RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts?

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barelynangel -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:00:20 PM)
Wait a minute let me understand this: she works 28 hours a week!! I completely missed that. you work PART-TIME??? You make a dollar above minimum wage in Kansas which is $7.25 an hour. So you make $231 per week. That's you make You have sat here whinging over this when you could probably go out and get a minimum wage full time job that would allow you 1) make 290 a week, 2) you probably won't have to work graveyard, 3) you wouldn't be sleep deprived, and finally 4) i doubt they would have monthly meetings that would effect your sleep. I mean seriously, i don't get it. If your job is this miserable as you and now this other person is indicating it is, and soo hard and you never get any sleep, i don't get why you don't quit. Hell even working 28 hours part time at minimum wage would only knock your paycheck by $28 bucks a month. You could probably get a job in a bar waitressing or bartending or a really descent restaurant and make more than miminum wage with tips. I just didn't digest this was a PART-TIME concept. Hell there are people in this world who work 2 40 hour jobs and have kids etc etc etc. Talk about sleep deprived people. angel

stef -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:02:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl According to our roommate, bartenders can be sued. If bartenders can be held responsible for serving too many drinks to someone, why can't employers? Nobody can be fired for refusing to get drunk, but employees can be fired for refusing to go to a meeting if they can't get a ride and are too tired to drive. While exhaustion and intoxication have similar effects on driving, alcohol is for recreatonal purposes and employment is necessary for survival. Not getting 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep one day a month will not cause exhaustion. For over a year I worked two full-time jobs and got, at MOST, 5 hours of sleep a night and caught up on sleep on the weekends. Many people do this and have done it for years. You have no idea what exhaustion is. Stop whining and grow up. ~stef

BonesFromAsh -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:08:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl While exhaustion and intoxication have similar effects on driving, alcohol is for recreatonal purposes and employment is necessary for survival. Yep....welcome to reality. If things are as bad at work as you say they are...cleaning up after co-workers and such...have you addressed it with your employer? This thread cracks me up. You, OP, have been given more reasons/advice/information than I would ever bother to offer. Why? Because, based on some of your past threads, you seem to find a strange pleasure in being the victim. To offer anything would be an exercise in futility. You have two choices.... 1. Go to the meeting and keep your job. 2. Don't go to the meeting and lose your job. What would a grown-up do?

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:13:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InControl754 quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl If you feel you are putting yourself in danger, have you considered taking a half or full day off the day after the meeting? I can't do that without losing my position because I'm scheduled to work both Friday and Saturday night. Not working the night before the meeting helps me out the most. Hopefully, the new employee will agree to trade me nights. I'm more concerned about other night workers than I am about myself.

barelynangel -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:20:17 PM)
What utterly amazes me is that OP, you keep bringing upi this liability of company and you choosing to drive. Are you secretly planning on getting in an accident (hopefully you won't kill anyone) and then deciding to sue the company for making you come to a mandatory meeting? Because your focus on this and now trying to attribute it to bars makes me wonder. You do realize that the drunks really get to sue the bar? If they try, they don't get very far as its a concept called comparable fault. When a drunk gets in an accident and hurts someone, there is usually comparable fault between the driver and the bar because the DRIVER IS STILL HELD RESPONSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The victims are the ones who usually have a case to sue, and the driver isn't free to go on his way with no responsibility applied. The reason people like to go after company's is due to they probably have a higher insurance policy and therefore, more money is available. IF you got into an accident and hurt no one but yourself, your case against the company wouldn't hold up because 1) the company doesn't mandate you DRIVE to the meeting, they just require you to be there, and the fact that you have in the past had people drive you because you are concerned about driving, would be a strike against you because it would show that you decided to drive recklessly instead of finding an alternative as you have before 2) IF for some silly reason you were able to have some merit, it would probably be dismissed on summary judgment because your responsibility as a DRIVER who chooses to get behind the wheel knowing you are impaired is a concept where fault would more than likely be equally distributed OR more so on your part because you didn't HAVE to drive to the meeting. Sorry to burst your little bubble here because it seriously seems like you are thinking this may be a money maker for you. angel

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:20:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama quote: It is very hard to sleep days in our neighborhood. Earplugs Room darkening shades sleep mask (or blindfold) melatonin Room darkening shade already done. Blndfold not necessary due to room darkening shade. Earplugs not an option when I have to hear my alarm. Haven't heard of melatonin.

agirl -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:37:23 PM)
FR.... OK, not getting enough sleep isn't fun. Mothers of new-borns often go without sleep for months on end with no-one to whinge to and no-one to sue and no laws to draw on. 28 hrs a week? Seriously? My 18yr old has just worked two 12 hr stints in two days, add walking time to and from. He still has at LEAST another 24 hrs to work this week, and if there's a meeting, he'll be up, and walking to and from it, regardless, as he's a Shift Manager and the meetings are important. He eats his supper and sometimes falls asleep where he's sat. My daughter-in-law is 7 months pregnant with a toddler and works fulltime as a Social Worker. If she's awake half the night with the toddler, she still has to get up, drop the little-one at the child-minder, go to work, pick up little-one , get back home, feed, clean, dishes, laundry....and so on. 28 hrs a week, come on. agirl

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:40:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef Not getting 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep one day a month will not cause exhaustion. For over a year I worked two full-time jobs and got, at MOST, 5 hours of sleep a night and caught up on sleep on the weekends. Many people do this and have done it for years. You have no idea what exhaustion is. Stop whining and grow up. ~stef Why does everyone keep making it sound so simple? Unless my new co-worker agrees to switch nights with me, I will get no sleep the night before the meeting, about 4 hours of sleep the day of the meeting, and no sleep the night of the meeting. That's 20 hours of work on four hours of sleep. People's bodies are different. I do know what exhaustion is since keepng my eyes open is a struggle.

MasterCord -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:43:39 PM)
Oh yes....I know THAT one all too well owning a business as I do. What is the quote? ....something like... "....in owning a business you get to work 100 hours a week for yourself instead of 40 hours a week for someone else...". MC quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse I guess you could always start your own company. Then you could set the rules. Oh god, you'd think that'd be the case but coming from personal experience, it's pretty much like lubing your ass real nice, getting ready to be raped by life lol Owning your own business means no paid vacation but mostly no pay, or vacation Especially if it's something you love doing, it's doomed to give you financial grief for the rest of your career Find something you hate and it'll probably be a moderately "successful" soul sucking career.

kalikshama -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:48:30 PM)
Shift work disturbs your circadian rhythms. Melatonin helps with that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin The sublingual works best for me. I get it at Whole Foods. Amazon carries it: http://www.amazon.com/Source-Naturals-Melatonin-Peppermint-Tablets/dp/B000GFPCN4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1293500761&sr=8-2 Earplugs won't block out your alarm clock but they might help with the "hard to sleep in your neighborhood" issue.

LadyPact -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:48:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Sir just went to work so since he can't answer you I (defiantbadgirl) will. Although this doesn't pertain to the subject of the thread, Sir is right about me having to clean up after co-workers at my location. I assure you catching everything up does not leave me time to sit around on one long break the entire night. Sleeping in a car for several hours when one is prone to a pinched sciatic nerve is a very bad idea. The level of pain from the muscle spasms caused by a pinched sciatic nerve is comparable to childbirth without an epidural. As someone who experienced both, I know for a fact I'm not exaggerating (yes that means you're wrong about me not having kids). Both Sir and our roommate do give me rides whenever they can. Most of the time, they can't take me both to and from work and to and from meetings because they're at work. Everyone who lives in our house works. According to our roommate, bartenders can be sued. If bartenders can be held responsible for serving too many drinks to someone, why can't employers? Nobody can be fired for refusing to get drunk, but employees can be fired for refusing to go to a meeting if they can't get a ride and are too tired to drive. While exhaustion and intoxication have similar effects on driving, alcohol is for recreatonal purposes and employment is necessary for survival. Do you complain like this and want to sue the kids when you have to lose sleep because they have a fever? Why not? They are contributing to your sleep deprived state of having to drive your car? No, you don't because taking care of sick kids is part of the 'job' of motherhood. In all seriousness, clip didn't complain this much being in a war zone.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Wait a minute let me understand this: she works 28 hours a week!! I completely missed that. you work PART-TIME??? You make a dollar above minimum wage in Kansas which is $7.25 an hour. So you make $231 per week. That's you make You have sat here whinging over this when you could probably go out and get a minimum wage full time job that would allow you 1) make 290 a week, 2) you probably won't have to work graveyard, 3) you wouldn't be sleep deprived, and finally 4) i doubt they would have monthly meetings that would effect your sleep. I mean seriously, i don't get it. If your job is this miserable as you and now this other person is indicating it is, and soo hard and you never get any sleep, i don't get why you don't quit. Hell even working 28 hours part time at minimum wage would only knock your paycheck by $28 bucks a month. You could probably get a job in a bar waitressing or bartending or a really descent restaurant and make more than miminum wage with tips. I just didn't digest this was a PART-TIME concept. Hell there are people in this world who work 2 40 hour jobs and have kids etc etc etc. Talk about sleep deprived people. angel I have scoliosis, which can cause my sciatic nerve to pinch (pain level of sciatic nerve pinch comparable to childbirth without epidural lasting 3 days). Most jobs require employees to stand all day and have scheduled breaks. I can't type 70 words per minute because I have carpal tunnel in my wrists. At my job, breaks aren't scheduled so I can sit down for a few minutes when my back starts giving me warning signs. No I don't intend to deliberately get in an accident so I can sue the company I work for. Why would I do that with the lmitations caused by my spine deformity?

barelynangel -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 5:55:03 PM)
Is there anything you don't have an excuse for?

agirl -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 6:00:00 PM)
but it's once a month....! I'm not saying I'd want to do it but if you were up all night with belly-ache you'd still have to get and feel buggered all through your shift, no? agirl

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 6:13:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Wow your employer is forcing employees to endanger themselves as well as other drivers on the road every week? May I ask how many times they have been held liable in court for causing traffic accidents? Driving while exhausted is by law considered reckless driving and if the employer is forcing it......I wonder why cases like this aren't more publicized blaming the employer as I have no doubt there are plenty of them. I do what most responsible adults do when the meeting is during my sleep schedule, I sleep in my car when its warm, I crash in the conference room when its cold. I have several blankets and pillows in my car at nearly all times, because some times after work i just dont feel like driving an hour home. Your making it be the end of the world, I instead of playing the poor me poor me card, take responsibility that i work the night shift and dont drive impaired... I work for a telephone company, with medical facilities, several group homes, and several retirement homes. If we arent doing our job, people who need medical help, or who need to transport things like organs, trauma victims. We dont do our job and BAD things can happen... the grave shift worker who pulled 14 hours today because of lack of coverage, and has another 12 to go to in an hour

Termyn8or -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 6:19:22 PM)
FR I think LP is making sense. Suck it up. If you don't like the idea of melatonin or whatever, or sleeping pills, eat a big meal right after work so you sleep better at that time. None of the alternatives are viable. If you can't adjust, look for another job. Do it while you're still working, being currently employed is an asset to a potential candidate. You have the other days of the week to do so. And that can work that both ways as well. Once a perspective employer calls, if they take note they might be willing to bend a bit. Maybe not, but there are two possibilities there and it depends on just how many people work those hours. I don't know the geographics of the situation, but if there really is an extreme hardship others must experience it as well. So get a friend to call for references on a bunch of them as well. It works when they think they might have to hire a bunch of people. I got a huge raise once doing that, in fact I didn't even need to use the fake calls. But it was an option. I don't think it's ilegal just to make a phone call to ask if someone works there, how long they been there and all that. You just have to fudge your identity a bit. This is XYZ corporation bla bla bla. A bit underhanded, but not as bad as sikking the government on them - or trying to. And alot less likely to cost you your ass. Remember to use *67 when calling. (unless it is a government agency, then you need different phones from which to call). But being part time I wouldn't even count on that working. You have other days in the week to look for a more suitable job, or to learn new skills which will enhance your employability. When I ws greedy I worked one full time job and two part time jobs, although one of the part time jobs was at home. Working at home was a luxury, when I could afford it. What happened to that was a house fire in 1995 and I haven't run a home based enterprise since because of the liability. But it may be a luxury that I have to afford in the future. It has it's advantages. Back then I got by on very little sleep. You have good options that you do not see. All this OSHA, NLRB, state law crap is going nowhere. If you become a problem to the company, you will be "solved". Believe me, I have been in business. There are very few exceptions, and I don't count on being one so neither should you. T

January -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 6:57:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ quote: ORIGINAL: January ...I don't think your telling us about defiant's household duties is really relevant here. She works part time. ... Defiant does not have kids. She does not go to college. Her job is not exhausting, it's pretty well the same as sitting around on one long break. January The household duties described were not the ones she does at home but rather the ones she does on the job. Having worked that shift as fill for 3 different agencies, I can pretty much tell you that my experience was that it was not sitting around on one long break. YMMV. Ok. I misread whose household is involved in the household duties. Her roomie/Sir wasn't all that clear. I'm still unimpressed. Her claim is that she had to "do other people's work" at her job. My understanding is that her clients ARE ASLEEP in the middle of the night when she works. In contrast to the day shift, she does NOT deal directly with her clients, unless there is a big time emergency. The day shift drives clients to doctor's visits (hence a good driving record is required, which she doesn't have) and bathes them and feeds them and cooks, or whatever. The day shift may not have time to do laundry and dishes, as they are occupied with the client. My feeling? defiant is not, in actuality, doing other people's work. She's doing her job. So why do I think she's sitting around? Mainly because of her prior postings about her terrible back, and how she can barely do her job because of it, unless she gets drugs. Have you seen her posts asking the CM folk, where can she get a prescription for muscle relaxant drugs for cheap? And this is what she says in this thread: quote: Breaks and lunches aren't scheduled at my current job because there's no need since we can eat or take a break when we need to. We just can't sleep on the clock. I don't see her as overworked. She's not able to be overworked! It would outright KILL her! January

KatyLied -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 7:00:16 PM)
deleted......not worth it

angelikaJ -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 7:13:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl quote: ORIGINAL: stef Not getting 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep one day a month will not cause exhaustion. For over a year I worked two full-time jobs and got, at MOST, 5 hours of sleep a night and caught up on sleep on the weekends. Many people do this and have done it for years. You have no idea what exhaustion is. Stop whining and grow up. ~stef Why does everyone keep making it sound so simple? Unless my new co-worker agrees to switch nights with me, I will get no sleep the night before the meeting, about 4 hours of sleep the day of the meeting, and no sleep the night of the meeting. That's 20 hours of work on four hours of sleep. People's bodies are different. I do know what exhaustion is since keepng my eyes open is a struggle. If you are going into work on Thursday with no sleep that falls on you and NOT the employer. No, you won't get to sleep the night before the meeting. You can however, plan ahead and try to get extra sleep on Wednesday and get decent sleep on Thursday before you go in... so that when you go in for your Thursday shift you are well rested. There is no reason for you to be going in on Thursday on no sleep. Friday morning you can try to take a nap before your meeting. Then go home after your meeting and sleep from 3-8. The meeting is at 1p you get out at 2. Then the working on 4 hours of sleep (which if you are careful might be stretched into 5-6 (counting the nap earlier)) only really applies to the second day. It does suck. I know it does. But the 20 hrs on no sleep is either a miscalculation, an exaggeration or an issue with your personal schedule. You should be well rested going into the Thursday shift...in which case the "no sleep" should not come into play until after the shift on Friday.

littlewonder -> RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? (12/27/2010 7:19:29 PM)
sounds to me like you don't know how to manage your time so that you get enough sleep. Not your employer's fault. That's on you. Maybe get your Master to enforce a sleep schedule for you if you can't do it yourself so that you can do your job without falling asleep. Once a month though? LOL...funny. Hell, I wish once a month was the only time I didn't sleep well and still had to do my job and stay awake there.

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