobody else.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/31/2010 5:53:53 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

Did you neglect the rest of my post on purpose? I mean where I explained that the topping from the bottom is a way of testing boundaries?

No, i didnt ignore the rest of your post. In fact, i was agreeing with you, merely turning the phrase to include both sides of the equation. Often the phrase is expressed about submissives who attempt to "top from the bottom" like its a bad thing regardless of the why behind it. Dominants test, why is it bad for submissives to do the same? I just find it hard to believe that all this "topping from the bottom" is going on and its all the submissives fault. I know a few who bottom from the top. Interesting concept... yet spoken so little about.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/31/2010 5:55:04 AM

CerVeza

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Topping from the bottom saddens Me. I would instruct to cease that behavior and if it didn't end, I would have to say goodbye.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 12/31/2010 6:09:02 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No, i didnt ignore the rest of your post. In fact, i was agreeing with you, merely turning the phrase to include both sides of the equation. Often the phrase is expressed about submissives who attempt to "top from the bottom" like its a bad thing regardless of the why behind it. Dominants test, why is it bad for submissives to do the same? I just find it hard to believe that all this "topping from the bottom" is going on and its all the submissives fault. I know a few who bottom from the top. Interesting concept... yet spoken so little about.

Ooops sorry, misunderstood then...

Testing boundaries happens in every relationship and I'd rather have a sub telling me if something is not working for him/her than suffering stoically through it and then the atmosphere isn't just as great, a lot of them are shy of doing so and then try to top from the bottom. Some topping from the bottom can actually be helpful, it's what's behind it that counts, if it is just to make the top angry and manipulate him or her all the time, it's awful and a no go thing.

I'm pretty sure that I have "bottomed from the top" for some of the purists, because to play with somebody, even casually, I need to like that person, the energy feedback is important, I really can't describe it, but sometimes the reactions of a sub or a bottom were so fantastic that I enjoyed some things I usually don't care much about, if that makes sense?

One of the odd things is, I always thought that during a scene I learn so much about the other person, I actually think I learned even more about myself.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/8/2011 9:00:09 AM

txurinal

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Yes. Communication from the bottom is important so that the TOP knows what is happening and if the bottom is in distress. Yes. Limits need to be discussed and agreed upon before a session is begun.

With these considerations in mind, then once begun, it is what the TOP says or wants. Subs top from the bottom because they are allowed to do so and allowed to get away with it.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/8/2011 9:05:06 AM

sexyred1

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Yes it is fairly simple to answer: because they CAN.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/8/2011 9:14:35 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
I'm more interested in the SM part, the D/s is not the main interest, it's something I expect, there were situations when somebody who claimed to be a sub messed up on purpose or ignored an order to manipulate me into "punishing" him, always strikes me as a child who's doing something naughty to get attention, not my thing. If that happens I mention it

I'm always curious when a dominant says they don't discuss this ahead of time. But waits until it occurs to come down on the sub. And if there's no procedure available for a sub to get their needs met, why be surprised when they try this? Why not talk about it first in the future? Find out ahead of time if they enjoy force play and that you therefore aren't compatible? Talk about how to ask for what they need and assure them they will get it when you are available?

Because if someone has physical needs and some people do need pain play on a fairly regular schedule to stay on an even keel, and they are forbidden to ask to get it met, aren't allowed to initiate play, then how are they to get the needs met? Telling them they can only have it when they don't need it doesn't work. Any more than telling someone they can only eat when they aren't hungry.

It is the dominant's job to lead the relationship, if this is a power relationship. And that includes figuring out a way for people to get their needs met and to provide a safe environment to talk about those needs.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/8/2011 11:34:27 AM

LadyConstanze

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You obviously haven't dealt with a lot of guys looking for a dominant, you can discuss whatever you want beforehand, it doesn't mean they're honest with you. A lot of them are desperate to find A domme, of course they try to camouflage it by telling you it's just YOU, but they will tell you what they think you want to hear.

You know being the dominant doesn't turn you into a psychic where you can tell if a person is lying to you. It's a nice fantasy subbies have, but unfortunately not very realistic. You have to test drive, I mean how many times have you read in the Mistress Forum that all we ask for is a person being honest? Why do you think we ask that? Definitely not because the subbies are always honest, I prefer if somebody does tell you what their needs are, but if somebody does tell you they are just service orientated and they want to serve, they will swear that is their thing and then they will mess up to get punished - would be far better if they say they need pain, but as I said, not everybody is always honest.

The ratio of dominant females and submissive males is also so that there are a lot more subs are about and they think if they are "in" they won and then they can push their agenda.

quote:

It is the dominant's job to lead the relationship, if this is a power relationship. And that includes figuring out a way for people to get their needs met and to provide a safe environment to talk about those needs.

I find that a really lazy attitude, it's the job of everybody in the relationship to make it work, and if they are not honest it is definitely not my job to change them, who the hell is the dominant and who the submissive? Do you think it's submissive to lean back and let somebody else do all the work or do you think it's dominant bending over backwards pleasing the sub?

I said a few times that I believe people have to get something out of a relationship, but this whole putting everything on the dominant partner doesn't work for me, if subs can't be honest about their needs, it's not my job to make it work, my job is then to terminate the relationship and send them on their merry way.

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/9/2011 12:03:33 AM

NihilusZero

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Despite the haywire detours this thread seems to have taken (to be fair, likely started in the OP itself), the question itself is an interesting one.

The short, short answer is that there are enough D-types who enjoy/permit/encourage the varying permutations of this phenomenon (or at least the way they manifest) that the process catches on, popularly speaking.

That, of course, is disregarding those who cannot dissociate their intellectual competence and human individuality from a brash, aggressive demeanor (but there are D-types who like that as well).

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/9/2011 12:26:03 AM

GreedyTop

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RE: Why Subs Top from the Bottom - 1/9/2011 12:29:06 AM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~

*TACKLEHUGS NZ*!!!!!!!!!!!

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:) *hugs* Ditto, miss.

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