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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 7:16:54 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I do think casual disregard for the law is pretty common in our country. What I pick up from many of our posters from across the pond, and to our north, is more acceptance of the individual's role in society as that of a subject, rather than a free agent. Maybe the gap is in the American notion that our rights are inherent, and laws that intrude on them are for ignoring, vs. the Old World acceptance of their rights being something granted by king/government?



That's kinda what I was trying to state.  Thanks for rephrasing it so well.

Here we seem to have the cult of the individual.  It has its pluses and its minuses.  There is a strong lawless element, but OTOH, we have a bent for pioneering new things.  As an example, the Japanese are famous for taking an existing process and patiently improving it bit by bit, squeezing an extra half percent of efficiency here, a quarter percent there.  But we Americans developed most of those processes, inefficiencies and all.



I think in the case of the japanese a lot of it comes down to their tendency to try to perfect things and processes. We tend to do what is necessary to get the job done and no more.

Europeans have centuries of having royalty rule over them, so it is a part of our culture. Where we are outlaws at heart. It took guns to tame the west. And guns to keep it that way.



But the Japanese are the example in efficiency,  the UK is no where near those standards.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 7:27:17 PM   
pahunkboy


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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 8:40:35 PM   
agirl


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Status: offline 		It'd be extremely difficult to explain the intracasies of UK culture to someone who hasn't lived it, or at least visited for a short while, beyond a holiday.....JUST as it would be in reverse.

I wouldn't claim to understand what it's like to be a US citizen , when each state seems to be a different country, with different laws etc. Here we live cheek to jowl with each other on a relatively small island....there's not a great deal of comparison to the US as a whole.

I don't live in a culture of private gun-ownership (for protection) and I don't want to because it's not part of anything remotely familiar. People here DO have illegally owned guns, and use them...... they have knives too, also illegal...We're not bereft of criminals of all kinds......but a burglar, rapist, general thug here, is FAR less likely to be carrying a fire-arm for the simple reason that they are far less likely to encounter one in the average household/situation. It's not a mindset that we carry as a culture.

Overall, we take other measures to protect ourselves that don't include fire-arms because we don't consider it as an option because of our culture. We weren't raised to even imagine that.

Here, the majority of people aren't afraid of getting shot, by anyone......even in the midst of a criminal act, we're far more likely to be afraid of being punched, bludgeoned with something , or stabbed, if we're assaulted in some manner.

I wouldn't like to make any comparisons in terms of being more law-abiding........ people of different cultures break the law in ways that fit with the culture they're in.

All the *you US people* insults......and * you UK people* insults are really a bit daft. The majority of us only know the things we either read, hear or watch on TV ......and even if someone visited here, on this TEENY island, they'd experience huge differences from N. Ireland to Cornwall. In the US , the differences would be simply vast.

We think differently because we live differently. I don't see a lot of point in comparing.

agirl







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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 9:00:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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I've explained this to you before, RML. I just collect the tails.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 9:24:13 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

They really do not have wild forests in the UK- because they cut down all the trees.  Hence we need firearms- where as they simply do not.   Not for the frontier- as there is none.... 

That explains things. Americans need more guns because the Brits cut all their trees down. THAT was the missing piece of the puzzle.


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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 10:13:16 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


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quote:

The impression I get is that overall, the British tend to follow laws and assume others do as well. We Americans are more prone to think of those that break the rules.


Greetings Sir,

As a Brit living in the States with lots of family in the UK still- Brits are definitely not more law-abiding. (They may have different attitudes regarding guns however- don't know). But in general, there people will dig up your rose bushes to steal them. People can't put out cute decorations on their front door or in their garden because they will be stolen by the next day. Here- at least in most places- that generally is not the case so far. It happens but not often. There, family has said that it happens all the time.
(Germany on the other hand seemed quite law abiding overall- but that was 20 years ago, so it may have changed).

Well wishes,
anna

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/1/2011 11:48:50 PM   
Dragonspinkkitty


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Status: offline 		All one has to do it research the crime statics to find out that Britain has a higher crime percentage than the US does.

Taking away guns does not stop crime. In fact it lets it increase by preventing law abiding citizens from protecting themselves and each other against violent criminals. Harsh gun laws do not stop criminals as criminals do not abide by the laws. Only law abiding citizens abide by the laws.

Gun free zones create a perfect opportunity for criminals to do their job. One criminal with a gun can hold 50 people hostage, but 50 people with guns can take out that criminal.

When seconds matter, which would you rather have, a loaded a gun or a cell phone. Sure you can call the cops to come and "save you" and when they get there they can call the coroner to pick up your dead body. Me I'll take the loaded gun so when I call the cops they can call the meat wagon to pick up the dead body of the criminal.

I am proud to say that I carry. Not only is it for my protection, but also the protection of my husband my daughter and you the citizen who expects the cops to save your life. Did you know that cops are not obligated to put their life on the line to save yours.

"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."

"When there aren't any warm, strong shoulders of a man to lean on for protection, nothing feels better than the cold, steel barrel of a gun"

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 3:59:32 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragonspinkkitty

All one has to do it research the crime statics to find out that Britain has a higher crime percentage than the US does.

Taking away guns does not stop crime. In fact it lets it increase by preventing law abiding citizens from protecting themselves and each other against violent criminals.



So why are more people murdered in the US than in the UK, or am I missing something here ?

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 4:21:05 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
So why are more people murdered in the US than in the UK, or am I missing something here ?


I'm beginning to wonder if killing people, whether illegally or legally, means something different that side of the pond, PS.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:29:42 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis

quote:

The impression I get is that overall, the British tend to follow laws and assume others do as well. We Americans are more prone to think of those that break the rules.


Greetings Sir,

As a Brit living in the States with lots of family in the UK still- Brits are definitely not more law-abiding. (They may have different attitudes regarding guns however- don't know). But in general, there people will dig up your rose bushes to steal them. People can't put out cute decorations on their front door or in their garden because they will be stolen by the next day. Here- at least in most places- that generally is not the case so far. It happens but not often. There, family has said that it happens all the time.
(Germany on the other hand seemed quite law abiding overall- but that was 20 years ago, so it may have changed).

Well wishes,
anna


I never had a rose bush stolen yet.  I grew 5 of them here.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 5:56:21 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

I think in the case of the japanese a lot of it comes down to their tendency to try to perfect things and processes. We tend to do what is necessary to get the job done and no more.



Yeah, those Japanese are perfectionists.

Toyota Motor Leads Automakers in 2010 Recalls

Dec 30, 2010 (SmarTrend News Watch via COMTEX) -- Toyota Motor Corp. (NYSE:TM) recalled 7.1 million vehicles in 2010, claiming the top spot for auto recalls during the year, according to new data.

Toyota's recalls this year stemmed from issues including problematic gas pedals, braking systems, floor mats, stalling engines, and more.


Honda Recalls 18500 Snowblowers On Potential For Fuel Leak

Honda to Recall About 1.35 Mln. Honda Fit Vehicles

Honda Recalls 2010-2011 Accords, 2011 Pilot - U.S. News

Honda Motorcycle Recall

(in reply to blacksword404)
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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 6:14:21 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Part of it was bombed on 7-7


What bloody planet are you on?


Prison Planet.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 6:19:53 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

I think in the case of the japanese a lot of it comes down to their tendency to try to perfect things and processes. We tend to do what is necessary to get the job done and no more.



Yeah, those Japanese are perfectionists.

Toyota Motor Leads Automakers in 2010 Recalls

Dec 30, 2010 (SmarTrend News Watch via COMTEX) -- Toyota Motor Corp. (NYSE:TM) recalled 7.1 million vehicles in 2010, claiming the top spot for auto recalls during the year, according to new data.

Toyota's recalls this year stemmed from issues including problematic gas pedals, braking systems, floor mats, stalling engines, and more.


Honda Recalls 18500 Snowblowers On Potential For Fuel Leak

Honda to Recall About 1.35 Mln. Honda Fit Vehicles

Honda Recalls 2010-2011 Accords, 2011 Pilot - U.S. News

Honda Motorcycle Recall



....would you like to know why this happened?  huh?
The US has a military base there- and Japan did not want to renew the lease.   Some how a central bank also factors in.   But the key for this recall is the military base.   After the recalls- guess what?   The lease is now renewed.  Amazing how that works, huh?

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 6:28:01 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Yeah, those Japanese are perfectionists.

Toyota Motor Leads Automakers in 2010 Recalls

Dec 30, 2010 (SmarTrend News Watch via COMTEX) -- Toyota Motor Corp. (NYSE:TM) recalled 7.1 million vehicles in 2010, claiming the top spot for auto recalls during the year, according to new data.

Toyota's recalls this year stemmed from issues including problematic gas pedals, braking systems, floor mats, stalling engines, and more.


Honda Recalls 18500 Snowblowers On Potential For Fuel Leak

Honda to Recall About 1.35 Mln. Honda Fit Vehicles

Honda Recalls 2010-2011 Accords, 2011 Pilot - U.S. News

Honda Motorcycle Recall



....would you like to know why this happened?  huh?
The US has a military base there- and Japan did not want to renew the lease.   Some how a central bank also factors in.   But the key for this recall is the military base.   After the recalls- guess what?   The lease is now renewed.  Amazing how that works, huh?



It's amazing how your mind works, because I have no idea what your incoherent, rambling response is supposed to mean.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 8:03:05 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
They really do not have wild forests in the UK- because they cut down all the trees.  Hence we need firearms- where as they simply do not.   Not for the frontier- as there is none.... 

That explains things. Americans need more guns because the Brits cut all their trees down. THAT was the missing piece of the puzzle.

Yeah we can go back to discussing all those other worldly problems now.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 8:03:34 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Just a thought if there was not a second amendment that protected the citizen's right to own a firearm, would American citizens be so keen to own a firearm ? Or given the time span since 1791, if guns were not in the American psyche, they would in fact be the same as Europe and other parts of the world in their attitude towards firearms.

But the other thought is Arms sales, not just tanks, planes and other devices of war to American armed forces and  foreign nations, but the home market as well. The arms manufacturers and dealers and doing very well with the American weapons mentality.

I am not anti gun, I used to do shooting before hand guns as a sport got restricted and I could no longer be bothered with the increased red tape, but guns in private ownership we do not need, we are an overcrowded country with enough problems without letting idiots loose with guns, although there are a lot in illegal ownership, having one is more of a threat, but firing one is a whole different kettle of fish, because the plod are very keen in their duties when they become aware of guns.

A chap with a gun recently was shot by the fuzz




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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 8:22:14 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnnaOfAramis
(Germany on the other hand seemed quite law abiding overall- but that was 20 years ago, so it may have changed).

Well wishes,
anna


lets say it is different in Germany yes, but like everywhere shootings happen even there.

In regards to potentially more law abiding I think one major difference (thats just my personal opinion) is that you can get into serious trouble in Germany for small aspects which aren't a problem here. Back home I always have to remind myself not to cross the traffic light at red as you do get a big fine if you dare to do so and are unlucky enough to be caught out in secret controls (don't know the current fee but when I worked at the police as admin staff 12 years ago I wrote the fines to the folks which have been caught out by officers when they did their secret controls...at that time it was by 125 German Marks, which is approx. 50 pound/75 dollar and I think you can even get a point in your driving licence if you do so despite not being in your car). Sometimes I do have the impression that the fact that you already feel such consequences at basic aspects gives you a fair warning better not to dare to go even further against the law.

On the other hand the law in the UK appears to be harsher than in Germany.

My view about guns is neutral at present and I do remember that we weren't glad when Grandpa got himself one...as we were concerned in his case that at some point he might accidentially use it against granny when he is drunk again (he died on alcoholism). Thankfully it was never used and returned to whatever place it has to be returned when my parents emptied his house to renovate it after his death.

Also in Germany police officers have to leave their guns at work in a safe when they finish the shift which "might" be different in the US.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 8:54:49 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

They really do not have wild forests in the UK- because they cut down all the trees.  Hence we need firearms- where as they simply do not.   Not for the frontier- as there is none.... 

You missed the coverage of Chorlton-faced bad hat Roaul Moat hiding from the rozzers in a forest a few months back, then? Didn't look like the whole of that one had been felled, but maybe they'd CGI'd the trees in after the footage was taken and he was really hiding in a car park.

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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 9:48:41 AM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Also the tories who are in government plan to sell off the English forests  which are reckoned to be worth £761 million
and that is only 30 % of the forested land in England that are under governmental or local authority control. The other 70% of the forested land is in private ownership and with any luck, I will have a bit in the future.



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RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? - 1/2/2011 9:58:38 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

It'd be extremely difficult to explain the intracasies of UK culture to someone who hasn't lived it, or at least visited for a short while, beyond a holiday.....JUST as it would be in reverse. I wouldn't claim to understand what it's like to be a US citizen , when each state seems to be a different country, with different laws etc. Here we live cheek to jowl with each other on a relatively small island....there's not a great deal of comparison to the US as a whole. I don't live in a culture of private gun-ownership (for protection) and I don't want to because it's not part of anything remotely familiar. People here DO have illegally owned guns, and use them...... they have knives too, also illegal...We're not bereft of criminals of all kinds......but a burglar, rapist, general thug here, is FAR less likely to be carrying a fire-arm for the simple reason that they are far less likely to encounter one in the average household/situation. It's not a mindset that we carry as a culture. Overall, we take other measures to protect ourselves that don't include fire-arms because we don't consider it as an option because of our culture. We weren't raised to even imagine that. Here, the majority of people aren't afraid of getting shot, by anyone......even in the midst of a criminal act, we're far more likely to be afraid of being punched, bludgeoned with something , or stabbed, if we're assaulted in some manner. I wouldn't like to make any comparisons in terms of being more law-abiding........ people of different cultures break the law in ways that fit with the culture they're in. All the *you US people* insults......and * you UK people* insults are really a bit daft. The majority of us only know the things we either read, hear or watch on TV ......and even if someone visited here, on this TEENY island, they'd experience huge differences from N. Ireland to Cornwall. In the US , the differences would be simply vast. We think differently because we live differently. I don't see a lot of point in comparing. agirl


Well said, on all points.  I wish they could be collectively taken as a starting-position on any debate like this.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/2/2011 10:01:23 AM >

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