Faith and custom? (Full Version)

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disretion7 -> Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 3:12:36 AM)

Dear Mistresses,
 
It seems to be well established, by majority opinion, here, that anyone who pays a good faith financial tribute, to a pro-domme, deserves to lose it if she chooses not to respond. That is, certainly, my opinion too!
 
It DOES beg another question that I am less clear about majority opinion on.  Does a pro-domme who requests good faith financial tributes here, in advance, have no obligation to respond?
 
Sincerely,
 
disretion7 (Phil)




MstrssPassion -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 5:47:36 AM)

Forget the lifestyle implications...

If a person (non-gender specific) is online & their motivation is to collect small sums of money... they will find a way to do so.

It could be a pro session tribute like you experienced with no intent to meet or follow up with communication or it could be someone claiming to be collecting funds for a disaster relief such as all the scammers after Hurricane Katrina.

A scam is a scam is a scam.

You lost your money to someone who has no intension to have any further communication with you. No sense in analyzing this any further.




thetammyjo -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 9:55:31 AM)

I think that a wise business person delievers what she promises. If she doesn't, it may get out and she may find her business going downhill at some point in the future.

I think this is true for prodoms, painters, waiters, etc.




LadyMorgynn -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 11:00:45 AM)

Payment for services or merchandise.  This is a contract, whether verbal or written.  It's not just limited to BDSM, and it goes both ways.  ANYONE who accepts a good-faith payment in advance, has an obligation to fulfill her part of the bargain.  ANYONE who accepts services or merchandise in advance with a promise of of payment, has an obligation to make the payment. 

The problem arises if *either* party is dishonest.

In this lifestyle, it is not also limited to pro Domme's.  What about a Dominant who has sent money or paid a plane fare for a submissive to travel to him, and the submissive takes the money and runs?  What of the submissive who pays his own fair to see the Domme, and the Domme doesn't show up at the airport? 

There are many ways to defraud people.  NONE of them are kind, NONE of them are ethical, and ALL of them are indefensible, short of restitution.




disretion7 -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 11:42:52 AM)

Dear MstrssPassion,
 
Yes, SCAMS ARE unstoppable, though I appreciate your view of the incident as a SCAM.  I reported the incident to Collarme Support just in case it IS a SCAM which is continuing here.
 
Per your advice, I'll drop further public mention of the incident after this thread is played out.
 
Respectfully,
 
disretion7 (Phil)
---------------------------------

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

Forget the lifestyle implications...

If a person (non-gender specific) is online & their motivation is to collect small sums of money... they will find a way to do so.

It could be a pro session tribute like you experienced with no intent to meet or follow up with communication or it could be someone claiming to be collecting funds for a disaster relief such as all the scammers after Hurricane Katrina.

A scam is a scam is a scam.

You lost your money to someone who has no intension to have any further communication with you. No sense in analyzing this any further.




disretion7 -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 11:51:05 AM)

Dear TammyJo,
 
That is my primary point of view too.  If I am the ONLY victim of the SCAM, then she should continue her request for "good faith" tributes, unabated, and my lesson remain singular.
 
If it is a CONTINUING practice, then it should stop, whether by her hand, or someone elses?
 
Thanks for your kind support!
 
Respectfully,
 
disretion7 (Phil)
----------------------

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I think that a wise business person delievers what she promises. If she doesn't, it may get out and she may find her business going downhill at some point in the future.

I think this is true for prodoms, painters, waiters, etc.




disretion7 -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 11:57:17 AM)

Dear Lady Morgynn,
 
Wonderfully put, thank you!
 
Your remarks encourage me to believe that almost everyone considers the practice dishonest and that "good faith" is still widely prized, even where it is not always practiced or reciprocated.
 
Respectfully,
 
disretion7 (Phil)
-----------------------------

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Payment for services or merchandise.  This is a contract, whether verbal or written.  It's not just limited to BDSM, and it goes both ways.  ANYONE who accepts a good-faith payment in advance, has an obligation to fulfill her part of the bargain.  ANYONE who accepts services or merchandise in advance with a promise of of payment, has an obligation to make the payment. 

The problem arises if *either* party is dishonest.

In this lifestyle, it is not also limited to pro Domme's.  What about a Dominant who has sent money or paid a plane fare for a submissive to travel to him, and the submissive takes the money and runs?  What of the submissive who pays his own fair to see the Domme, and the Domme doesn't show up at the airport? 

There are many ways to defraud people.  NONE of them are kind, NONE of them are ethical, and ALL of them are indefensible, short of restitution.





stef -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 12:57:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: disretion7

It DOES beg another question that I am less clear about majority opinion on.  Does a pro-domme who requests good faith financial tributes here, in advance, have no obligation to respond?

You can't force an obligation upon a stranger, and attempting to do so is a fool's gambit.  It's almost as foolish as sending money to a complete stranger and expecting anything other than never seeing that money again. 

It truly does suck that there are people here with no goal other than to fleece the trusting/desperate/unworldly of their hard earned money.  As much as that does suck, people ultimately have to understand that when engaging in this kind of arrangement, they stand a good chance of getting taken and they can't expect anyone other than themselves to protect their interests.  Scammers have become so common in the online world that TPTB have put this disclaimer at the top of the page when you read email:

"Any messages involving Africa, Ghana, Nigeria, Singapore, wiring money, online escrow services, or cashiers checks are scams and should be ignored.  Be wary of requests for your personal email address or money from people you just met."

I don't think you're going to find many people here who don't view the practice as anything other than dishonest, but I'm not really sure what you're hoping to achieve with this thread aside from commiseration.

~stef




disretion7 -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/1/2006 8:54:36 PM)

Dear Stef,
 
Thanks for the kindness of your thoughtful and sage reply!
 
Aside from commiseration, I was seeking to learn if MOST folks really thought the practice IS dishonest, as obvious as the answer seems to you and I. Since nobody said much about that issue in initial reactions to my first thread, on the topic, I could not help wondering if a sizable percentage of members thought that, since a fool deserves what he gets, the deceiver justly earned and deserves the fruits of her deception?
 
As I am comforted to learn that almost nobody believes the latter, that is what my thread achieved aside from the commiseration.  For that, I am more grateful than I can say!  As to the money, I lose that with a glad heart! That (and much else I've lost) is nothing compared with the sorrow I brought back from Vietnam.
 
As a public service to others who might blind themselves sufficiently to follow MY bad example, I'll share my theory as to what I think transpired and the ultimate outcome. To wit, I disagree with those who theorize that I was had by a by a hairy old gent posing as a beautiful young pro-domme, because I can't see how he would sustain the con with no stock in trade?  An avalanche of complaints would drive him off of this stie in short order.
 
More likely, it seems, this beauty is the pro-domme she claims to be and, very likely, honors MOST of the good faith tributes on the basis that most of her clients are acceptable to play with?  I may have been the only (or one of few exceptions) one who is not acceptable, but whose money was?  On that basis, Collarme is unlikely ever to find against her.  I've lived long enough to know that MOST organizations prize stability and serenity above all (including justice) and that complainers are just bad news whose necks get chopped off.  I am reconciled to that dynamic, certainly, together with kissing the money off, and expecting no further commiseration or support.  No one got really hurt and the lady, in question, probably does great work for others which redeems her treatment of me.
 
The only real casualty in this incident, is "good faith" and I am convinced that will quickly rebound with so many wonderful members of your caliber here!
 
Cheers!
 
disretion7 (Phil)

-------------------------------------------------------
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: disretion7

It DOES beg another question that I am less clear about majority opinion on.  Does a pro-domme who requests good faith financial tributes here, in advance, have no obligation to respond?

You can't force an obligation upon a stranger, and attempting to do so is a fool's gambit.  It's almost as foolish as sending money to a complete stranger and expecting anything other than never seeing that money again. 

It truly does suck that there are people here with no goal other than to fleece the trusting/desperate/unworldly of their hard earned money.  As much as that does suck, people ultimately have to understand that when engaging in this kind of arrangement, they stand a good chance of getting taken and they can't expect anyone other than themselves to protect their interests.  Scammers have become so common in the online world that TPTB have put this disclaimer at the top of the page when you read email:

"Any messages involving Africa, Ghana, Nigeria, Singapore, wiring money, online escrow services, or cashiers checks are scams and should be ignored.  Be wary of requests for your personal email address or money from people you just met."

I don't think you're going to find many people here who don't view the practice as anything other than dishonest, but I'm not really sure what you're hoping to achieve with this thread aside from commiseration.

~stef




MoonGoddessIsis -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/3/2006 9:33:47 AM)

Phil,

Some people will just take advantage of others no matter what shape or form they come in.  Think of it as a lesson learned.  Don't let it leave you jaded, let it leave you smarter.

Good luck next time!

Lady Moon[:)]




disretion7 -> RE: Faith and custom? (5/3/2006 11:55:54 AM)

Dear Lady Moon,
 
Thanks for you kindness.
 
I'll try not to let anything conquer me but my soul.
 
Faithfully,
 
Phil
------------------------

quote:

ORIGINAL: MoonGoddessIsis

Phil,

Some people will just take advantage of others no matter what shape or form they come in.  Think of it as a lesson learned.  Don't let it leave you jaded, let it leave you smarter.

Good luck next time!

Lady Moon[:)]





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