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slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 6:22:52 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		i have been in the lifestyle for some time now and have come across far too  much conflict between the slave and submissive sides of the lifestyle.
 
It is either that the submissive is saying "Oh, well the slave is just a robot" or the slave saying "you are not a true submissive until you are a slave" and i have to wonder...where is this conflict coming from?
 
Why do we feel the need to attack other's form of lifestyle?  i personally have lots of slave friends... Gorean and otherwise, and i admire their choice...but it's just not for me.
 
So, this is my question, i believe.
 
Where does the conflict come from?  Why do we feel the need to add D/s, M/s hiererarchy? 

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 6:44:08 PM   
VvShadowspawnvV


Posts: 218
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		i don't have any issues with submissive girls... until they start saying things like, "i guess i'm just too intelligent/spirited/lively/blahblah to ever be a slave."  *scowls*

becca

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 6:59:20 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
Status: offline 		My only problem is people bringing up the slave vs sub debate 5 times a day.

_____________________________

I am KarbonCopy's signature

(in reply to VvShadowspawnvV)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 7:09:46 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

My only problem is people bringing up the slave vs sub debate 5 times a day.


The words have lost all meaning...but people need something to write about.

I personal like the sub vs hero debate myself...with a dash of sub vs grinder thrown in for fun!

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 7:22:45 PM   
quietkitten


Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		How about the sub vs wrap debate??

_____________________________

The number 1 cause of stress is reality.

I miss my old Avatar :(

<< I am a depressed procrastinator with Alzheimers -- I am going to end it all.... tomorrow... or the next day.

Now what was I talking about again?

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 7:28:21 PM   
hidemyeyes


Posts: 39
Joined: 11/29/2005
Status: offline 		Defensiveness? i'm pretty new to all this but maybe its about wanting to be all we can for our Dominants. It could be threatening to think someone out there is seen as giving more to thier Dominant (slaves)  or that other people out there have more to give to thier Dominants in terms of personality (submissives). Please understand that i do not agree with either position and i'm just hazarding a guess. But everyone does seem defensive about this issue.

i tried to become a slave, and it wasnt my 'liveliness, intelligence or spirit' that got in the way, indeed my Master would have appreciated all these things had he collared me. What i found is that i lacked the discipline within myself to commit to anything 24/7, and indeed even the desire to do so. i value 'me' time too much: my own space, my own decisions, being able to pick up and run to the ocean whenever i need to feel it at my feet. i dont think that makes me any less submissive towards the Dominant i am with now.

________________________________________________________________________
hidemyeyes

vice is its own reward
 q crisp

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 7:31:06 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		xenophobia.

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 7:43:02 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

My only problem is people bringing up the slave vs sub debate 5 times a day.


I like would like to duplicate KarbonCopy's answer.  Would that be repetitive or redundant?  hee, hee... 

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to KarbonCopy)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 7:45:33 PM   
TallDarkAndWitty


Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead
Would that be repetitive or redundant?  hee, hee... 


For that answer, you would need to submit a request to the Department of Redundancy Department, in duplicate, of course...

Taggard


_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.


My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 8:26:00 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead
Would that be repetitive or redundant?  hee, hee... 


For that answer, you would need to submit a request to the Department of Redundancy Department, in duplicate, of course...

Taggard



Does it have to be double spaced?  What about margins?  Any particular color paper?  Who gets the pink copy?  Is there a pink copy?  I just don't want my request to be returned with a "Rejected as to Format" stamp on it... 

(bites nails...  no wait, just got nails done!  bites Taggard's nails!)

~ DR 

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 9:46:47 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline 		~chuckles softly~  i appologize.  i am new to these discussion forums and had not realized that this question had been posed quite as often.  i was merely attempting to open an interesting debate.

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 9:50:39 PM   
quietkitten


Posts: 1082
Joined: 2/5/2005
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Everyone was new here once. Some days it's easy to forget that and go on a major snark when a sense of humor would serve the purpose.



_____________________________

The number 1 cause of stress is reality.

I miss my old Avatar :(

<< I am a depressed procrastinator with Alzheimers -- I am going to end it all.... tomorrow... or the next day.

Now what was I talking about again?

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 9:58:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have great respect for slaves and their masters. I am not one but I have respect for them. I have different needs then they have. My needs are not superior or inferior to theirs, they are just different. I have no value judgment about it. I know there are many vanilla women that would look at my needs and ridicule them, but to each their own.

I have slave type fantasies, but I know I am unsuitable to the reality of slavery. I understand some of the desire to submit so completely at once, but it is not my path to take... At least not for now. I am not going to say I would never refer to myself as a slave, but I do not think it is for me at this time.

I hope most of the rest posting here feel the same way, it is not a rivalry, or at least it shouldn't be. That is as ignorant as saying being a teacher is not as good as being a nurse, both caretake, just in different ways, Not every dominate wants a slave or sub, so there is someone for everyone out there.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 10:08:51 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		sub/slave.... tomato.. tatmato... potato... patato...

LOL.. it's all who is saying it...


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 10:27:26 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

~chuckles softly~  i appologize.  i am new to these discussion forums and had not realized that this question had been posed quite as often.  i was merely attempting to open an interesting debate.

*Introduces genvieve to the search button*

"genvieve,  search-button. Search -button, genvieve." ;)

0

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 10:36:45 PM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

i have been in the lifestyle for some time now and have come across far too  much conflict between the slave and submissive sides of the lifestyle.
 
It is either that the submissive is saying "Oh, well the slave is just a robot" or the slave saying "you are not a true submissive until you are a slave" and i have to wonder...where is this conflict coming from?
 
Why do we feel the need to attack other's form of lifestyle?  i personally have lots of slave friends... Gorean and otherwise, and i admire their choice...but it's just not for me.
 
So, this is my question, i believe.
 
Where does the conflict come from?  Why do we feel the need to add D/s, M/s hiererarchy? 


They are all labels. With personal definitions. Some people get very territorial over how they define these words and others well are simply caught in the cross fire. Like any gathering of 1000plus people you will have conflict even about basic things such as if the sky is blue.
 
In the end it doesn't matter to me how someone else defines those words. It matters how I define them and how they work into my life.
 
Blessed Be
 
Nika{Phoenix}

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."



(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 11:08:41 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: genvieve

~chuckles softly~  i appologize.  i am new to these discussion forums and had not realized that this question had been posed quite as often.  i was merely attempting to open an interesting debate.

*Introduces genvieve to the search button*

"genvieve,  search-button. Search -button, genvieve." ;)

0


~dark eyes glittering at this new found toy~  Oooooo...shiney.  ~bouncing around and using it again and again and again~

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/1/2006 11:18:29 PM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

sub/slave.... tomato.. tatmato... potato... patato...

LOL.. it's all who is saying it...




Cake...

_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/2/2006 12:54:18 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Where does the conflict come from?  Why do we feel the need to add D/s, M/s hiererarchy? 
 
It's internal mostly. People in general can spend a lot of time searching for the 'meaning of life' and when we find something which speaks to us, we tend to embrace it with the very core of our beings. When it's not acknowledged, we can get defensive and accusatory, not because we think it's better than everyone else, but because it's hard to imagine our own lives any differently. Human perspective comes from personal experiences so if we don't have an experience, it's much harder to exhibit empathy with it. The result is conflict. As someone who fought tooth and nail against the very idea of slaves walking this Earth, it was very hard for me to see past the 'word' itself much less be able to embrace it as a choice for someone else.. that is until Himself informed me that despite my protests, it was a truth for me. I never thought of myself as a slave until I realized after several years of being owned by Master that I had indeed become that which I had protested against for so long. If others cannot or will not accept it, it just doesn't matter and I can't say as I would blame anyone for not accepting it considering my own strong feelings in this regard for almost 20 years.  I've been through a process without, really, realizing that's exactly what it was.. and this is where I've come to. Maybe tomorrow I'll evolve into something else. Who knows? The future remains forever mutable, just waiting for discovery. I like to think I face it head on with hope for growth.
 
Celeste

edit to fix typos

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 5/2/2006 1:04:02 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to genvieve)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: slave versus submissive - 5/2/2006 1:01:11 AM   
ServiceNTucson


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

My only problem is people bringing up the slave vs sub debate 5 times a day.


I like would like to duplicate KarbonCopy's answer.  Would that be repetitive or redundant?  hee, hee... 


Not only would it be both repetitive and redundant, but repetitious as well.

_____________________________

Harry

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx


www.desertdominion.org

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
Profile   Post #: 20
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