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Can a sub be too polite? - 1/9/2011 3:34:24 PM

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If a sub is trying to make a positive impression and has read a lot of the advice, do you think it's possible to overthink things and become too polite? What if in an intro email, or first conversation or first interaction in real life, he's constantly saying "thank you," and "I am so grateful for.." and "Ma'am you are so gracious," and "I cannot thank you enough," etc?

What if at the beginning and the end, he says "Thank you for taking time to read this," (so he does it twice?)

What if he adds a slight hint of deference, to show his submissiveness, while being polite: "Thank you for your attention toward me, I feel unworthy."

What if he says "Ma'am" or "Miss," or whatever title you prefer - but uses it peppered at the end of every sentence?

Is there such a thing as too much, when a man is honestly just trying to do the best he can?

Akasha

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/9/2011 6:51:32 PM

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Given the disproportionate amount of mail dominant women get I think thanking someone for taking the time to read a message is fairly legitimate.

I think saying you're unworthy is kind of silly if you want a response. If someone is unworthy why should someone bother? I guess I feel I should be providing something worthwhile to my partner or not bother with involving myself with them at all. If it's true there's no point, if it's false it's just the wafflings of low self-esteem.

As for using honorifics to excess... After being on the BDSM dating scene for bit I avoid them in initial contact until the person I'm talking to indicates they'd like that.

Just my two cents from the sub side...

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 12:07:06 AM

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Well no, in my opinion, a sub cannot be too polite; no one can. Being polite is not only following protocol, but also knowing that if there's no protocol precedent in your mind for certain situation, the golden rules are...
- Strive to make others feel comfortable.
- Do unto others as you'd like them to do unto you.
- Build and keep a nice atmosphere.

Maybe he thinks that's the way he'd like to be treated, if he were a Dominant.
Maybe he wants to show that he's commited enough.
Maybe he just likes to be too polite (as you said it) and thinks you will like it too.

Yet no, abusing of protocol is not considered more polite; actually on the contrary, it is considered less polite, but (if I may add) he probably had a good intention, and hey, he bothered to try!

Unrelated: Oh AAkasha, what a beautiful picture you have! *_*

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 12:10:42 AM

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~FR~

I think it falls into "too polite" when the communication becomes ALL ABOUT the honorifics/apologies/etc... i.e. when there is more of the polite/honorific words than there are anything of substance.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 12:49:51 AM

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Being polite and respectful is always a good thing.

But I think there can be too much of it. I mean if it's really, REALLY excessive, there's a danger it can make you seem pathetic, desperate and needy. Those are not usually traits associated with being attractive to others. In my humble opinion.

But there's probably some people who could never get enough of that kind of thing, so I probably don't what what I'm talking about. (don't know why I bother)

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 2:17:05 AM

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(fast reply)

I think there is a difference between being polite and being ... sniveling, insincere, manipulative, and presumptive.

Being polite is easy. Most of us do it every day in our interactions with our boss, co-workers, people at our favorite coffee shop. Saying please and thank you isn't really rocket science.

However, when someone starts adding excess "Ma'am"s and is asking my permission to email me (during an email), and thanking me for being so wonderful as to grace his email with my time ... etc etc etc - I find this the hight of rudeness. To me the person is not sincere in his 'thank-yous' but rather simply saying what he thinks I want to hear in order to get to the next level. As well, he presumes that I like that kind of behaviour - I don't!

In my opinion, being "overly polite" is not being polite at all.

Wickad

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 3:16:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze

Being polite and respectful is always a good thing.

But I think there can be too much of it. I mean if it's really, REALLY excessive, there's a danger it can make you seem pathetic, desperate and needy. Those are not usually traits associated with being attractive to others. In my humble opinion.

But there's probably some people who could never get enough of that kind of thing, so I probably don't what what I'm talking about. (don't know why I bother)

This
Addressing me as 'Ma'am/Mistress in every other word is hugely irritating.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 5:51:39 AM

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quote:

If a sub is trying to make a positive impression and has read a lot of the advice, do you think it's possible to overthink things and become too polite?

Yes. When it becomes fake.

quote:

What if in an intro email, or first conversation or first interaction in real life, he's constantly saying "thank you," and "I am so grateful for.." and "Ma'am you are so gracious," and "I cannot thank you enough," etc?

That sounds pretty sniveling and dreary.

quote:

What if at the beginning and the end, he says "Thank you for taking time to read this," (so he does it twice?)

Once is enough. However, it could be an honest mistake depending on the length of the letter. Many people repeat themselves. Once is enough.

quote:

What if he adds a slight hint of deference, to show his submissiveness, while being polite: "Thank you for your attention toward me, I feel unworthy."

That's not deference; that's groveling. Many of the women here talk about not wanting to be with someone who acts like a worm. What you are talking about is wank fodder.

quote:

What if he says "Ma'am" or "Miss," or whatever title you prefer - but uses it peppered at the end of every sentence?

That's phony or groveling again.

quote:

Is there such a thing as too much, when a man is honestly just trying to do the best he can?
Akasha

Where do you find these dudes? Do you really want a man who takes on affectations or who is that whiny grovelly? If you do, that's cool, but let's call a spade a spade, eh? You're not talking about polite. You're talking about doormats.

best,
sunshine

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 6:03:07 AM

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Where do we find this sort of man? everywhere within the scene environment. There is no avoiding them, they are in every crease, cobweb and hiding place that the scene provides and you won't know you have bumped into one until the groveling/over politeness starts to pour fourth from his mouth.

I think in fairness to some of these guys, there is confusion. What one Domme may of absolutely demanded, another Domme may well be repulsed by the same thing. Some men want to grovel, some Dommes want that man to grovel.
The problem with groveling is, you don't see behind it. All you see is a man who is second guessing how he believes you want to see him. If I'm interested enough to continue a conversation with him then I will tell him to cut out the crap. If he doesn't get it then our conversation is terminated.... simple.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 6:28:32 AM

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I have seen this happen in a club to a very prominent national speaker with a guy who put himself on his knees and began grovelling, begging to come forward and greet her. It clearly made her uncomfortable and everyone around was clearly quite squicked at the behavior.

Now that said...here at CM such forms of communication clearly indicate to me that the person has at least a willingness to conform to some concept of behavioral standards - even if they have misinterpreted them.

To my mind, the next step with such a person is to determine if they are in that space because of misinterpretation, or because they put themselves there intentionally and again, it is not about honoring the Domme, but all about them feeling humiliated and taking it into their own hands and pushing their kink on to others.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 7:16:50 AM

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Like sunny, I do see the difference between being polite and groveling. The 'not worthy' stuff is something that is usually an indicator that a person is attempting to inflict some kind of superiority/inferiority kink om the person he's communicating to without their consent. That's not deference.

I don't have an issue with anyone interacting with Me who tags Ma'am on the end of their complete thought. I have people who do that when they talk to Me now when I see them in person. It's the way that they were taught that protocol should be and who am I to tell them that it isn't correct? That's a decision made by the person who owns them. Yes, they do refrain if someone has specifically asked them not to address them that way. Otherwise, they do as their Master says, which is how it should be.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 5:56:53 PM

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It is the overly apologetic, self deprecating man that annoys and turn Us off more than overly polite.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 1/10/2011 5:57:25 PM >

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 7:00:40 PM

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Easy enough when it gets to you- to say : "enough of that. relax, is this how you would talk to Me in person?" c'mon.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/10/2011 10:44:25 PM

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I don't believe a sub can be too polite, unless he is yessing me to death, regarldless of how much I coach him to give me hones answers, perhaps even disregard submission for this amout of time. I've seen people who actually follow completely, and need continuous leadership.
While I like an obedient, servile type, I am also interested in what makes him tick, so it will come out even if as an order. M

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/11/2011 10:23:52 PM

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yes there is a difference between polite and groveling. if after they are told once not to do that or similar and it continues then it would end the conversation. now there are lots of profiles i have read that say thats how the Domme wants the subs to behave so i can believe there is confusion on what is desired. i am the kind that will actually read the entire profile and anything related to the person before actually contacting them. when meeting i follow what ever lead is given if they rise i will as well etc. i don't just fall to my knees at their feet begging to be beaten.

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RE: Can a sub be too polite? - 1/11/2011 10:28:42 PM

Toppingfrmbottom

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Yes I feel it is possible to try to hard an someone doing that would annoy me.

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